What do you like better: Buffy or Angel

[like.clover]

Sorry if the title is confusing but I'm talking about the shows in general. At first, before I even saw Angel, it was Buffy all the way. I loved the characters, the plot, twists, everything. Then a while later, gave Angel a try. The first time through I thought it was boring, maybe because I just wasn't interested in the whole "monster of the week" vibe it had going. I just recently finished watching Angel for the second time (from start to finish in only about 3 weeks). Honestly, I have never seen such a well written show. Unlike others, it got progressively BETTER! It's just brilliant!!

Angel got progressively better to the point where I couldn't think it could get better, and then it did. While I ADORE Buffy, I'll have to go with ANGEL as being my all-time favourite!!!

What are your thoughts?

[vampmogs]

I love both shows but have to go with Btvs. I have always been more emotionally invested in Btvs due greatly to the characters. I find them much more loveable than any of the Ats characters bar a few exceptions and out of all the Ats characters, Angel, Wes and Cordy are my favourites and they all did come from Btvs. I just connected with the characters so much more, and could connect with them on their journey whereas sometimes the Ats characters were likeable but were never loveable.

I also liked Buffy's framework better. What I mean by this is that I liked how we had the big bad of the season and the characters had to overcome this. It aways led to an explosive and exciting conclusion when often Ats kind of just ended the season with nothing majorly explosive or exciting. I liked how the season of Buffy gradually built up to its conclusion when often Ats never felt like it did. Take for example s4- all of this Jasmine and the Beast trouble to end up with the finale episode about them taking over Wolfram and Hart. A good episode but there was never any major build up to it, it somewhat felt undeserved.

I personally think Btvs had a better string of episodes and seasons, I was never a fan of the monster of the week Angel episodes as they solved crimes and dislike most of Ats s2. Whereas, I found the Buffy monster of the week episodes far more interesting and the seasonal arcs always appealed to me more than Ats.

I've never really got why people say Ats is much more adult. I don't agree with this, Buffy dealt with a lot of adult issues as the kids developed into adults and I think episdoes like The Body were some of the most intelligent and 'adult' episodes of either shows.
Both were great shows, were different for many different reasons but I have to go with Btvs.

[Jenni Lou]

I've never really got why people say Ats is much more adult. I don't agree with this,

I don't really either. I think they are both on the same page, more or less. Perhaps some people feel this way because AtS never took place in a school whereas BtVS spent a little over four seasons in one. :/

But my pick is for AtS. Of course I love both but AtS is much moodier and that appeals to me. BtVS is dramatic however it has much more zaniness and comedy that its spinoff. It's just a matter of personal taste.

But I will add that if I compiled a list of my top 25 fave eps of both series combined, I'm willing to wager that there would be more BtVS eps in that list.

I was never a fan of the monster of the week Angel episodes as they solved crimes and dislike most of Ats s2.

And I am not a big fan of MotW eps, either...but in my recollection BtVS has more of those than Angel does. Except for s1 which is just full of them! s1 is definitely not my fave at all...for either series. And while I don't care much for the first half of s2, I rather quite adore the second half. The Pylean arc was great fun and such a neat adventure for the gang. But I am also a huge fan of Reprise/Epiphany and Belonging! It has some misses though too...like Happy Anniversary and others.

Ugh, I wish my post sounded, er, more eloquent but I am tired so give me a break!

[vampmogs]

I don't really either. I think they are both on the same page, more or less. Perhaps some people feel this way because AtS never took place in a school whereas BtVS spent a little over four seasons in one. :/

That's what I think as well, but if this is the case then I think people have to realise that just because it is in a highschool setting this doesn't mean adult issues cannot be explored. I think Btvs was a testement to that.

But I will add that if I compiled a list of my top 25 fave eps of both series combined, I'm willing to wager that there would be more BtVS eps in that list.

So do you feel that the quality of Btvs was greater but you enjoyed the darker and gritter mood of Ats overall?

And I am not a big fan of MotW eps, either...but in my recollection BtVS has more of those than Angel does. Except for s1 which is just full of them! s1 is definitely not my fave at all...for either series. And while I don't care much for the first half of s2, I rather quite adore the second half. The Pylean arc was great fun and such a neat adventure for the gang. But I am also a huge fan of Reprise/Epiphany and Belonging! It has some misses though too...like Happy Anniversary and others.

Yeah but I always felt the monster of the week eps on Buffy were always more interesting than the ones we got in Ats. As for example, Happy Anniversary just being so awful and IMO such a stupid premisis. But then that's just me I'm sure many love them And well.. anyone who was in the VIP section a few days ago knows my unpopular feelings about the Pylean Arc.

Ugh, I wish my post sounded, er, more eloquent but I am tired so give me a break!

haha

[Jenni Lou]

So do you feel that the quality of Btvs was greater but you enjoyed the darker and gritter mood of Ats overall?

I'm not sure how to answer that really. I did like the darker, grittier mood, certainly, but I don't know if I could classify one series's quality as being higher than the other. They're just different. BtVS just has some stellar eps. Angel too...but Buffy has some serious killer great stuff. And whereas you enjoy the arc of BtVS's seasons over Angel, I actually enjoy the Angel arc more. But to be fair, I haven't watched either series in so long. I could truly use a fresh look at both of them.

And I know you are a huge Buffy (character) fan. But she's not my fave character at all. And whereas I did not like Angel on her show I came to quite love him on his own and I suspect my choosing AtS might have something to do with which main character I like more. :/

I actually didn't like the Pylean arc the first time around but it grew on me. There are some parts I don't care for in it but Lorne is probably my fave character so I enjoyed how much screen time he got and that we got to explore his backstory. And the eps have some great bits in them; I just think it was a nice departure from the world we knew so much about. The characters were fish out of water and that's always a great story to tell. If done right.

[vampmogs]

I'm not sure how to answer that really. I did like the darker, grittier mood, certainly, but I don't know if I could classify one series's quality as being higher than the other. They're just different. BtVS just has some stellar eps. Angel too...but Buffy has some serious killer great stuff. And whereas you enjoy the arc of BtVS's seasons over Angel, I actually enjoy the Angel arc more. But to be fair, I haven't watched either series in so long. I could truly use a fresh look at both of them.

It really depends on my mood. Sometimes I need a break from Btvs and enjoy Ats more, other times it is the other way around. More often than not though it is Btvs it really does depend on my mood.

And I know you are a huge Buffy (character) fan. But she's not my fave character at all. And whereas I did not like Angel on her show I came to quite love him on his own and I suspect my choosing AtS might have something to do with which main character I like more. :/

That could be a huge part of it. I've heavily invested in the character of Buffy- although in saying that I actually really like Angel as well. I'm one of few who liked him on both Btvs and Ats, granted he def shines more on Ats but I never disliked him at any moment. I find all his actions as understandable as Buffys, though he did do some pretty dark things.

I actually didn't like the Pylean arc the first time around but it grew on me. There are some parts I don't care for in it but Lorne is probably my fave character so I enjoyed how much screen time he got and that we got to explore his backstory. And the eps have some great bits in them; I just think it was a nice departure from the world we knew so much about. The characters were fish out of water and that's always a great story to tell. If done right.

There are some parts I enjoy about the Pylean Arc- mostly the more sinister aspects of it but that is because I enjoy Ats when it is dark and gritty both under and on the surface. I'd be lying if I stated it didn't have good aspects because it is very rare anything in the Whedonverse didn't but yeah I just don't enjoy some aspects of it. I've never been a real fan of Lorne there was always something very off-putting about him. I think at times he could be incredibly selfish and put his own needs before others but his character grew on me, especially near the end of s5.

[Julian]

No, as an Angel fan I wouldn't say that ATS is more adult, although there are numerous expats and ATS fans who would allow their biases to say so. It's darker sure, perhaps even more, I dunno, epic? I'm having trouble with the right word. But BTVS can carry its own in the mature department.

Personally, BTVS greatest "mature" strength was when it was still in its early stage. When OZ, Joyce, Tara and Giles were still in the picture. After that it steadily declined IMO (the allegorical message wasn't as subtle as ATS: the magic addiction, the mercy sex thing, klepto dawn, etc?). Angel had trouble sending its message through to its audience too, yeah, but for the exception of things like the Cordy sex, ATS message and philosophies were kick ass.

[redrevo]

BtVS is dramatic however it has much more zaniness and comedy that its spinoff. It's just a matter of personal taste.

It really is, and it's this that IMO separates the two most. Both of the shows have deep themes, at least as I've heard. But Angel is more of a traditional horror or drama, while the mission statement of Buffy was to take that framework (it's a fine framework, personally I'm not a fan but I see why people like it) and smash it to bits - thus not taking everything seriously - and still being a deep and epic story that's realistic and that all humans can relate to. Traditionally, you'll have the epic hero as a loner, or someone with a dark past struggling for redemption (and of course they take saving the world very seriously and it seeps into the rest of their life as well), but in Buffy, well, it's three young adults making jokes about "scythe matters" and the ways one could create a look to go with an eyepatch - and the one who's chosen to save the world from the apocalypse is named Buffy, of all things!

I've always thought Giles, as the father figure and the one who takes everything seriously (at least towards the beginning and at the end), represented traditional notions of heroes, ones who devoted their lives to their work, and that's why he gets made fun of so much on Buffy. Even in the finale, it's no longer the lone hero - it's everyone's fight, with a very human-unity theme, bringing up something else: some stories emphasize the hero saving the world by their superpowers, having to fight alone. But Xander ends up being one of the key members of the Scoobies.

Some people like traditional epic stories, or darker redemption themes. Some people like stories that make fun of that sort of thing. Some people enjoy certain story arc lengths, some don't. Some appreciate a bunch of little bads, some like a big bad. Some people...well, you get my point. It really does come down to taste, if you prefer a show because of its themes or even the season or episode structure. If I were to watch Angel, and if I liked it, it would probably be because of the moments where Angel or the bad guy gets mocked (particularly by Cordy).

[Cordelia_Chase]

hhum...well obviously to start with i loved Buffy. The show cud do no wrong in my eyes. lol
But then Angel started and if im honest, i didnt like the first season much, i had to watch it twice beofre i opend my eyes and reaslised how good it actually was.

I then felt Agnel just grew from strenght to strength, with brill storys interesting characters and an amazing cast.

Sure Buffy had all those aspect too, but i dont know i just found myself liking Angel more and more than Buffy. Though at times Buffy kept me at the edge of my seat and i LOVED OMWF!!!

But over all i gotta go with Angel being my fave.

[ShinyFirefly]

As always, I have to go with Angel. While not necessarily more adult, I have to say that the tone and look of the series (with the possible exception of BtvS later seasons) was darker than Buffy. Because with Buffy at times every other line is supposed to be funny, I reckon it didn't always have the tension that Angel had. And I loooove that tension.

I also like the characters on Angel more. By season 5 or 6 of Buffy I found a lot of the characters becoming unlikable, or at least less charming than they used to be. Plus, BtvS overused the HELL out of Spike, which I found annoying at times. Angel also had my favorite Big Bads of any Joss series, Wolfram and Hart.

So yeah, Angel - whoohoo. Although I will admit Buffy is a better show to have on in the background, and I tend to watch it a little bit more because with Angel I feel I have to sit and really 'get into' it when I have it on.

[ciderdrinker]

My first reaction to seeing this thread is that it would be obvious that BtVS would come out over AtS, and then I looked at the poll and saw that it was painfully true, so I gave my favourite show the love it deserves and voted for Angel.

I can't give you an eloquent or in-depth answer about why I like this one more than Buffy, especially as it would be "a photo finish" in the race to the top. Instead, I'm gonna let you know how it edged into first place.

I watched Buffy first, loved it totally, started buying it on video (then DVD) and was never interested in Angel - there was too much Buffy still to see and it was still airing on the BBC (about season 5, I think when I first heard about AtS!). Then a girl I worked with, who was a total Buffy addict (much more than me at that point) told me she had AtS on video and let me watch it.

So I watched half of S1 AtS with her - liked it but it didn't grab me like BtVS did - I missed the sunshine and the lighthearted moments - it was too dark and depressing. (I hadn't really seen much of S6 of BtVS, at this point). It was only after we stopped working together I started to get more interest about the show and went and bought S1 on DVD for myself.

When I re-watched it I couldn't believe that I hadn't liked it at first. Doyle's death so early on in the series had me totally cut up, and then Wesley appeared and things went from strength to strength. I finished the season and then re-watched it immediately.

So now I've seen all BtVS and AtS several times, and when I need light sunny moments I go for early BtVS, when I need real pain I go for later BtVS, when I need tall, dark and handsome (brooding of course) I go for early AtS and when I need huge storylines I go for late AtS.

They both have their own style and rhythm, both have their own fabulous qualities, and both fill my needs in different ways, but the discovering of AtS, and realising how good it was - when I thought that nothing could be better than Buffy - is an almost magical moment for me, and therefore will stay (just) in first place in my heart

[kana]

For me it's Angel. I don't know why but I relate more to the protagonist, his weaknesses and fears and how seemed to be more defined as the existential hero. His calling is less clear than Buffy's and while Buffy's power can be used for good or evil, I enjoyed how Angel's prophecy liked in with need for humanization both physically and psychologically which I felt was a stronger feeling of alienation in adult life.

When Doyle says high school is over it's sets the tone of more adult show where it's not so much about growing up but moving on and the decision we make once we are grown up. Unlike the moral relativism in Buffy which mostly touches upon the differences in moral, or political philosophies (well there is actually a lot but I prefer the ones on Angel) Ats explores these dimensions subjectively as the hero is someone who used to be a monster.

To be honestm they all part of the same narrative but I prefer Angel's characters dark storylines, and how our eponymous hero is defined by loneliness and struggles to reaffirm his connections with humanity which in itself was a double edged sword and something that Angel stuggles with constantly (more so than the naturally extroverted Buffy).

In short both are great but lean towards Angel.

[Peace]

Even though BTVS will always be the first show for me, I love Ats. It's hard to choose, really, so I picked the "both" variant.
BTVS works for me because of strong female characters, the humor, Buffy's problems in life (wich I find very similar to mine), and Ats because of Angel, because of it's darkness and doom.
Can't choose really.

[Justin]

Dont get me wrong, I totally LOVE buffy, but Angel has something about it that is unique in the way its written maybe?. The characters (even through some were brought from Buffy) really add alot to the plot of the show. Fred/Illyria was a HUGE transformation and in the end both by showing really how much everyone cared about eachother and that Angels battle was over.

[Jenni Lou]

My first reaction to seeing this thread is that it would be obvious that BtVS would come out over AtS, and then I looked at the poll and saw that it was painfully true, so I gave my favourite show the love it deserves and voted for Angel.

That's so weird. It seems most posts here sway toward the Angel side so I don't know why BtVS has more votes. I, for one, forgot to vote so I just did.

Yay for the Angel love. I love 'em both but...you know...

[CanadianBtVSFan]

I liked Buffy the Vampire Slayer more than Angel. I do like Angel the Series too though. Both were great anyways.

[Salvation]

Angel all the way not just bcuz i love him ^^ but bcuz the way they were handling things i know Buffy done alot til the end but i think Angel was more darker & dealt more with their darkness within i dont know how to say it but with Angel you would never what would happen next ,it's more action.

Beside with Angel i wasnt worried they might engagged in SEX while your watchin it with little kids,Angel was more a family show where you can watch it & not worrying something more adult will happen.

I voted for both bcuz i really love both shows

[ShinyFirefly]

Beside with Angel i wasnt worried they might engagged in SEX while your watchin it with little kids,Angel was more a family show where you can watch it & not worrying something more adult will happen.

Wow, do you really think that? Just curious, because I have a 4-year-old and Angel is never, ever on when she is around because it can get extremely violent. And to me that's much worse than any sex scene they've ever shown on either show. Sorry for the OT, those comments just surprised me.

[Paradise]

Buffy by far.

[Veverka]

For me, it's Buffy. My first love, and I just can't let go of it! I do love Angel, think it has some great arcs, but some things I just couldn't forgive, like the killing off of Cordelia, I think this mistake is a big example of what's not so tight about the show. At least when Giles came back, we knew how much we'd missed him, and he stuck around, on and off, 'til the end. To me Cordy is the heart of Angel, and her absense is too much to bear.