Lovecraft and the Jossverse.

[Julian]

Okay. My two favourite guys in fiction.

Joss Whedon and H.P. Lovecraft

One deals with liberal attitudes and female emporment, the other's a reclusive, semi-racist that has given rise to some of the greatest horror novels in the world.

Lovecraft's themes seem to permeate the Jossverse. I don't have time to discuss all this in detail right now but maybe you guys can give your opinions on the similarities:

Jasmine. Her name can destroy her. Her touch can cause insanity.etc... very Lovecraft.

Sahjahn. very Cosmic horror because of his timejumping thing.

Glory. Lovecraft's demons were banished from hell dimensions and tended to cause insanity rather than destruction

The hellmouth. Nuff said. very Lovecraft.

Please give some feedback and like your opinions on this:

[Ravynnia]

The original S1 set-up, demons ruling the earth until they were banished, is a complete steal; and most of S1 hews close to HPL, down to the glurgly thing come up from the Hellmouth.

Someone should do a crossover where Giles' guitar-playing is the mad music that keeps the demons at bay .

Illyria, the hole in the world, definite echoes or tributes.

And "Sluggoth demon" in "Beneath You" ought to at least earn HPL royalties on moral principle.

[Rosamunde]

The original S1 set-up, demons ruling the earth until they were banished, is a complete steal

Hadn't made that connexion, but yeah, the idea could be carried from Lovecraft. Some of the first slayer moments seem very Lovecraftian when I think about it.

Haven't really read that much Lovecraft, but from what I have, I don't see that many connexions. Some ideas are a bit similar maybe, but Whedon's approach is so very very different from Lovecraft's that it's hard for me to read them as being similar. Whedon's world isn't one that depends on its myth. Lovecraft's storys often seem to be driven by a need to describe his ideas, the myths he wants to create, whereas in Whedon's, they myths are always secondary to the vibrant characters.

[Mabus]

I was writing something the other day when I noticed that "Illyria" has a surprisingly similar sound to "R'lyeh", just garbled a little. It actually makes a bit more sense that way--"Illyria" sounds Roman, and the Romans were actually a fairly late civilization. (R'lyeh being the ancient, sunken city where Cthulu waits.)

[Ravynnia]

Some ideas are a bit similar maybe, but Whedon's approach is so very very different from Lovecraft's that it's hard for me to read them as being similar. Whedon's world isn't one that depends on its myth.

HPL was so hopelessly out of tune with his own period that he's outlived it & become American canon; and despite Joss' different approach in BtVS, the abyssal hybrid bastard critters that come up time & again in both have a lot to do with uniquely american paranoia -- fears of being swallowed by "the Old World" & of dangers of sexual monstrosities & impurities, the feeling that their towns & cities, planted on what is an alien world, rouse the envy of vile but inescapably more powerful creatures.

[Valyssia]

While I can see your point I'm also driven by a compulsive need to be the social outcast here. Kidding of course... *laughs evilly*

Anyway... The point I want to get around to making is that there's absolutely nothing new under the sun. It could just be coincidence. In art you see trends come back around. You see things that you think are new and exciting. Then you stop a moment to really look and you realize that you saw that exact same thing some time ago at a museum. As an artist, whatever sort suits you, be it writing, painting, making jewelry, coloring in coloring books or whatever, you have to resign yourself to the fact that regardless how good you think your idea is... Someone else did it before you and they likely did it better.

It's the disease of the craft...

Valyssia