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  • Amy

    I was watching 'The Killler in Me' last night, and got to thinking about Amy- where did she go wrong? Is she evil, or just misunderstood?

    Does she have a right to hold a grudge against Willow, or is she out of her mind if she thinks Willow has any obligation to her?

    Is the Amy we meet in the comics true to the character we met in season one of Buffy?

    I just felt like she has been taken almost a little too far- I get that she has problems, but I don't get why Willow gets the blame for all her problems?


  • #2
    This would probably fit better in the season8 forum because all the stuff I have to say concerns it
    Going from season 7 alone, it just seemed like Amy was an irresponsible witch, with a grudge against Willow for turning her back on her. I think it's easier to see more into it when you see what's going on in the new season.

    Spoiler:
    It makes a lot more sense now that Willow would have it out for Amy, while Warren is also behind the hex that happens.. otherwise just seemed like she was being petty to me.
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    • #3
      I think it is very much in her power. Amy was said to have went insane down in the Hellmouth, feasting on anyone else who managed to survive and being kept there for at least a year and a half. She isn't herself in that respect, but from even what we'd seen of her she seemed to be very petty towards Willow and the power she had. Amy wanted that power, Amy worked for that power and she could never reach Willow's strength, and remember it is all about power

      I liked in season eight how she was shown the face of her mother and froze up, it showed a different side to her. A side that shows no matter how dark she may have got she still doesn't want to end up like her mother.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by kanga View Post
        This would probably fit better in the season8 forum because all the stuff I have to say concerns it
        Yes. I am moving it there now.
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        • #5
          This is really intresting. Like vampmogs said, it is about power. Amy was a witch long before Willow did, and I think it made her mad and jealous that Willow got so much powerfull and even got forgiven after allmost bringing the world to an end. I think it goes far back.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by omri View Post
            This is really intresting. Like vampmogs said, it is about power. Amy was a witch long before Willow did, and I think it made her mad and jealous that Willow got so much powerfull and even got forgiven after allmost bringing the world to an end. I think it goes far back.
            In terms of forgiveness, that makes me wonder too, what the reaction was that Amy got when she saw her dad after being a rat for three years- she was nervy about going home to see him, and very clear on the 'not where, how I got there'.

            Seems to me like Amy was stuck in a bit of a middle ground- not powerful enough to not care, not powerless enough to be innocent, maybe the way her dad wanted her to be.

            I do think she scapegoats Willow though, blames her unnecessarily. I don't want to get too fanwanky here, or too much of a fanficcy shipper who must pair everyone up, but I do wonder how deep her feelings for Willow go- they hung out in junior high, but not so much in high school- friendly, but Willow's best friend role was always reserved for Buffy- who rejected who?

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            • #7
              I'm not sure her and Willow were ever supposed to be great best friends. They hung out a little in Junior High but it always appeared that before Buffy showed up Willow/Xander and Jesse seemed to be the best buds. Amy had a friendship with the warlock kid (sorry completely have forgotten his name at the moment) and did a spell with Willow in 'Gingerbread' only to help her out really. I'm not sure they were ever really great friends, so I'm not sure Willow rejected her in that sense up until s6 when she had a right to do so after Amy's "birthday present."

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              • #8
                Yeah, the blink-and-you-miss-him baby goth from "Gingerbread". His name was Michael, and he was never mentioned before or again after that episode. He was kinda like that Simpsons joke, where the guy lived next door and everyone knew who he was?

                I think Amy came up as a plausible love interest for Xander based on their doing the spell together, but, eh. She never felt like she had much closer of a meaningful tie to the scoobies than did, say, Jonathan.
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                • #9
                  Well... I can see how someone would have a reasonable amount of resentment after being stuck as a rat for 3 years.. although I'm not sure she really thought as a rat 'come on Willow change me back..' But she did have the 'finally!' look on her face in season 4 when she was changed back.
                  I didn't like how they took her character to the evil place, and are taking it. Would have been cool to see Amy on the good guy side, liked her in the Witch, and up to Gingerbread.
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                  • #10
                    I sometimes feel Amy's behaviour feels a bit forced, that is, forced on her by the writers (if that makes sense). She doesn't quite flow as a character. Her motives are all believable, but there's something about the way she's written that feels too clunky and obvious. However, accepting her the way she's written, with all its "these are my motivations, let me show you them" (tell not show style)?her relationship with her mother seems to explain a lot of how she behaves to Willow.

                    I liked in season eight how she was shown the face of her mother and froze up, it showed a different side to her. A side that shows no matter how dark she may have got she still doesn't want to end up like her mother.
                    Yes, given how her ma treated her (stealing her BODY!), then losing that mother (sucked into a statue!), it's reasonable to expect her to be supremely fcked up, and that that fcked upness would all be connected to women and power. Willow was, like her mother, a powerful witch, and someone who commanded attention ? "everyone just cares about cute, sweet willow", much like everybody liked her popular cheerleader mother (well, perhaps they feared her rather than liked her, but she was still the centre of things).

                    So, it seems to me that she's projecting her mommy issues onto Willow. And, because she realises in season 6 that she can't keep up with willow, perhaps she wants to bring her down, to corrupt her so she won't be the great lovely wonderful Willow any more. In season 7, when she comes back, it feels clunky, especially the way she explains it to Kennedy ? all very mwahahaha evil villainess, not very realistic in terms of how people actually talk. But still, she doesn't want revenge on Willow, it's not about what Willow did to her?as I see it, it's about what her mother did to her, and how she finds powerful women frightening. It can't have helped that Willow had power over her body like her mother did?and failed to give her her real body back.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
                      Yeah, the blink-and-you-miss-him baby goth from "Gingerbread". His name was Michael, and he was never mentioned before or again after that episode. He was kinda like that Simpsons joke, where the guy lived next door and everyone knew who he was?
                      They mentioned him again in 'Consequences' during the akward couch scene between Buffy and Willow when Willow says she is meeting with Michael to try an de-rat Amy but apart from that, yeah I completely agree. He shows up, apparently everyone knows him and he is in the magic scene then he's gone again.

                      I think Amy came up as a plausible love interest for Xander based on their doing the spell together, but, eh. She never felt like she had much closer of a meaningful tie to the scoobies than did, say, Jonathan.
                      Agreed. I think Amy and Willow were friends before highschool but as it usually happens, it didn't really last in a major way and they turned into friendly aquaintances instead.

                      Originally posted by Wolfie Gilmore View Post
                      Yes, given how her ma treated her (stealing her BODY!), then losing that mother (sucked into a statue!), it's reasonable to expect her to be supremely fcked up, and that that fcked upness would all be connected to women and power. Willow was, like her mother, a powerful witch, and someone who commanded attention ? "everyone just cares about cute, sweet willow", much like everybody liked her popular cheerleader mother (well, perhaps they feared her rather than liked her, but she was still the centre of things).
                      Good connection there, I like it. Willow is in the spotlight just like her mum was, and Amy was always told by her mother how useless she was, how she was wasting her youth. Magic was probably a way for Amy to feel like she was gaining her power back, that she could be the centre of attention and take control of her life but Willow out shone her on that, and it evidently stung quite a bit.

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                      • #12
                        I really don't remember Michael Czajak. Was Gingerbread his only appearence? What did he look like? Did he have any lines? I'd like to incorperate him into a fanfic about Amy.



                        I really feel sorry for Amy. She's had such a messed up life, no wonder she turned out the way she did. She was abused by her mother for years, then forced to spend three years as a rat. Then she got hooked on dark magic and nobody really cared. Then to top it all off she had to spend a year trapped under the ruins of Sunnydale feeding off human corpses!

                        I hope her character can somehow be redeemed. She's just as much a victim of circumstance as Faith.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Vampire in Rug View Post
                          I really don't remember Michael Czajak. Was Gingerbread his only appearence? What did he look like? Did he have any lines? I'd like to incorperate him into a fanfic about Amy.
                          He was a skinny gothic kid heavy on the eyeliner and yup that was his only appearence, though he was mentioned again in 'Consequences.'

                          I really feel sorry for Amy. She's had such a messed up life, no wonder she turned out the way she did. She was abused by her mother for years, then forced to spend three years as a rat. Then she got hooked on dark magic and nobody really cared. Then to top it all off she had to spend a year trapped under the ruins of Sunnydale feeding off human corpses!

                          I hope her character can somehow be redeemed. She's just as much a victim of circumstance as Faith.
                          I agree. However, I don't have any more sympathy towards Amy than I did Faith when it came to the bad choices both have made. It is horrible both characters, in this case Amy, had such a horrible life. However, it doesn't excuse anything Amy is doing, Buffy had a hard life too but she never did any of this. I'm not saying your excusing her, just voicing my opinion

                          Though in saying that, hasn't Amy gone a little crazy after being trapped under the Hellmouth so that is at least a reasonable excuse for her behaviour. Though it was said that Faith was a little crazy by some characters, though never established as correct or not.

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                          • #14
                            I hope they take her character back to the good side of the force. Was anyone else wondering what happened to Amy's mum being trapped in the statue... like when the school blew up.. was she set free? When Sunnydale collapsed was she set free then? Or is she dead, and was it just her spirit that was sucked into the statue. Kind of leaves an opening in my opinion.. although I suppose we know that Amy is really Amy by her expression when her mum appeared in the LWH. And I may have over thought this
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by kanga View Post
                              I hope they take her character back to the good side of the force. Was anyone else wondering what happened to Amy's mum being trapped in the statue... like when the school blew up.. was she set free? When Sunnydale collapsed was she set free then? Or is she dead, and was it just her spirit that was sucked into the statue. Kind of leaves an opening in my opinion.. although I suppose we know that Amy is really Amy by her expression when her mum appeared in the LWH. And I may have over thought this
                              I've often wondered that even before we had season eight. I wasn't sure wether or not if the trophy was destroyed her spirit was released, though I've ruled out in my own head any ideas of her taking over Amy. It'd be interesting if she does resurface though, but I highly doubt it. Though I'm actually surprised Joss had even given a great deal of thought about her mum seeing how long ago it was that she appeared, and has made an effort to talk about and show her quite a lot in the first arc. Perhaps he is planning on bringing her back? Though it is doubtful.

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                              • #16
                                The trophy may not necissarily be destroyed. It might be intact amongst other peices of junk and rubble at the bottom of the Hellmouth.

                                I'm thinking that destroying the trophy would either re-corporialize Catherine back to her human body, or it would kill her.

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                                • #17
                                  I thought the character of Amy had an interesting metaphor.

                                  Here's how she's presented:
                                  Amy is the daughter of a witch, which influenced her to become a witch herself (thinking she needed magic to solve her problems). She then became addicted to magic and pulled Willow down her path. Willow eventually recovered (with the help of friends), however Amy, being alone, did not. Abandoned from Willow, Amy's addiction grew stronger and sabotaged her.

                                  What's the metaphor?
                                  Re-read what I wrote - however, replace "witch" with "drunk", "magic" with "alcohol."
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                                  • #18
                                    Excellent analysis. And, actually more coherent and less anvilicious than the magic-as-drug-addiction metaphor of Season 6 viewed inclusively.

                                    It'll probably be 2008 or 2009 before we see Amy and Warren again, so I have trouble concentrating on this thread, but I would like to see Amy eventually brought back. She was dealt a crappy hand -- even though she was trying to turn *other* people into rats when she got herself, she was doing so in self-defense. Willow didn't seem to consider trying to turn her back as a matter of daily importance, which is pretty callous. She was in a pretty bad spot to try to adhere to a sense of good when she turned human again.
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