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It's Not Time For You Yet (Spike in S7)

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  • It's Not Time For You Yet (Spike in S7)

    Maybe I'm just moving in the wrong circles. A lot of people, apparently, seem baffled by the First's claims about Spike in Season Seven of Buffy. They want to know what the big deal was. What was it the First had planned? Just what was it that it wasn't time for yet?

    I suppose I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I figured it out a long time ago. What's the First got in mind for Spike? Well, here's a question: why is it dropping hints? For that matter, why in the same episode does it tell Wood who killed his mother? Is that clear enough for you? Okay, I'll say it right out--the First wants Spike dead. Duh!

    Spike is necessary to closing the Hellmouth. Oh, Angel might have done it, but that would have been disastrous in its own right. The First isn't being sloppy with information when it claims to have a plan for Spike later; it's trying to get him killed. And it comes dangerously close to succeeding when Wood takes matters into his own hands. But almost anyone could have done it with the right circumstances--Buffy, Giles, Xander, Willow. About the only character who couldn't possibly have done it would be Andrew, who's ineffectual at just about everything.

    And in case you were wondering--that's why the First programmed Spike, too. Did all those extra vamps do anything useful? Not really. The whole point of the exercise was to get the Scoobies to off him. But they didn't--they treated him like a person. They chained him up to protect others, but went to the trouble of trying to cure him instead. Thus, the hints, and thus, the revelation to Wood. After that went sour, the First focused on other things, like trying to get the gathered Potentials killed--note it's the very next episode that Caleb arrives in town.

    But why not just kill Spike directly, instead of going to all that trouble with the trigger? Well, the main difference is in what the Scoobies think. If the First is seen to want Spike dead, that immediately opens the question of why? The Scoobies don't know for sure Spike is of any importance until Angel shows up with the amulet; presumably the First, on the other hand, knew all along. Tipping its hand opens the possibility that the Scoobies will find another way. At best, Angel would probably volunteer--the amulet would allow him to be restored as Spike was; some matters involving Wolfram and Hart would be more complicated, but not totally unworkable. In theory, if they knew it was absolutely necessary, the Scoobies could also find another vampire to ensoul. By fooling the Scoobies into doing the work, the First leaves them totally in the dark.

    No Spike--no closing of the Hellmouth. He's an important guy.
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  • #2
    It's an interesting theory, but a flawed one, Mabus.

    The reason being that, even if the First needed intermediaries, it didn't need the Scoobies to do it. It could have killed Spike at any time in the couple days he was in the First's direct control in its cave with the Turok-Han beating on it. It seemed more interest in trying to break him. It's even plausible it could have sent any number of bringers to kill him in the school basement if that was it's plan.

    Even the context of the title to your thread -- the First said it wasn't time for Spike, yet, in the context of being asked why not activate his trigger to kill a bunch of potentials. The implication, throughout the scene, was the First expected to have Spike in its pocket, either as a weapon or a tool, and "First Date", when the question was asked, was basically the last time it came up. Just shameful.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
      Even the context of the title to your thread -- the First said it wasn't time for Spike, yet, in the context of being asked why not activate his trigger to kill a bunch of potentials. The implication, throughout the scene, was the First expected to have Spike in its pocket, either as a weapon or a tool, and "First Date", when the question was asked, was basically the last time it came up. Just shameful.
      I'm not sure of all the details, and there may indeed be sloppy writing involved. But part of what I thought I had explained is that the implication in that scene was a plant--the First wants the Scoobies to think it will use Spike against them.
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      • #4
        Interesting theory, Lee, but it doesn't dramatically satisfy. If it came to the end and all was revealed that the First wanted Spike dead...well, that's just a bit of a damp squib. Unless it wanted him to die in some very specific way that would have a consequence that would contribute to its plan. Say, if the death of a souled vampire unleashed some kind of apocalyptic energy, with the force of the soul and body ripping apart doing something powerful and mystical.

        As it played out on screen, the First's use of Spike just played as vague and as if the writers hadn't reallly thought it through other than "let's get Spike topless and in chains a bunch of times".


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        • #5
          lol, well Spike topless is always a winner
          I'm still bit confused about what the plan was for Spike as well.. but I dont know, maybe when they had him hostage they didn't kill him because they were hoping to turn him to their side once the ubervamp killed Buffy and he lost all hope etc. I'm assuming the writers didn't really think it all the way through either.
          Like at the end of I Only Have Eyes for You, Spike gets out of his wheelchair, like he has stuff planned to mess with Angelus.. but yeah not so much.
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          • #6
            I always thought that The First was every person's dark side, including fears, insecurities, frustrations and hidden desires. Not a metaphor of dark side, but literal dark side. And this dark side wanted to consume, to "devour" the personality, to make him fall. That's why the First wanted Spike to kill. It's the dark side of every vampire.

            As to "It's Not Time For You Yet" in FD, it's either the result of Spike's own insecurity or the result of Andrew's fears about him. Spike is afraid that The First will use him again (that's why he tries to stay chained in the basement). Spike has already fed on Andrew and the boy is afraid it happens again. His fear transforms into The First's ominous words.
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            Last edited by Moscow Watcher; 18-03-11, 10:46 AM.

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            • #7
              The way I saw it is that is wasn't simply about Spike but using Spike to divide the group with upshot of his possible death. Spike's important but then so is Willow, Buffy Xander etc. Using Spike and goading Buffy to the Vineyard was playing on Buffy's strengths and turning them into weaknesses.

              Everything that happened as result of Spike's trigger being revealed, Wood and Giles duplicity and Buffy's mistrust and in turn Giles mistrust of Buffy's judgement was all ok with the First. It was all these events and more that led to people not trusting her judgement and taking the role of leadership away from them. I actually think the the First thought that the group as a whole was the big threat, not simply Spike.

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              • #8
                Yeah I agree, evidently it had concerns about others in the group and not just Spike. As Wood says to Faith, it only shows itself to someone when it thinks they matter, when they are in the game. It obviously wanted Willow out of the picture for good or at least to stop using magic, no surprises why given her magic in the end is one of the very things that brings about the First's downfall. It obviously saw the importance in Xander, as Caleb knew all about him, the man "who sees everything" and couldn't have if the First hadn't explained who and what Xander was. And then of course it sees Buffy and Faith as a massive threat as well, sending someone to kill Faith in prison over on Ats and then attempting to blow her up in 'Touched/End of Days.'

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