Is Buffy offensive to you?

[vampmogs]

Hey everyone

I was recently searching the net for movie reviews and stumbled upon a Christian website called Christiananswers.com that reviewed movies and judged them on how "offensive" they were to Christian beliefs. Evidently, movies like Brokeback Mountain were considered trash and extremely offensive, it was bagged in a serious way. I then ventured into the TV section where I clicked on Buffy the Vampire and the site has said to avoid it. This is what a following member had to say;

This program is a direct offense to God and his commandments. This show is satanic, and its content is heavily surrounded with witchcraft, divination, curses and sorcery. In Exodus God told Moses and the children of Israel to kill any sorceress, because God considered that idol worshiping. Exodus 22:18. [Note: this is Old Testament law]
--Yuvette, age 30

Now this surprised me in a major way, not only do they say Buffy is a direct offense to God but they actually quote a passage from the bible, stating that any sorceress (Willow) should be killed, basically insuiniating the idea towards her character or what it represents. Furthermore, other members state that Willow isn't a good role model because she is a lesbian and a Wiccan and title episodes focusing around the Tillow relationship as "gross" or "disgusting."

Now personally I am angered by these views, and I let my feelings known, a comment I'm sure they won't publish but nevertheless someone will read it and I would have got my point across. Willow is a caring kind character and to insinuate she should be killed for her beliefs or sexuality is incredibly wrong and disgusting. Furthermore, Btvs is all about doing good against evil, being a good person or seeking redemption; it asks what it means to be a hero.

This thread isn't about attacking, I have been baptised, went to a Catholic school and technically am a Christian, although I don't practice the faith whatsoever, and there is nothing wrong with that. However, I want to know if anything you've seen in Btvs, either in the themes it explores, certain scenes, situations or dialouge has been offensive to you? Regardless of your faith?

Discuss,

Vampmogs

[Willow's Tara]

They are closed minded morons who can't get a life, and I will defend anyone who insults Willow/Alyson and Tara/Amber (I wouldn't be surprised if anyone actually threatened Amber/Alyson for thier character's sexuality), anyway not all Christians are like it, just those kinds.

And no, Buffy is not defensive to me because unlike some sites and people, I do know Buffy is a just show, I know there are good witches etc, I know that Lesbians/Bisexuals/Gays are just like us straight and shouldn't be ridiculed because of it.

Edit: oh by the way, Buffy's not the only show to get rammed down by stupid sites like that, Harry Potter, Pokemon, Digimon for example are always been stamped down, wouldn't be surprised if Charmed was getting the same (Besides, isn't Willow a witch? Not a Sorceress, same with Tara)

[tangent]

As Vampmogs says i'm not here to attack christians or religious people as a whole because i know several kind, charitable people whose faith is an important part of their lives (and who don't geet preachy)

However I really cannot believe that people actually think like this. Buffy is satanic! No it's not. I've been watching it for many years and have yet to start wordhipping satan. Buffy is about people choosing between right and wrong and actually choosing to fight against the wrong in the world. A big part of Buffy to me is accepting the differences between people and not judging, giving everyone a chance and the importance of inclusinveness, tolerance and acceptance in making a better world.

On a lighter note I had a quick look at the site in question and a bit lower down from the above quote is a poster complaining that SMG's breasts are in every shot. Perhaps they should only have used tight head shots thoughot, or only shown Buffy's scenes from behind her.

[vampmogs]

As Vampmogs says i'm not here to attack christians or religious people as a whole because i know several kind, charitable people whose faith is an important part of their lives (and who don't geet preachy)

However I really cannot believe that people actually think like this. Buffy is satanic! No it's not. I've been watching it for many years and have yet to start wordhipping satan. Buffy is about people choosing between right and wrong and actually choosing to fight against the wrong in the world. A big part of Buffy to me is accepting the differences between people and not judging, giving everyone a chance and the importance of inclusinveness, tolerance and acceptance in making a better world.

On a lighter note I had a quick look at the site in question and a bit lower down from the above quote is a poster complaining that SMG's breasts are in every shot. Perhaps they should only have used tight head shots thoughot, or only shown Buffy's scenes from behind her.

Yes I noticed that as well and couldn't express my anger for this. Not only are her breats not in every shot but never are they constantly focused on, that is against everything Joss created the show for, and I think the real question is why this guy feels compelled to stare at and talk about her breasts.

[Willow's Tara]

Tangent- What? So they expect us to only see the head or back? How about when they are doing something with thier arms or something like that, idiot. (I mean him or whatever), and I don't see him companing about Amber's, Emma's, Michelle's or any of the other females breasts, and we seen full shots of them (And with Buffy/Tara/Willow have been nearly naked, Anya comes to that as well)...

[KingofCretins]

I've always argued that responsible parents can distinguish for their children between magic as depicted on TV or in movies as metaphor, or just as a plot device. It's a long walk from there to actually encouraging kids to try to do it.

[Anon]

Now personally I am angered by these views, and I let my feelings known, a comment I'm sure they won't publish but nevertheless someone will read it and I would have got my point across. Willow is a caring kind character and to insinuate she should be killed for her beliefs or sexuality is incredibly wrong and disgusting. Furthermore, Btvs is all about doing good against evil, being a good person or seeking redemption; it asks what it means to be a hero.

Fundamentalists, in any religion, are pretty much the same. They don't have the intelligence to see beyond the things they are told to believe. They don't have the ability to consider what is or isn't reasonable. Don't waste your time talking to these people. If they were capable of anything remotely resembling rational thought, they wouldn't be fundamentalists.

[KingofCretins]

Would it be fair to say that that includes fundie atheists?

People with deeply held religious beliefs are quite sensible to weed out influences hostile to those beliefs when raising their children. I just think that the charges against Buffy (and Harry Potter, for instance) are short-sighted ones.

[redrevo]

I find absolutely nothing offensive about Buffy at all, sure at some points things happened that I didn't want to happen, but I was not disgusted at anything that happened. The dialogue was true to life and of course there were jokes some might consider "off-color" but that makes it all the more realistic. Plus all the jokes were funny, that helps too I enjoyed the themes most of all, they were unbelievably well written and I agreed with most of them.

I'm an atheist but this criticism of arguments against Buffy isn't intended to be a rail against Christianity or any other religion, I'm just a fanatical Buffy defender.

Regarding the "witchcraft issue":
A) it's a plot device. This is a metaphorical show that uses the supernatural to convey serious, real-life messages. One might be offended by the themes, but to be angry at the way they're showed is incredibly superficial.
B) "Witchcraft" doesn't happen in real life. Sure, Wiccan people exist in real life, but if you ask anyone with Wiccan beliefs to float a pencil you're probably going to get some incredibly pissed off looks.

What some of these people don't seem to understand is that the show is not about the supernatural in itself - that's simply a vehicle to convey messages about humanity, about the real world. Like KoC said, it's really rather shortsighted.

[scarybunny]

Well, I don't find Buffy at all offensive and long answer short...

People can believe in whatever they want, as long as they don't force it onto anyone...

Regarding the "witchcraft issue":
A) it's a plot device. This is a metaphorical show that uses the supernatural to convey serious, real-life messages. One might be offended by the themes, but to be angry at the way they're showed is incredibly superficial.
B) "Witchcraft" doesn't happen in real life. Sure, Wiccan people exist in real life, but if you ask anyone with Wiccan beliefs to float a pencil you're probably going to get some incredibly pissed off looks.

What some of these people don't seem to understand is that the show is not about the supernatural in itself - that's simply a vehicle to convey messages about humanity, about the real world. Like KoC said, it's really rather shortsighted.

agreed. This show I think, is just a fun (okay a little darker, a lot darker) way to show things that happen in real life, to everyday people through metaphors. Not offensive to me.

I love it.

[holypotatoes]

This program is a direct offense to God and his commandments. This show is satanic, and its content is heavily surrounded with witchcraft, divination, curses and sorcery. In Exodus God told Moses and the children of Israel to kill any sorceress, because God considered that idol worshiping. Exodus 22:18. [Note: this is Old Testament law]
--Yuvette, age 30

HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!! I don't know why I find this incredibly entertaining/amusing. I still don't see how we can live in a society where there are still people who think like this. Come on, lighten up! Buffy is not at all satanic. If it was, more people would probably watch it.

Perhaps they should only have used tight head shots thoughot, or only shown Buffy's scenes from behind her.

If they did this we all know they would just complain even more because they would use the excuse that all they're trying to do is get shots of her ass! Bible Bangers annoy the crap out of me sometimes. I don't have any problem with religions or religious people but GOD! People need to open their eyes and come join all of us here in the real world. Come down off their high pedestals. Anyway, all of us who watch Buffy are most likely opened minded about things than the people that go to that website and that's okay. Hopefully nobody got offended from what I just wrote. If you did SORRY!

[Paradise]

Buffy is not offensive to me, Xander has once in awhile slipped up and said something offensive, but not Buffy. Buffy's a good strong women who most of the time doesn't take crap from people. She's a role model.

[vampmogs]

Buffy is not offensive to me, Xander has once in awhile slipped up and said something offensive, but not Buffy. Buffy's a good strong women who most of the time doesn't take crap from people. She's a role model.

Interesting. What has said Xander said that has offended you? It'd be great to hear you expand on this

[Thomas]

- You can always get redemption if you try hard enough. (Ex: Willow, Spike, Andrew, Anya, & Angel to name a few.)
- Good will always triumph evil. (Ex: Buffy beating the Master, Angelus, the Mayor, Adam, & Glory.)

Those are two of the many themes of Buffy and if you find those themes bad, maybe you're not as good as you think you are.

[Valyssia]

You won't find anyone here that will answer yes to that question. Go knock on a fundamentalist [anything] forum and ask. You'll find a buncha really crazy folks who think that just about everything of this scary, secular world is offensive. Do yourself a massive favor and write them all quickly off. Fundamentalists scare the frilly hell outta me. Even fundamentalist pagans are a total nightmare of Lovecraftian proportions.

Get a big stick and a can of Raid before you go run your experiment. Oh and the special safety glasses...

Val

[Anon]

If they did this we all know they would just complain even more because they would use the excuse that all they're trying to do is get shots of her ass! Bible Bangers annoy the crap out of me sometimes. I don't have any problem with religions or religious people but GOD! People need to open their eyes and come join all of us here in the real world. Come down off their high pedestals. Anyway, all of us who watch Buffy are most likely opened minded about things than the people that go to that website and that's okay. Hopefully nobody got offended from what I just wrote. If you did SORRY!

Actually, it's only a few people who are making comments like the ones Mogs referred to. Most of them are more reasonable.

Those are two of the many themes of Buffy and if you find those themes bad, maybe you're not as good as you think you are.

Fundamentalists are never as good as they think they are.

[Wolfie Gilmore]

I've always argued that responsible parents can distinguish for their children between magic as depicted on TV or in movies as metaphor, or just as a plot device. It's a long walk from there to actually encouraging kids to try to do it.

Perhaps they need a diagram? One side of the diagram with "stories" and one circle with "reality", and a big thick black line dividing them.

Oh, and as for lesbianism...Willow and Tara is hardly an advert for sapphic activity. Be a lez, get shot in the chest, in accordance with Proverbs (of TV) chapter I verse vii.

[sherrilina]

Hey everyone
Now this surprised me in a major way, not only do they say Buffy is a direct offense to God but they actually quote a passage from the bible, stating that any sorceress (Willow) should be killed, basically insuiniating the idea towards her character or what it represents. Furthermore, other members state that Willow isn't a good role model because she is a lesbian and a Wiccan and title episodes focusing around the Tillow relationship as "gross" or "disgusting."

I'm not really surprised--I mean, there are fundamentalist lunatics like Laura Mallory who insist that Harry Potter promotes and converts people to Wicca, when there is no Wicca in the entire book--not that she would know that though, since she's never opened an HP book.... But she KNOWS they're evil all the same! People like the reviewers on that website confuse any magic (even Mary Poppins or Wizard of Oz Glinda-style witches) with being evil, and Willow is clearly a witch (and an overtly Wicca one at that, talking about the Goddess and such--much more than HP, which doesn't have any Wicca in it--so if the Wicca-less HP is attacked for having Wicca, of course Buffy would be, and more legitimately so!), so of course some narrow-minded people would consider it to be offensive.

Same with the homosexuality--if Brokeback Mountain is "trash," then Buffy certainly would be, as it also has a homosexual relationship in it! (Two in fact....). So no, it does not surprise me, though of course I disagree with it, and wish there weren't such idiots in the world who are so close-minded that they think any representation of witchcraft (even if it is just a plot device and the person is on the side of good) is evil. It's kind of like Kate's attitude towards Angel when she first discovers he's a vamp (I don't care if he's good, he's still technically a vamp, ergo he's evil even if he does good deeds and fights for good), or the attitude of Gunn's old crew in "That Old Gang of Mine"....of course Buffy isn't offensive!

[Valyssia]

Oh please! Show me one wiccan that's gone to the funeral of a young man the died due to the ignorance promoted by their religion holding a sign that says, "Your son burns in Hell". These folks are obviously missing the definition of irony. They sit and point and say something is evil while...hummm...

Kinda makes the brain sizzle a bit if you stop too long to consider it.

Val

[vampmogs]

It is rather ironic they believe they promote love and peace on earth.. whilst condemning anyone who is homosexual or shares different viewpoints to them. Surley peace on earth would be accpeting anyone no matter what their sexual or cultural background and embracing them for who they are.

Instead we have these negeative lunitics pretty much trashing anything on TV as offensive, not realising they are offending most people out there who don't condone killing homosexuals.