Dawn mentioned in season 4!

[NxD_Slayerette]

i didnt relise this, everyone was going on about how the were liek "wtf?" when she came but in "this year's girl" the dreamy bit with faith and buffy dawn is metioned.... i didnt know thsi!

[KingofCretins]

Actually, Dawn's arrival is indicated in Buffy's and Faith's dreams in "Graduation, Part II", "This Year's Girl", *and* "Restless".

In "Graduation, Part II", in their shared dream...

Buffy looking down: "There's something I'm supposed to be doing."
Faith: "Oh yeah. - Miles to go - Little Ms. Muffet counting down from 7-3-0."
Buffy grimaces: "Great. - Riddles."

Little Miss Muffet is Dawn -- one of the crazies even calls her that in "Real Me". 7-3-0 has two meanings -- first is as an arbitrary sign of Dawn's arrival (I'll mention this again in "Restless"), second is that 730 is the number of days in two years -- two years after "Graduation, Part II" is when Buffy saves Dawn in "The Gift".

You mentioned "This Year's Girl", which is actually Faith's dream, oddly enough.

Buffy's dream in "Restless" includes Dawn references in Buffy's first encounter with Tara.

BUFFY: No. (Looks confused) No. I think they need me to find them.
(Shot of the digital alarm clock next to the bed, showing 7:30 AM.)
BUFFY: (upset) It's so late.
TARA: Oh ... that clock's completely wrong. Here.
(Shot of Tara's hands holding out the Tarot card "Manus" (the hands). It
has a picture of two hands crossed, one open, the other balled into a fist.)
BUFFY: I'm never gonna use those.
(Buffy's face in profile. Tara's face out of focus in background.)
TARA: You think you know ... what's to come ... what you are. You haven't
even begun.
(Shot of the bed, now neatly made.)
(Buffy frowns.)
BUFFY: I think I need to go find the others.
(She leaves.)
TARA (softly) Be back before dawn.

Here, Buffy is seeing the actually sign of Dawn's arrival -- the clock at 7:30. The time is completely wrong... but Dawn's not there yet. Still coming.

Also, it's fairly clear that Dream Tara's line should be heard and read as "Be back before Dawn", rather than dawn.

[Jenni Lou]

Haha, I was going to reply in here with soe other interesting tidbits but KoC has gotten them for you! Soooo many cool references to Dawn as early as the end of season three. It's one of those cool things you only realize after you have watched the series once through and go for a rewatch.

But that's awesome that the series was so layered. You can see Joss had plans put in action long before they became real stories.

[Kold]

Little Miss Muffet is Dawn -- one of the crazies even calls her that in "Real Me". 7-3-0 has two meanings -- first is as an arbitrary sign of Dawn's arrival (I'll mention this again in "Restless"), second is that 730 is the number of days in two years -- two years after "Graduation, Part II" is when Buffy saves Dawn in "The Gift".

Actually, I saw Glory as being Little Miss Muffet, the time and place as being the tuffet and Dawn as being curds and whey (ergo Buffy is the spider, maybe).

7-3-0 is more likely counting down the days until Glory has to have the Key, which will soon turn out to be Dawn. In "Real Me" the crazy called her "curds and whey", and in "No Place Like Home" Glory says "someone just has to sit down on their tuffet and make this screaming stop".

I suppose it could be taken either way.

[NileQT87]

"little miss muffet" is definitely dawn. and the 7-3-0 refers to how many days until buffy dies.

[Kold]

"little miss muffet" is definitely dawn. and the 7-3-0 refers to how many days until buffy dies.

The rhyme can easily be taken to refer to Dawn or Glory as Little Miss Muffet"... how would you connect the rhyme to the plot developments?

And I don't necessarily agree that 7 - 3 - 0 refers to Buffy's death... I saw Buffy's death as a fairly unprecedented action. Sure the guide had implied to her that her own death could avert Dawn's, but I don't think a choice like that is going to be prophecised so far in advance by Buffy and Faith. Keep in mind that this was before Dawn had been created, so neither of them, nor anyone (not even the Monks, truthfully) could know that Buffy would react as strongly and as willfully as she did to save Dawn, considering all her previous actions.

And that is hardly a discussion post.

[vampmogs]

The rhyme can easily be taken to refer to Dawn or Glory as Little Miss Muffet"... how would you connect the rhyme to the plot developments?

And I don't necessarily agree that 7 - 3 - 0 refers to Buffy's death... I saw Buffy's death as a fairly unprecedented action. Sure the guide had implied to her that her own death could avert Dawn's, but I don't think a choice like that is going to be prophecised so far in advance by Buffy and Faith. Keep in mind that this was before Dawn had been created, so neither of them, nor anyone (not even the Monks, truthfully) could know that Buffy would react as strongly and as willfully as she did to save Dawn, considering all her previous actions.

And that is hardly a discussion post.

This is what Wikipedia had to say;

In the Buffy/Faith dream, we encounter the first foreshadowing of Buffy's death at the end of Season 5. Faith's comment, "Little Miss Muffet counting down from 7-3-0", comes (roughly) 2 years (730 days) before Buffy dies. The term "Little Miss Muffet" is a reference to Dawn's arrival. A crazy man also refers to "curds and whey" when he accosts Dawn in "Real Me". Glory also makes references to "sitting on a tuffet" when she goes looking for the key during Season 5. Also exactly one year from this episode ("restless") during Buffy's dream she sees a clock in her room which reads 7:30, which Tara tells her is completely wrong, as one whole year has passed.

I'm pretty sure Joss has confirmed 7 3 0 was meant to be 730 days until Buffy's death and 'little miss muffet' as a reference to Dawn.

[kana]

"That was the exact number of days until the 100th episode and Little Miss Muffet was going to be Dawn"

That was what SMG said that Joss told her, so yes Little Miss Muffet is Dawn.

[amy1234]

omg some cool facts there I never knew theres was loads of planning to the story of dawn before she actually arrives, thats so cool!You learn something new everyday!

[KingofCretins]

Well, Season 5 is the most unique of all Buffy televised seasons, because Joss broke the story for the season arc during Season 3, rather than during or near the end of Season 4, which is more customary. So he had the luxury of building various easter eggs about Dawn and other plot points for Season 5 into Season 4. Which is awesome, because it helps Season 5 take on a more mythic quality, even a destined or prophetic one, that Season 1 didn't manage, even though Season 1 was the only season that was ostensibly dealing with prophecies and destiny.

[NxD_Slayerette]

wow guys, i never knew any of this! its really cool tho im borrowing season 4 hopefully tomorrow off this girl i know, if she remembers lol, im not really sure if i enjoyed season 4 much lol but i remeber there were clues like dawns about buffy, in restless and season 5... i cant remember what tho!

but i didn't know Joss went as far back as season 3 for Dawn, i was watching Grad day 2 a couple days ago, and i remember being confused about the riddley bit! i did love that scene with faith tho! it was just perfect to end it, IMO.