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Buffy & Parker: Why would Joss say that?

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  • Buffy & Parker: Why would Joss say that?

    I hope nobody already started a thread like this. I checked and I didn't see one. In the Chosen commentary, after debunking theories about the cookie dough speech, Joss said that he felt that Parker would have been the best man for Buffy. I wanted to think that he was kidding, but he was dead serious. I've been watching the S4 episodes again that have Parker in them, and I can't figure out why Joss would feel that way, and if he did, why he would have the Parker story play out the way it did. The best that I can come up with is that Joss planned to have Parker be Buffy's boyfriend but had to toss the idea when Riley came onto the scene. Does anyone else have any insight into this?
    Insert witty quote here.

  • #2
    Odds are he said it just to jerk your chain. You can imagine that all of the ships and speculation have to get on the man's last nerve. Pulling the guy who just wanted to bed the wench and flush her seems like a really amusing tongue-in-cheek thing to do.

    Val

    Missed the commentary... If what the posters said below me is true...the wording 'most important' than yes...I agree completely. Scarier still I agree with Ververka and Vampmogs...may wanna mark your calendars. It's pretty rare for Vampmogs and I to agree on much.

    <3 Vampmogs - you're very fun to debate with.
    Last edited by Valyssia; 20-08-07, 10:19 AM.

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    • #3
      I recently listened to the commentary again and I don't think he actually ever stated that Parker would be the best man for Buffy but rather he was the most important relationship of Buffy's life. I couldn't entirley tell whether he was being sarcastic or not but I got the impression he was being serious about this as well. In my opinion what he meant by this was that it was the most important relationship because it taught her a big lesson about humans in general and how you don't have to be a nasty vampire to hurt someone. Parker taught Buffy a lot of things, I think that is what he meant.

      ~ Banner by Nina ~

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      • #4
        Originally posted by some spykie ship View Post
        I wanted to think that he was kidding, but he was dead serious.
        But why are you so sure he's dead serious?

        I see no reason to think he was dead serious. I do think he was kidding. Just making stuff up on the spot, throwing a spanner in the works of the spuffy and bangels who wanted a big definitive statement about why their ship was the most vital to Buffy.

        As to reasons why, yes, he could have been serious: well, absolutely, Parker had an impact on Buffy's life. Being the second guy to jerk Buffy around, well, that had its impact, was another reason she wasn't way trusting of men, etc, but beyond that, no, I don't think that Parker had any more influence on Buffy than, say, Harmony.

        if he did, why he would have the Parker story play out the way it did. The best that I can come up with is that Joss planned to have Parker be Buffy's boyfriend but had to toss the idea when Riley came onto the scene. Does anyone else have any insight into this?
        Well, if he had wanted Parker to be Buffy's boyfriend, he would have been... Joss was the producer of the show, he didn't have to employ Marc Blucas!!!

        Edit: Oh, and Vampmogs replied while I was still typing, so I'd like to add, I also agree with him!
        Edit the 2nd: Yes, but Val, you and I often agree, and Vampmogs and I often agree (we have completely different opinions on Willow's hair, mind you!), so it was ineveitable that you guys would agree eventually!
        Last edited by Veverka; 20-08-07, 01:29 PM.

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        • #5
          nNot that Wierd. Maybe It's because Parker is a normal boy without any conections with the bad sides or with the intiative. Don't get but me wrong but Buffy was happier with Parker more than anybody else. It's not because she loves more.. no! She didn't love Parker. But She was happy the night she met Parker. Anyone remember that night?

          She was happy, because she thought that she met the boy "without problems".

          She loved Angel more than anything else but that relationship was full of passion, problems and pain. That's why Buffy was very unhappy after the relationship with Angel. I can say she was in a little depression. Bad sides gave her problems.. everytime. Angel,Spike,Riley those are the guys that had a connection with that villians or whatever. Ok, they loved Buffy more than Parker(soooo much more than) but still they couldn't make it allright. They tried too make Buffy happy, but It never happend as they wanted, It was a destiny, that couldn't be changed, I think.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Valyssia View Post
            Missed the commentary... If what the posters said below me is true...the wording 'most important' than yes...I agree completely. Scarier still I agree with Ververka and Vampmogs...may wanna mark your calendars. It's pretty rare for Vampmogs and I to agree on much.

            <3 Vampmogs - you're very fun to debate with.
            I know and I'm now looking out my window waiting for the skies to turn orange and a pig to fly And thankyou, your quite a hoot at times as well.

            Originally posted by Veverka View Post
            Edit: Oh, and Vampmogs replied while I was still typing, so I'd like to add, I also agree with him!
            Edit the 2nd: Yes, but Val, you and I often agree, and Vampmogs and I often agree (we have completely different opinions on Willow's hair, mind you!), so it was ineveitable that you guys would agree eventually!
            Hahaha Willow's hair is at the best in s7 no one will ever change my opinion on that Well at least we disagree on something as superficial as a hair cut I spose

            ~ Banner by Nina ~

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            • #7
              Originally posted by vampmogs View Post
              Hahaha Willow's hair is at the best in s7 no one will ever change my opinion on that Well at least we disagree on something as superficial as a hair cut I spose
              It's for the best in the long run, I'm sure...

              Originally posted by basakbangel View Post
              nNot that Wierd. Maybe It's because Parker is a normal boy without any conections with the bad sides or with the intiative. Don't get but me wrong but Buffy was happier with Parker more than anybody else. It's not because she loves more.. no! She didn't love Parker. But She was happy the night she met Parker. Anyone remember that night?

              She was happy, because she thought that she met the boy "without problems".
              And before this gets spammy, I do think you have made a good point there Basak; Buffy feels safe for a fraction of a second, which even when he was good, I think Angel couldn't really do, by virtue of the world they walked in together. Parker jerking her around must have really been a big rip in the somewhat newly regained innocence, and in that sense, a big part of the lead up to Riley and their inability to connect.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Veverka View Post
                It's for the best in the long run, I'm sure...
                And before this gets spammy, I do think you have made a good point there Basak; Buffy feels safe for a fraction of a second, which even when he was good, I think Angel couldn't really do, by virtue of the world they walked in together. Parker jerking her around must have really been a big rip in the somewhat newly regained innocence, and in that sense, a big part of the lead up to Riley and their inability to connect.
                I think that at times Buffy seemed very happy with Riley and Buffy. With Angel I think her happiest time was around The Prom just before Angel broke up with her. Buffy was extremely excited about going to the Prom with Angel and I think she was very happy with Riley when they were at that happy place between Superstar and Where the Wild Things Are. However, I agree that with Parker because of the world he was in she didn't feel the risk that she felt with Angel, Riley or Spike.

                I think when Buffy realised that Parker had just used her it was a massive hit for her because Parker was just a normal guy, not some evil nasty who lost his soul and then went evil. In my opinion Buffy was desperate to try out a normal relationship, outside of an office romance which she vowed not have again.. didn't last long though did it? I don't think she ever expected for Parker to turn evil after sleeping with her, not after everything with Angel/us and the soul. That is why it was such a massive blow to her, this whole innocent dellusion that human guys can't be bad was shattered, the same thing happened all over again but this time the guy had no excuse; he didn't loose his soul.

                ~ Banner by Nina ~

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Veverka View Post
                  It's for the best in the long run, I'm sure...



                  And before this gets spammy, I do think you have made a good point there Basak; Buffy feels safe for a fraction of a second, which even when he was good, I think Angel couldn't really do, by virtue of the world they walked in together. Parker jerking her around must have really been a big rip in the somewhat newly regained innocence, and in that sense, a big part of the lead up to Riley and their inability to connect.
                  Thank you, Veverka. yes!
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by vampmogs View Post
                    I think that at times Buffy seemed very happy with Riley and Buffy. With Angel I think her happiest time was around The Prom just before Angel broke up with her. Buffy was extremely excited about going to the Prom with Angel and I think she was very happy with Riley when they were at that happy place between Superstar and Where the Wild Things Are. However, I agree that with Parker because of the world he was in she didn't feel the risk that she felt with Angel, Riley or Spike.

                    I think when Buffy realised that Parker had just used her it was a massive hit for her because Parker was just a normal guy, not some evil nasty who lost his soul and then went evil. In my opinion Buffy was desperate to try out a normal relationship, outside of an office romance which she vowed not have again.. didn't last long though did it? I don't think she ever expected for Parker to turn evil after sleeping with her, not after everything with Angel/us and the soul. That is why it was such a massive blow to her, this whole innocent dellusion that human guys can't be bad was shattered, the same thing happened all over again but this time the guy had no excuse; he didn't loose his soul.
                    Yes definitely! As you said Parker had no losing soul stuff. And he was the good guy for Buffy after the relationship with Angel. Yes she was happy before The Prom and with Riley sometime. But they couldn't keep the same. They knew that, that's why the both relationships couldn't stay long.
                    Buffy hoped for a happier relationship , she risked the less-loving but happier. Then she knew she could never had a thing like that.
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                    • #11
                      I sometimes cant understand Joss,:
                      -Because of the thing Ive learnt from you, the Parker thing
                      -Because the funny and strange episode "something Blue" is just after "I'll remember you", dramatic Angel episode which also includes Bangel love.
                      -Buffy&Angel kiss in "End of Days" just after "Touched", where Buffy&Spike had wonderful moments..
                      And there are lots of things that we can add into the list.And Im sure that these look right to him, but why? He wrote wonderful episodes and he made big mistakes, maybe he has two different souls in his body. I think thats the only explanation..=)
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                      • #12
                        Basing my opinion on some interviews on Joss, I've always had this feeling that BTVS did not play out the way Joss wanted it to. BTVS was supposed to be all about female empowerment, and since some fans were obsessing with Bangel and Spuffy, defining the heroine, or her happiness, based on her relationships, that, IMO, is defeating the entire message of female empowerment - and, in the Buffyverse, who's better at that than Mister "Seize the moment" Parker?

                        I think this has caused him some frustration - frustration that he wanted to return to the fans who are the source of it in the first place. Thus, his inexplicable comment.

                        He was being I think he was being Facetious to the fans, to - that's the only possible reason. If we argue that he wanted someone normal for Buffy - he could have easily said Owen, and not Parker.
                        Last edited by Julian; 25-08-07, 04:35 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Parker was the man. When I go to college in the near future I want to be just like him. I like to pretend that he lied to Buffy when he told her that his father died, because that would make him even studlier. I like that he put it out there to rack up sympathy points, but then said he didn't want to dwell on it so that she wouldn't think he was just saying it to rack up sympathy points. Very sly. Then after his deceit was all said and done, he had the audacity to hit on Willow; a valiant attempt. I'm pretty sure the only reason she turned him down is because she'd already been bitten by a raccoon carrying lesbianitis at that point. It's either that or loyalty to Buffy, and my reason is cooler.

                          Also, I cracked up at his "what's the difference between a toilet and a Freshman?" joke. I'm not sure I understand why Riley punched him. I'm going to assume that he was outraged that he didn't think of it first. I think Riley, Parker and Wood are the only men Buffy dated who didn't degenerate into total women when around her. Yes, I said Riley. If you look at how much different Angel and Spike are when they're not involved with Buffy, the contrast is mind bottling (that's when a thought is so powerful that you have to trap it in a bottle, for anyone unfortunate enough to have not seen Blades of Glory). Scott and Owen were also pretty much the same people with or without her too, I guess, but they were both fairies right from the beginning. Especially Owen, and that's even acknowledging the revelation that arose about Scott in Conversations With Dead People. Scott gets points for spreading mean rumors about Buffy after they broke up, which is what I would do. Meanwhile Owen reads poetry. Clearly Scott wins.

                          Parker most important man in her life? Arguably, since he taught her a pretty important life lesson. You could make the same argument for her father, though I didn't like that he was retconned into an uncaring deadbeat after he seemed like a pretty loving dad earlier in the series. Maybe it was part of the ongoing message of how men will always inevitably crush your soul and golden shower all over your heart. All except for Giles. Oh, Giles; never a letdown. Giles is such a trooper that he slept with Joyce, when I think a rugged guy like him could do way better (and way younger).
                          Last edited by Sid; 08-09-07, 09:40 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Feminists Are Ugly View Post
                            Parker was the man. When I go to college in the near future I want to be just like him. I like to pretend that he lied to Buffy when he told her that his father died, because that would make him even studlier. I like that he put it out there to rack up sympathy points, but then said he didn't want to dwell on it so that she wouldn't think he was just saying it to rack up sympathy points. Very sly. Then after his deceit was all said and done, he had the audacity to hit on Willow; a valiant attempt. I'm pretty sure the only reason she turned him down is because she'd already been bitten by a raccoon carrying lesbianitis at that point. It's either that or loyalty to Buffy, and my reason is cooler.

                            Also, I cracked up at his "what's the difference between a toilet and a Freshman?" joke. I'm not sure I understand why Riley punched him. I'm going to assume that he was outraged that he didn't think of it first. I think Riley, Parker and Wood are the only men Buffy dated who didn't degenerate into total women when around her. Yes, I said Riley. If you look at how much different Angel and Spike are when they're not involved with Buffy, the contrast is mind bottling (that's when a thought is so powerful that you have to trap it in a bottle, for anyone unfortunate enough to have not seen Blades of Glory). Scott and Owen were also pretty much the same people with or without her too, I guess, but they were both fairies right from the beginning. Especially Owen, and that's even acknowledging the revelation that arose about Scott in Conversations With Dead People. Scott gets points for spreading mean rumors about Buffy after they broke up, which is what I would do. Meanwhile Owen reads poetry. Clearly Scott wins.

                            Parker most important man in her life? Arguably, since he taught her a pretty important life lesson. You could make the same argument for her father, though I didn't like that he was retconned into an uncaring deadbeat after he seemed like a pretty loving dad earlier in the series. Maybe it was part of the ongoing message of how men will always inevitably crush your soul and golden shower all over your heart. All except for Giles. Oh, Giles; never a letdown. Giles is such a trooper that he slept with Joyce, when I think a rugged guy like him could do way better (and way younger).
                            appreciate your arrival, FaUx. Haveta admit to naughty naughty hope that somebody would jump in, silk-chiffon skirts swirling in outrage at your first few posts - that would've been fun "... a raccoon bearing lesbianitis" - Joss would love that.

                            ... and so would Brian K Vaughan, recently interviewed by Joss about BKV's Faith arc in Buffy Season 8:

                            JW: You kill characters more blithely than any writer I know except maybe one whose name escapes me. Everyone has someone they're not over (for me it's Journal, you bastard.) Do you want to talk about it? Why do you kill? Why?

                            BKV: Well, Willow had it coming.

                            Oops, spoiler alert?
                            basically, Joss likes to tease.
                            Last edited by ferdy-m; 08-09-07, 11:25 AM.
                            * supporting the WGA strikers *

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