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Son of a Whore, Father of a God - The Connor Fanbase

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  • Son of a Whore, Father of a God - The Connor Fanbase

    Like the Title? I got it from a meta from LJ. I can't remember the name but it was an awesome rant. Also, the whole "the Destroyer" title is getting overused.

    Okay before I begin, let me just say that I don't see Connor with rose tinted glasses. He allowed a girl to be killed because he wuuuved Cordy so much, he was willing to delude himself that Jasmine was good because he needed to be loved, he would kill Fred to protect Jasmine, etc...

    Now, I always liked Connor - with the exception of the evil Cordy arc - and truth be told, I liked him a lot more as a raging psycho than the @[email protected]# version of him in ATF. I didn't know why I liked him at first, especially since he wasn't that good to watch on TV. It seemed instinctive but eventually, I understood why.

    Connor was capable of great love and at the same time, great hatred. I'm a sucker for that kind of character. I've encountered various different types of characters over the years, whether they be on TV, books, or video games, none of them gets me roused up like characters who are like Connor.

    You have the bad boy with the hard of gold, the b'aaawing emo, the redemption guy, etc... And then you have guys like Connor, who are very human in the way they jump from one extreme to the other. If Angel's an anti-hero then Connor is an even bigger anti-hero.

    I realized that this was what made the little bastard special to all the Connor fans, a small group as we may be. In a way, he reminded me of Cal Trask from East of Eden. On one hand, he could be taking care of drug addict or spilling his guts out to coma Cordy, while at the same time, he's cutting off ears or putting his father into the ocean.

    There's something deeply human and deeply symbolic about Connor in that he touches on a lot of human dilemmas - the need for love, belonging, family, purpose, etc... He's a very existential character actually, if you bother to look past the fugly hair and mopey attitude. He's also a great fighter, and I know he got his as handed to him several times, but the continuity of his fighting skills seems paradoxical, especially when you consider how he defeated Sahjahn, a being who kicked Angel's ass sideways.

    That said, there's something very manly (even manlier than Angel or Spike, who are considered the Alpha males of this fandom) about him, even though he's freakin androgynous. Cutting off ears? Surviving in a hell dimension with an 18th century marine sergeant/puritan. Killing Sahjahn. I might as well call him Conan the Destroyer.

    I believe that if they had cast someone else (someone more attractive) as Connor, then the character would have a larger fanbase. Another flaw is that they didn't explore his time on Quortoth - it's easier to sympathize with someone if you know what they've been through. And of course, the little Cordy thing.

    There was a lot of potential there I believe but unfortunately, Lynch and Joss decided to perform a complete reboot on him and ignore his past instead of building on it. Why am I pissed off about this? Well, it's because all or most of the issues which were dealt in S3 and S4 have been swept under the rug as if they never happened. The S5 memory swap had a lot of portential but I also believe that as in the past, that potential has been wasted.

    Connor was a gritty, human, injured character. That was who he was and now, Connor fans (I don't speak for all, only those who preferred the one before the mindwipe) have to get this character who is nothing like the original. Wheew stopping the rant now.

    Okay, that's basically my position on the great Destroyer. So if there are any Connor fans here(and I suspect there should be some other than me), feel free to drop by and discuss him.

    Some excellent Connor essays that you might like:

    http://www.chiefseattlereviews.net/connor.htm

    http://ros-fod.livejournal.com/75576.html
    Last edited by Troll; 12-03-09, 07:22 AM.

  • #2
    At first, I would never, ever re-cast Connor. Vincent Kartheiser is maybe not DB v2.0 in his looks. But after seeing all the actors (minus Alexis Denisof ... stupid tv people!) in other roles I think more and more that VK has the most talent of all (BtVS and Ats cast). He was young when he played the miserable and destroyed Connor ... and he did it already very well. And the brilliance that is his actwork in MM, is something no other Buffyverse actor or actress showed in any show or movie. All the honor to VK and don't they dare to re-cast somebody from the 'me pretty' school just to make girls swoon. Pfff. Besides VK is far from ugly, just not the standard hunk.

    Well that rant is done;

    Connor alwats departed me in camps, on the one side I thought that his character was very well written, acted and used. But I had a hard time liking him in season 4, it was just too hard. I felt sorry for him, understood very well how he became the person he was and he was fleshed out enough to understand his motives. I couldn't like him or enjoy his scenes. On the other side his speech to coma!Cordy is fantastic and amazing actingwork and writing.

    After the big mindwipe he became quick one of my favourite characters, it made it easy to forgive his season 4 crimes because we could see how good, sweet and funny he would be without the sad youth. I love how much he loves being a hero and how easy he is one, no matter how low he fell, he never used his powers to do criminal things, and also now we sense nothing of a temptation to use his powers for his own good. Which makes him pretty unique in the Buffyverse. I love the new Connor, but his current story is more regular and less special than his story in season 4.
    Last edited by Nina; 12-03-09, 08:50 AM.

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    • #3
      Well, I just adore Connor to pieces (and I agree, I like that they didn't pick a pretty boy for Connor). While VK is a bit androgynous, he still has a masculinity and edginess that goes against that look. IMO, he comes across a lot more masculine than some actors who are supposed to have the "alpha male" appearance.

      DB and JM are thought of the alpha males of the franchise because their personalities also sell it. You can put those two against actors who have the look and might even be larger than them, but they still pull off the alpha superiority vibe over them. VK might not have the traditional look, but his personality also sells a stronger vibe than his appearance might indicate. They are among the actors who really know how to give a withering glare or maniacal, gleeful grin.

      VK sort of deviated from the vibes given off by his fellow early '90s child actors (he was in The Indian in the Cupboard and Alaska). He has an edgier personality that suits him to, IMO, more interesting roles than people probably expected of him back then (long, floppy-haired, androgynous kid actor).

      Also, the fact that his teeth aren't perfect and white (they're a tad yellow) make me believe he might have lived in Quar'toth where the only other person was someone from the 18th century (I could go into a whole other ramble about my love for Keith Szarabajka). I feel the same way about DB's chicken pox pock marks and JM's snaggle tooth. I'm glad that while these are very, very attractive-looking people, it helps me believe it with things like teeth that don't look totally perfect and pock marks. Though historically, even born in the '60s still produces actors who are going to look a lot better than their historical counterparts (I'm scarred for life from finding out one of my idols had about six teeth left in his mouth--I'm fine with leaving out that part of history). But today's actors fit those parts even less and it actually is a known casting problem.

      Speaking of Mad Men, I read somewhere that they had trouble finding actors who didn't have perfect whitened teeth and those that fit more of the '50s-early '60s standards of beauty. It's very much the same thing. It only strengthened the modernness of the Buffy character when SMG, for some ungodly reason, decided to get her teeth whitened in season 4 to a totally blinding shade of white (see I Will Remember You).

      Also, while VK looks very little like DB, he actually looks a lot like JB to me. I think that's what they ended up going for, so they didn't have to cast a DB mini-jock. I think the character works with the Peter Pan vibe that he was introduced with. I honestly don't think the character would have worked with a more alpha male actor. It always amused me that Connor's name was Connor and the fact that Vincent Kartheiser has a very similar vibe to Edward Furlong's John Connor character. The size disparity also helped sell that DB and VK weren't just 10 years apart. Though it might have sold the idea that Angel is going to watch his son grow old (like in The Tales of the Vampires story, "Father").

      While I definitely think that seasons 3-4 is really the penultimate point in Connor's storyline and the arc that most defines him, I do like him the whole way through. Though I have a special soft spot for tormented, unhealthy Connor.

      I REALLY hope that someday the comics go back and fill in something about the time Connor spent in Quar'toth with Holtz. It has the potential to be very moving and relevant. We sort of saw a small glimpse of Quar'toth in Connor's First Night story (apparently facing a demon with a long tongue while a small child holding a dagger in Holtz's arms), but I would really love to see more.

      I've also always adored the idea that Connor should have an arc where Connor gets to interact with Darla. While Darla was sent as an emissary of the PtB, it would be interesting to see her get to be the mother she never got to be except in that one scene (and Connor was too sick and manipulated at that time to listen). I would love something where Connor does more thinking about who his family is. It'd also be interesting to see how the Reillys feel about knowing Connor isn't their son in a post-Hell-A world. And it would be interesting to see Connor reflect on Holtz (which would be a perfect opportunity to flashback into Quar'toth).
      Last edited by NileQT87; 12-03-09, 12:06 PM.

      "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
      "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

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      • #4
        All the honor to VK and don't they dare to re-cast somebody from the 'me pretty' school just to make girls swoon. Pfff. Besides VK is far from ugly, just not the standard hunk.
        Well, that's show business. I wouldn't recast Vincent either, but making girls swoon is good for ratings. And yeah, VK isn't ugly and, neither was Amber Benson and Alexis Denisof in season 3, who at one point or the other were accused as being unattractive. The problem with Connor in terms of attractiveness was that he was portrayed in the same way as Tara and season 3 Wesley.

        Well, I just adore Connor to pieces (and I agree, I like that they didn't pick a pretty boy for Connor). While VK is a bit androgynous, he still has a masculinity and edginess that goes against that look. IMO, he comes across a lot more masculine than some actors who are supposed to have the "alpha male" appearance.

        DB and JM are thought of the alpha males of the franchise because their personalities also sell it. You can put those two against actors who have the look and might even be larger than them, but they still pull off the alpha superiority vibe over them. It's more than a look or a muscle build. Marc Blucas is an example where he looks like an alpha male, but it's very clear in The Yoko Factor who has the more alpha boss personality. VK might not have the traditional look, but his personality also sells a stronger vibe than his appearance might indicate.
        Exactly. I can't add anything more to what you've said, except perhaps, that like dear old dad, Connor could carry his own team. He's lead groups on both the show and the comics, so he is certainly among the few characters who could certainly carry his own spin off.
        While I definitely think that seasons 3-4 is really the penultimate point in Connor's storyline and the arc that most defines him, I do like him the whole way through. Though I have a special soft spot for tormented, unhealthy Connor.
        Me too. I liked him better on the show too.

        I REALLY hope that someday the comics go back and fill in something about the time Connor spent in Quar'toth with Holtz. It has the potential to be very moving and relevant. We sort of saw a small glimpse of Quar'toth in Connor's First Night story (apparently facing a demon with a long tongue while a small child holding a dagger in Holtz's arms), but I would really love to see more.

        I've also always adored the idea that Connor should have an arc where Connor gets to interact with Darla. While Darla was sent as an emissary of the PtB, it would be interesting to see her get to be the mother she never got to be except in that one scene (and Connor was too sick and manipulated at that time to listen). I would love something where Connor does more thinking about who his family is. It'd also be interesting to see how the Reillys feel about knowing Connor isn't their son in a post-Hell-A world. And it would be interesting to see Connor reflect on Holtz (which would be a perfect opportunity to flashback into Quar'toth).
        Agreed.

        Like I've said, he has a lot of stories left in him, as well as the potential to be the most hardcore character in BTVS because of his personality and background. So they could definitely take his character in a lot of different directions. However, I only wish that it would be a dark and morally ambiguous direction. The original Connor is after all, dark, cunning, non committal and ambiguous.

        Comment


        • #5
          I'll be the first to admit, as many of you already know, that I have little love for Connor in season four. Whilst I understand the circumstances of his childhood and how and where he grew up, I can't get over some of the heinous things he did or how easily he could be manipulated. I don't consider his childhood an excuse for his actions, especially when you look at Angel in comparison. Who had to go through 100 years of torture in a hell dimension and turned out far better.

          However, rather than bang on about that again I will say I really enjoyed him in Ats season five and 'After the Fall.' Seeing the well adjusted Connor made me be able to appreciate his character. I especially loved his interactions with Angel the best. I found it really endearing how he was able to support his father and understand why he did the things he did, when if it had taken place in season three/season four he’d be the first to condemn him. Saying he was “grateful” to Angel in ‘Not Fade Away’ must have been a glimmer of sunshine in Angel’s life when at that point the was sorely regretting taking over Wolfram and Hart.

          I understand many people may find this new Connor more like Connor-lite in comparison to his previous self but it's a relief for someone like me to finally be able to enjoy his character. I loved messed up characters as much as the next person, after all I'm a huge fan of Faith, but I could never stomach that Connor. So I'm all for this new healthier happy Connor.

          Giving Connor a relationship with Gwen was interesting and continues the pattern of Connor being involved with people who Angel has been connected with. There was Angel/Gwen sexual tension, as well as Angel/Kate being toyed with by the writers, we had the big obvious one with Cordy and even the revelation Connor has a “thing for slayers” which Evil Cordy recognises as an inherent trait from his father. I’m not sure exactly why the writers like to play with that idea.

          I also enjoyed the brief Connor/Spike relationship in 'After the Fall.' Although we didn't get heaps on it what we did get was very well done and I was happy to see that Connor wasn't another thing Spike/Angel could fight over, or another thing that Spike would feel short-changed about. However, it did make me realise some of the missed opportunities between Connor/Wesley. Wes was a huge part in why Connor ended up in Quortoth. I always felt they should have explored their relationship more and how Connor feels about Wesley and likewise. Connor could have resented Wesley for that and it was a pity we never heard his thoughts on it one way or another. We heard Connor’s resentment towards Angel, “you let him get me” but never on the guy who actually stole him in the first place.

          I think the things I’d like to see most from Connor now would be establishing himself as a full blown hero out of his father’s shadow. He’s easily capable of doing it and was always teetering on the edge of it in earlier seasons, it’s something Angel believed he could be and it’d be really interesting to see.

          I wouldn’t mind seeing him interact with Buffy either, given her past with Angel and how it’s always unclear how much she knew about Connor, if at all. This new well adjusted Connor would go down much better than the snarky, spiteful Connor Faith was confronted with.

          I also wouldn't mind further exploration as to what Connor is exactly, and why he is the way he is. He was knocked out by Lorne's demon spell yet the doctors and Angel's senses all say he's completely human. That doesn't make sense either way and they never really explained that. I wouldn’t mind it getting fleshed out, the fact Angel and Darla were both vampires and yet produced a human offspring is really interesting and one can’t help but think Angel’s soul may have had something to do with that.

          Sadly, unlike everybody else in this thread I was never all that big on VK. I don't mean to sound harsh but he never really "did it for me" as an actor. I had the same problem with Adam Busch who's mannerisms and voice irritated me and I'm sorry to say that the same happened with Vincent. Perhaps that's one the reasons I'm able to enjoy Connor more in the comics and why I find it hard to sympathise with early Connor and his sneering ways, even when I knew the situation he grew up in. If it was an actor I enjoyed I may have been able to be more patient with the character. There's only a few actors in the verse who grate on me, Vincent, Adam and Christian Kate are the culprits. It’s a combination of the actors and their characters that make all three characters fairly unappealing and irritating to me. And I hate that because in regards to Connor especially, it’s a character who I really wanted to like.
          Last edited by vampmogs; 13-03-09, 12:30 PM.

          ~ Banner by Nina ~

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          • #6
            I was always fine with VK as Connor, despite the poor reception of the character and the actor.

            I actually agree with Nile in terms of season 3-4 Connor because his arc is so closely tied in with Angel.

            Angel is the in many ways the first of his kind and paradox to boot. He is a unholy demon cursed with a human soul, seeking redemption. He has been shown to be ambivalent about his condition both in term of living a fulfilling day by day existence but also in regards to how he views and connects with others.

            On a personal level he has always wanted family and sought a meaningful existence and this is exactly what Connor craves. In 'Slouching' he is instantly drawn to the family especially the teenager. I actually found his connection with Angel far more fascinating in the early days because despite being raised to hate him he on some level wanted to bond with him. He also seemed hurt when he thought Angel didn't want him there. If he hated him, why would he care?

            I suppose I found the dysfunction of Season's 3 and 4 added a lot more scope to their relationship and the characters themselves. I love the interesting parallel between the characters and also their respective 'battles' with Jasmine. She presents meaning and purpose in Connor's life however he ultimately he's shown the lie and resents them for it because for the first time, he's had no conflict in terms of beliefs.

            Holtz was the primary reference in his life and he felt that if he embraced Angel he would be betraying the father he loved. However contrary to popular belief, Connor did feel conflicted about rejecting the father (Angel) who obviously loved him. He felt he didn't belong anywhere and no matter which family he embraced he was betraying someone, it's even shown that he felt guilty for sending Angel to the bottom of the ocean. Finally with Jasmine, he has the chance to have a purpose without the conflict.

            Angel of course hoped the defeat Jasmine not only for the fate of the world or even his friends (who he believed might have died when he want to that demon dimension.) the High Priest said that he was doing it for Connor and he may have been right. By defeating Jasmine he hoped to connect with his son.

            In amongst the randomness Angel tried to connect and place meaning whereby Connor was losing all meaning and reason.

            I too wanted to see some elements of Connor's memories of Quor'toth and the psychological effects it may have. The reason being is that I like continuity of character and if there is no aftermath, it feels like and arc wasted. Maybe I need to catch up with the comics and see how Connor copes with the memories and also how his relationship is with his father. Before we saw our boy hero deal with the concept of being a champion and finding meaning in his actions. This shouldn't be ignored and it should be a theme to be revisited.

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            • #7
              I also wouldn't mind further exploration as to what Connor is exactly, and why he is the way he is. He was knocked out by Lorne's demon spell yet the doctors and Angel's senses all say he's completely human. That doesn't make sense either way and they never really explained that. I wouldn’t mind it getting fleshed out, the fact Angel and Darla were both vampires and yet produced a human offspring is really interesting and one can’t help but think Angel’s soul may have had something to do with that.
              This has inspired several questions and maybe someone would like to share some thoughts on it.

              1.) Do you believe that Jasmine was completely responsible for Connor's creation?

              I don't believe it was. Firstly, because every one who served Jasmine (Skip and the High Priest) see Jasmine as the greatest force in the universe. And if that is the case then Jasmine would also have controlled all the other various factors which would culminate in Connor's birth, like Darla's resurrection in season 1 by Wolfram and Hart. Does this mean that Jasmine is also in charge of WR&H? That's a lot of fanwanking.

              The second reason is Sahjahn. If Connor's only purpose is to father Jasmine into existence then what the hell is all that crap about him killing Sahjahn? I believe that Connor's destiny is extends beyond being just a sperm donor.

              2.) Which brings us to: Do you believe that Connor has hell god sperm?

              If he can father one hell god/fallen power/whatever, doesn't it also mean that he can father tons of them? It would be fun for Angel and Connor to bond over the "evils of sex."

              3.)What is Connor?

              I believe he's an anomaly, like a flaw in reality. Not just unique or something, but a real error in the system. Think about it. Sahjahn, who can jump from one point in time to another, who can jump into other dimensions, can't run from him. If this is so then it can be inferred that Connor is immortal, because otherwise, Sahjahn could simply save himself by jumping into another timeline where he's already dead, instead of hunting him through Holtz.

              Second reason is that it had to be Angel and Darla. These two had at some point, had their souls "restored" to them, so like vampmogs, I believe that there's something to that.

              Last reason is of course, Jasmine. He gave birth to her, he punched a hole through her head. Nuff said.

              4.) You like Connor with Dawn?

              I've read a lot of fics about this pairing but frankly I don't like it, primarily because it keeps turning into fluffy teen drama, and Connor's character isn't really teen drama. He fathered a child. He lead an army for Jasmine. His foster father killed himself to trick him. He doesn't trust Angel much. etc... So with all due respect to Dawn fans, Connor is too grimdark for Dawn, who is a little sweet.
              Last edited by Troll; 20-03-09, 01:15 PM.

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              • #8
                Thanks for the questions

                1.) Do you believe that Jasmine was completely responsible for Connor's creation?

                It's a really hard question because it goes back to that whole discussion of destiny and free will that we've been talking about in the 'Lorne's Powers' thread. I do believe Jasmine probably did create him, "an impossible birth to make one possible" but at the same time I can't rule out it was "destiny" for this to happen. Can higher beings be pawns of destiny as well?

                As Troll rightfully points out, even if Jasmine is the sole reason Connor was created it doesn't mean his sole purpose has to do with Jasmine. He was mentioned in the prophecy about Sahjan and it came true.

                2.) Which brings us to: Do you believe that Connor has hell god sperm?

                I'm not sure! I think it was a combination of Cordy and Connor's blood that allowed Jasmine to be born. Cordy's blood was able to break her spell after all. Cordy's a half demon and a pretty powerful one at that, if the white glowy "nightlight" she turned on every once in a while is an indication to go by. Not to mention a former Higher Being, perhaps she was the only one "worthy" of being Jasmine's mother?

                3.)What is Connor?

                I couldn't possibly answer this one, I'm not really sure what he is.

                4.) You like Connor with Dawn?

                I don't have anything textual to give an opinion on it one way or another. They've never shared a scene together so I've always been confused by this idea they'd make the perfect couple? How could anyone possibly judge that?

                I think it stems from the fact that Buffy/Angel were together and are pretty significant in each other’s lives so people think it would be neat to have Dawn (Buffy's sister/daughter figure) and Connor (Angel's son) hook up. The "next generation" kind of thing. That and a lot of people think they're both pretty whiney so they think they'd be a natural choice for one another

                But I don’t really understand it to be honest, why would they be a good match just because their parental figures were? I'd be curious to see them interact with eachother because I think that could be fun, but I'd have to see their scenes together before I could make any sort of opinion on wether or not they'd be a good couple.

                In fact it's more likely Connor would be interested in Buffy before he would Dawn given how much he seems to take after his father in that department and his thing for older women
                Last edited by vampmogs; 20-03-09, 02:03 PM.

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                • #9
                  1.) Do you believe that Jasmine was completely responsible for Connor's creation?

                  I think Angel answered this best. People get born for all sorts of reasons.


                  2.) Which brings us to: Do you believe that Connor has hell god sperm?

                  Why would he have hell god sperm? Jasmine wasn't even an hell god.

                  3.)What is Connor?

                  A being with most of the qualities of a human being but with many of the abilities of vampires without their weaknesses. Essentially though, Connor is the first of his kind.

                  4.) You like Connor with Dawn?

                  What? Two teens who shouldn't exist, hooking up? As it's been said, Connor likes his older women. I could see it as the awkward date whereby neither one of them want to be there. Probably could end up as friends though.
                  Last edited by kana; 20-03-09, 09:10 PM.

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                  • #10
                    In fact it's more likely Connor would be interested in Buffy before he would Dawn given how much he seems to take after his father in that department and his thing for older women
                    and slayers!

                    1.) Do you believe that Jasmine was completely responsible for Connor's creation?
                    no, i've always thought of it as more of jasmine saw an opportunity and seized it, not that she created it. but its been a while since i've watched angel through, so i might be missing something.

                    2.) Do you believe that Connor has hell god sperm?
                    lol! i don't think so. i think connor was unique (or an error, as troll said), as was cordelia, and that's why jasmine chose them to be her parents.

                    3.)What is Connor?
                    human.

                    i guess i just see him as a human with special powers, like buffy. in the same way that buffy is able to confuse spike's chip even though she is human, maybe there is just enough of a glitch with connor, so that he even though he is human lorne's demon spell doesn't register otherwise.

                    4.) You like Connor with Dawn?
                    ack! no! i don't even see how people get this! lol. dawn would never put up with connor, i don't think. plus, connor would more than likely go after buffy, with his love of older women, slayers, and a tendency to follow after angel concerning women.

                    on that note, i know vincent kartheiser is not everyone's cup of tea, but i happen to think he's cute. not gorgeous, mind you. but certainly adorable. <3
                    Oz: Sometimes when I'm sitting in class... You know, I'm not thinking about class, 'cause that would never happen. I think about kissing you. And it's like everything stops. It's like, it's like freeze frame. Willow kissage.

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                    • #11
                      1.) Do you believe that Jasmine was completely responsible for Connor's creation?
                      No, even if she influenced the situation. I actually like to think that this is her doing because I'm not keen on the original idea. But it's always a combination, if Angel refused to sleep with Darla or vice versa, there would never be a Connor. No matter how many loopholes Jasmine created.

                      2.) Do you believe that Connor has hell god sperm?
                      Let's hope not. I think that Jasmine wanted a unique father so she made/used Connor. Connor probably has very normal sperm, just like slayers won't make superbabies. Maybe a kid with some extra powers, but no godly powers.

                      3.)What is Connor?
                      My guess, a hybrid between a human and a vampire. And lucky for him, he has the best of both sides. I'm not sure if he is like slayers, because slayers are born human and it was pretty clear that Connor was already this hybrid before his birth.

                      4.) You like Connor with Dawn?
                      As friends it would be interesting, they can talk about a lot of things. But as a couple, nope. It's like putting two people together because they play the same role. Like Joyce and Giles because they are both 'old' and 'parent'. It's one of my problems with Kennedy & Willow in season 7 as well, it felt more like "I'm gay, you're gay ... let's have sex."

                      And Dawn is too young and girly for Connor. Kate, Gwen and Faith are three tomboys and at least 5 years older. Besides I'm all for Gwonner.

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                      • #12
                        There was a fic I read once where Connor was interested in Kennedy, which wasn't mutual and he had to go Angel for advice.
                        sigpic

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                        • #13
                          Got a Few Questions for Everybody.

                          1) Do You Think Connor became a Gary Stu in the comic book?


                          This was brought up before, and although I won't agree with this statement because 1) I haven't read every issue of After the Falls and 2) I'm a little biased, I do see that Connor went from one extreme to another. So I get where people are coming from when they say that Connor is a Stu in After the Fall.

                          2) Which is the real Connor? Steven Holtz or Connor Reilly?

                          This was touched on a board on 4 chan, but it wasn't taken really seriously. So I'd like to bring this here. Everybody loves Connor Reilly - that's the guy in Home, season 5 and After the Fall - but he's just a bag memories, a facade if you will. Everybody hated Steven Holtz - because he was a whiny you know what. Which of them is real now?

                          I guess it's really a question of identity, but I'd like to hear your opinions before I discuss mine.

                          3) Do you think Connor will go back to the Reilly's?

                          He did say that demon fighting wasn't his thing in season 5. Also, if his new persona and sense of balance is tied to being the normal college boy then how can he live a life that's the exact opposite of it?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            1) Do You Think Connor became a Gary Stu in the comic book?

                            Yes, at the moment it doesn't bother me that much. Because like Mogs already said, it's nice to see him happy and it's great to see his good relation with his father.

                            But I'm happy that Armstrong brought his whinyness as bit back. He is not even 20, let him make mistakes and be annoying at times.

                            2) Which is the real Connor? Steven Holtz or Connor Reilly?
                            Both are, but I think the latter is Connor without the terrible childhood and screwed up mind. So if you want to judge him and compare him with others, it's better to use the second version of him. But in the end both are.

                            I think that the current version with both memories is the closest we get to the Connor we would've seen when he was raised by Angel.

                            3) Do you think Connor will go back to the Reilly's?
                            No, I think that he is unable to do that. It's clear that he got his memories back in Origin, but it didn't hit him until ATF. And I doubt that he can go school while knowing what out there, especially since he likes saving people and be a hero.

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                            • #15
                              1.) Do you believe that Jasmine was completely responsible for Connor's creation?

                              I honestly think that she had no part in it. I think she took credit for it though. I don't like to think that almost all the events or feelings that took place on the show were through the persuasion of some demented hell god. I mean she even took credit for bringing Angel back from hell, maybe she did do that, but that's another thing that upsets me.


                              2.) Which brings us to: Do you believe that Connor has hell god sperm?

                              Like most other people say, I think he has normal sperm, considering he's basically human with a few extra perks. Perhaps his kids would have super stength or something along those lines. Because unlike the slayers, his parents weren't human.

                              3.)What is Connor?

                              I think that he is human, but sort of hybridy, with the super strength and all.

                              4.) You like Connor with Dawn?

                              Well they are both whiny teenagers, who shouldn't exist, and resent the people close to them from time to time. I don't really like them together, but friends wise, yes. They share a lot of the same problems and I think they could help each other out.
                              Oz: Hey.
                              Oz: That girl. Who is she?
                              Devon: She's an exchange student. I think she's from South America.
                              Oz: No, not her. The Eskimo!

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                              • #16
                                Sign me up! I admire Connor. He's one of my favorite AtS characters. I believe he is a bit misunderstood and stuff. I'm willing to give out my opinion in the two sets of questions provided.

                                1.) Do you believe that Jasmine was completely responsible for Connor's creation?

                                No I don't rekon. Connor became a grown man before Cordelia even ascended.


                                2.) Which brings us to: Do you believe that Connor has hell god sperm?

                                Absouletly not. He was mainly swayed under Jasmine's control even as she possessed Cordelia. That's my opinion.

                                3.)What is Connor?

                                Human. Although his parents (Angel and Darla) are both vampires.


                                4.) You like Connor with Dawn?

                                I don't see why not. That pairing seems possible, but we'll just have to wait and see.

                                1) Do You Think Connor became a Gary Stu in the comic book?

                                I don't read the comics, but from I've known he probably have.

                                2) Which is the real Connor? Steven Holtz or Connor Reilly?

                                Connor Reilly seems to be more realistic to me.

                                3) Do you think Connor will go back to the Reilly's?

                                I certainly doubt it. With his memories coming back to him, Connor will more than likely be staying with the fang gang.
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                                NOT FADE AWAY

                                An Angel continuity/crossover with Power Rangers
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