Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Why Giles? And Wesley?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Why Giles? And Wesley?

    Okay, I've had a thought... now, in one of the season three eps (Faith, Hope and Trick I think) Faith says she comes to Sunnydale because she's snuck off while her watcher's away on some retreat in the Cotswalds(?) and Giles says that it's a great honour to be invited... or so he's heard, and that he was not invited...

    In Helpless, Traver's treated Giles like dirt... in Checkpoint, it's much the same. Later, Wesley, too, is fired...

    If these two guys are the scum of the watchers' council... why did they get assigned slayers? Why weren't Buffy and Faith entrusted to watchers who had more cred? If the slayer is the instrument, why would the council have given the most powerful weapon it had into the hands of people they had contempt for?


  • #2
    I always had a feeling that the watchers invited to the retreat were the elite watchers, those that were known through their name rather than by reputation. As for instance, the watchers on the board of the council like Travers.

    In terms of treating them both like dirt, well I don't think this really happened until both of them screwed up or challeneged the council's authority. Travers seemed civil with Giles at the beginning of Helpless but as Giles let his feelings get in the way, Travers disliked him more. This dislike continued on throughout Checkpoint because Giles appeared to be exactly the same, and well.. fired. Though the stuffy Giles we knew when he first began as Buffy's Watcher wasn't something the Council would have had a problem with, so as of then there was no reason for them not to put him as watcher of a slayer.

    Wes also was head boy before becoming a watcher and pretty much knew nearly any text off by heart, he was poncy and stuffy and didn't let his emotions get in the way. He was like the Council's poster boy, and one I personally would expect them to put in a position as watcher. Though, as Wes says in Ats, he had two slayers under his command and one ended up evil and in a coma and the other a renegade. This is hardly to score him many points with the council, which is why they fired him because he did pretty much screw up what he was sent there to do.

    So yeah, when they first appointed as Watchers of the slayers both weren't the scum of the council, both were stuffy opressed with a vast knowledge of the demon world and capable of managing a slayer. However, both failed the council in their own way whilst fufilling their duties which resulted in the council treating them like scum.

    ~ Banner by Nina ~

    Comment


    • #3
      giles and wesley were respected until the way they were with their slayers.

      giles at the beginning, if you remember, had taken on the guise of a high school librarian who just wanted buffy to understand her duty and do it. he just ended up having feelings for her and realizing she wasn't the type to go by a handbook. remember giles cringing when buffy was showing him her cheerleading outfit or playing loud work-out music. he had his rebellious side, but the council probably thought that was long gone and he was now a middle-aged watcherly-type despite it. of course, he ended up being somewhat of a surrogate father to buffy instead of just a helpful scholar who hands out missions.

      wesley was originally the quintessential watcher. or possibly because of some of the lack of success with the watchers' council's old ideas, they sent wesley as a fresh face. remember, wesley was head boy at the watcher's academy and was MUCH more of a walking encyclopedia than giles was. despite his father having a low opinion of him, he was a total brain with no experience when he was sent. the council probably thought that was better than being more like giles, where he had a bit more experience and less of a book-smart style. they probably expected wesley to be a perfect all-business watcher.

      wesley couldn't get respect at first because the two slayers at the time weren't kendra. they were buffy and faith, neither of which had been raised by watchers and indoctrinated by the council policies, and neither of them were traditional slayers. faith wasn't even stable on the side of good.

      wesley came into a situation that he couldn't win in, and he was too fresh and too much of a bureaucratic bookworm, that he came into a situation that already had a lot of baggage.

      who knows, maybe the council thought one of their new young, but stiff and non-giles-like watchers would be able to take over better than sending a seasoned council member. they probably didn't expect that the wesley we first met had the potential for a dark side or that he'd become part of the anti-council along with both slayers and giles. not to mention, wesley joining angel (the council probably saw angelus and angel still as the same, regardless)--i don't think the council could have foreseen that without knowledge of what would happen if nobody took wesley seriously in sunnydale. and of course, angel's group was the place for the outcasts, some just because they knew the score, but had no place to go.
      Last edited by NileQT87; 11-09-07, 09:42 AM.

      "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
      "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

      Comment


      • #4
        Uhmm, didn't we find out afterwards that Faith's Watcher was actually killed, and that's why she left town. I don't think there ever was a retreat for which to be invited.

        With regards to their abilities to do their job when they were appointed, I believe what the others have said about they seemed perfect at the time. I also believe that the Council has very little interest in how difficult the life of a watcher is, and how hard it must be for them to help a slayer do her job and her to ultimately die for it, without getting emotionally involved. IMO that's why they're mostly British (we're supposed to grin and bear it when things go massively wrong - the stiff upper lip is what we're world famous for, isn't it?). It seems obvious that the Council, didn't really care when a watcher was worried for his slayer, unless it interfered with their plans for her, and then when it did - ceremoniously dump them without a second thought. Maybe there is a clause in their contract or something?
        sigpic

        Peter Capaldi is the 12th Doctor

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ciderdrinker View Post
          Uhmm, didn't we find out afterwards that Faith's Watcher was actually killed, and that's why she left town. I don't think there ever was a retreat for which to be invited.
          Giles had heard about the retreat before so one had to have existed for him to hear about it and be jealous that he wasn't invited.

          I'm not entirley sure how Faith knew about it, perhaps her Watcher had mentioned it before, or was supposed to go on it before Kakistos killed her. However, Giles states that the retreat takes place every year so one did exist, only Faith's Watcher wasn't on it.

          ~ Banner by Nina ~

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by vampmogs View Post
            Giles had heard about the retreat before so one had to have existed for him to hear about it and be jealous that he wasn't invited.

            I'm not entirley sure how Faith knew about it, perhaps her Watcher had mentioned it before, or was supposed to go on it before Kakistos killed her. However, Giles states that the retreat takes place every year so one did exist, only Faith's Watcher wasn't on it.
            My point was more that Faith made it up that her watcher was on the retreat, and that whether or not it was held annually, it may have not been happening at that time at all - it was just an lie to cover up for the fact that she had run away from Kakistos when she saw her watcher being killed. I guess, logically, she must have known about it to mention it in the first place!

            Sure Giles would be jealous that he was never invited to an annual event for watchers that was deemed as "a great honour", but that doesn't necessarily mean that he was rubbish in the Council's eyes - just not one of the favoured elite (something that happens in every business/company and rarely has anything to do with abilites) and perhaps he was being sarcastic about it!
            sigpic

            Peter Capaldi is the 12th Doctor

            Comment


            • #7
              he wasn't invited because quentin was probably already suspecting that giles was getting too close and fatherly to buffy--which went directly against council rules. also, remember kendra's reaction to giles and buffy's unorthodox style and situation. buffy didn't give up her life to become a weapon. it's very possible that kendra or sam zabuta might have reported something.

              what we do know is that quentin likely suspected that giles was too close, otherwise he might not have been so eager to fire him in helpless. it seemed like he saw giles' failure during the cruciamentum as one of many violations--an excuse to get rid of him.

              giles started going outside of council-style duties back in the witch.

              perhaps the window in between what's my line?, pt. 2 and becoming, pt. 2 involved kendra telling her watcher about how buffy and her friends--something not allowed--rescued a vampire who used to be angelus. we don't know if information like that might have been passed between kendra, zabuta and the council.

              or perhaps quentin and the elite council members were getting annoyed with the kind of information they were getting from giles about buffy. or hey, how about the whole buffy/angel thing. i'm sure that would be considered an embarrassment to the council--and they'd probably look down on giles for not putting a stop to it immediately.

              from roger's robot, we learned (and can guess) that part of the shame roger had with wesley was that he had befriended and was working with a vampire. quentin and roger probably had a lot of similar council views.

              to start with, buffy having friends and family in the know and going to school wasn't even council policy. to the council she was probably a rogue just for that.

              remember wesley's early reaction to buffy having a whole bunch of people filing through the library who all knew she was the slayer. and remember how quentin and the council came in during checkpoint and made a point of interrogating all of the extended scoobies. obviously, they had a problem with that.

              it's not surprising that doing things like cooperating with/being in love with vampires, a slayer having friends and family, a watcher who acts more like a caring parent, who'd be willing to die in their slayer's place (prophecy girl) because he saw that slayer as an innocent 16 year old instead of a replaceable weapon... than distant scholar, etc...

              it's no wonder giles wasn't invited.

              and faith could have known about the retreat from her watcher telling her about it. perhaps her watcher was getting ready to go around the time she was killed.

              "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
              "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Veverka View Post
                If these two guys are the scum of the watchers' council... why did they get assigned slayers? Why weren't Buffy and Faith entrusted to watchers who had more cred? If the slayer is the instrument, why would the council have given the most powerful weapon it had into the hands of people they had contempt for?
                Well, I would agree that Watcher's of the council are often more respected for their names rather than their actual skills. Being given a slayer is a HUGE compliment and it seems as though when both Giles and Wes started out they were the types of Watchers that the Council molded them to be. Stiff, uncaring. I mean, even 3 years after being the Watcher of Buffy, it still had a hold on Giles considering that he subjected her to the Cruciamentum. Yes, he felt all bad about it after and all, but the fact remains that he lied and put her life at risk for days while he was dosing her. Also, think about this, Giles' grandmother has been established as being a great Watcher and this was established I believe in passing on the show, and more clearly in the Tales of the Vampires comics which if you remember are canon, so they count. I'm sure that would have atleast a little something to do with his being given a slayer. Though considering his past as a rebel and chaos raiser, it does surprise me that they might trust him enough to assign him a slayer. But then again, the Watcher needs to be atleast somewhat field trained, which as we saw with Wesley is needed. So again, that probably has something to do with Giles' being chosen. As far as Wesley's lack of actual combat training goes, I'm sure that comes along with the totally sissy "head boy" title, ahahaha. He was probably chosen by his uncanny ability to follow orders and not ask questions... and he was probably a brown noser too, so I'm sure that didn't hurt.

                Comment

                Working...
                X