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  • Has Your Opinion Changed Over Time?

    Hey

    The last few days I've been looking over old archives on Buffyforums and even managed to fine the odd Buffyworld one as well and was surprised by how much I've personally changed in regards to a range of topics concerning 'Btvs' and 'Ats.' Characters I apparently enjoyed a lot back then I don't so much anymore, characters I had little patience for back then I now view differently ect. I even saw posts I made about ships that I disagree with now.

    My best guesses are that after multiple re-watches of the series you start to view things differently, that and how other people's opinions can influence your opinion?

    Has anyone else’s opinion changed on things and how so?

    Things I’ve noticed I’ve changed;

    1) I found an old comment when I said I don’t like Buffy/Angel very much when I enjoy them a lot more now

    2) Found a comment where I said Spike was a nuisance in Ats s5 which I don’t think so now

    3) Found a comment where I ragged on Ats for being very inconsistent when now I find the beauty in it’s ‘unsystematic’ formula (thanks Kana )

    4) Found old comments with me completely defending Buffy in ‘Empty Places’ wherein now I’d be more likely to side with the Scoobies if I honestly had to..

    5) Found a comment where I preferred season seven to season one and season five to season four whereas now it’s more than likely I’d prefer season four to five and season one to seven.

    6) Found my "top ten" characters have changed, Anya used to be in there and now I don't think much of her character at all...

    Anyone else had a change of heart? And if so, why do you think that is?

    Vamps

    ~ Banner by Nina ~

  • #2
    Great thread

    My changes have so much to do with reading too much fanfic for my benefit and less watching of the show. When I started re-watching the show, almost two years ago, my views changed a lot.

    - I used to blindly hate Buffy, she was this selfish, ungrateful little bitch –so much Buffy bashing in slash fic sadly- but then when doing a BtVS marathon, I've discovered the beauty of the character and fell in love with her. Right now, she's my most favorite female character.

    - I used to hate characters with passion –Buffy, Andrew, Riley… etc- but now I find myself loving all the characters and appreciating them for who they represented. I find hating a character so useless and silly, especially when it's so extreme that you can't ever admit the virtues of said character. I can say that I'm not that interested in some characters (Tara, Andrew, Dark Wesley for example) but I don't hate them… it's just pointless.

    - I used to despise Spuffy, but now I really like it.

    - I used to be one of those Xander fanatics, who whitewash his faults and think that other characters were ungrateful to him, but now I can actually see the character's flaws and how much his friends appreciated him, and that made me love the series –and Xander- even more.

    -I find Buffy/Riley an interesting pairing with so many layers…. And I feel sad thinking I'm one of the very few who can see that.

    - My top three male characters is still the same, but my top three female characters change a lot. Willow used to be my fave, then it changed to Anya, then Dawn, and now it’s Buffy.

    - I used to think Dawn was annoying, but now I can't get enough of her. Especially in fanfic.
    Last edited by Sosa lola; 07-03-09, 04:02 AM.
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    Halfrek gives Spike the curse that will change his entire life. Teenage Dirtbag

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    • #3
      Some of my changes happened because of characters crossing over and some happened because of the comics.

      1. I hated Wesley during his BTVS stint but grew to love him as a character later in ATS. Talk about a positive moment in character growth.

      2. Really really liked Anya, once upon a time, looking back, I don't know why.

      3. Was never a fan of Connor until the very end of ATS and then only beginning to tolerate him. The comics have really made me care about him.

      4. I never liked Faith for the entire series (both) run. The comics have changed that. I like her now.

      5. During the first viewing of season 3, I thought The Mayor was the lamest character in the history of characters. He is one of my favorite villians now.

      6. Years ago I would have said that season 5 was among my favorites, after multiple viewing of all the seasons (seven aside) I find that there are only a very few handful of episodes that I really like. In retrospect, I now find Glory to be a pretty cheesy and lame bad.

      Whosoever Shall Call Upon the Name of the Lord Shall Be Saved!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by cheryl4ba View Post

        4. I never liked Faith for the entire series (both) run. The comics have changed that. I like her now.
        I'm the same - though I'd say it's a combination of Faith in season 4 of Angel and the comics.

        Other things I've changed on...not all that much that I can remember. I'm slightly less angry with season 5 of Angel now. Though just as angry about Hole in the World as I ever was

        I enjoy Xander more in the comics, too.


        -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --

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        • #5
          I have some things that have definitely changed:

          -I used to think that Buffy and Angel were the greatest shows on TV, but that was mostly due to the fact that they were the first TV shows I ever properly got into, looking back and comparing them to other shows that are completely different in terms of genre, they're not as good as I first thought.

          - I used to think that all of the villains on the TV show were great, I remember especially liking the First because of how it could be any dead person and thought that was great in terms of story-telling, but when I look back a majority of them actually sucked. I think the greatest of the villains would be Angelus/Drusilla (Spike doesn't really count in that half of the season because he didn't agree with what they were doing), Glory (even if the overall arc was incredibly flawed in terms of writing) and Dark Willow because of the character's motivation to do what she did.

          -The villains on Angel were a lot better than those on Buffy, especially the Beast and Jasmine.

          - My overall favourite characters have changed somewhat, Cordelia is still one of my favourites, but I used to really love Anya, Willow, Fred and Wesley and I hated the character of Buffy, but now I think that Buffy is probably my second favourite, along with Faith, Darla, Kennedy and Angel.

          -I used to think that season 7 was the best Buffy season, probably because it was the first one I saw properly, but I used to think that the whole arc and the introduction of the Potentials was great, but looking back it wasn't.

          -The only Potential I used to like was Vi and I hated Kennedy, but having read the comics and re-watching the season I actually love Kennedy and I think The Killer In Me is one of the best season 7 episodes.

          -My favourite episode of Buffy used to be The Gift, but now it's The Body because of how the show deals with a natural death.

          They're the only things I can think of right now, the only thing that probably has remained unchanged is that I prefer Angel (the series).
          Last edited by Matt; 28-04-09, 08:03 AM.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Matt View Post
            I have some things that have definitely changed:

            -I used to think that Buffy and Angel were the greatest shows on TV, but that was mostly due to the fact that they were the first TV shows I ever properly got into, looking back and comparing them to other shows that are completely different in terms of genre, they're not as good as I first thought.
            Here too, if you compare the plotholes, acting, writing and inconsistenties with other shows, Ats and BtVS aren't that amazing. More a decent series but there are enough series that own the Whedon series in quality.



            For me the biggest changes are in the character department. Years ago I loved Anya and liked Willow. While not being a big fan of Connor and Gunn. The moment I start thinking about the character Anya she fell out my top 10 characters. Her humor was no longer enough. Willow was one of my favourites when I was young, but her babytalk, behavior and her terrible redemption story made me dislike her character. I think that she shares the last spot in my list together with Andrew now. Oh and Andrew, never liked him but the disliking came later. On the other side, ATF made me realise how much I love Gunn, he is one of those characters who you don't notice until they're gone. His humor, his role of the normal guy who only hit things and his honesty ... I for one am really glad that He is alive and hopefully he will be back. Connor was always a character that I felt bad for, but it really helped that they showed how good, sweet and funny he is without all the issues. Now it's easier to feel bad for what happened to him and I really like him now. I also like Dawn more, still no fan of the way she is pushed in the series (UO ALERT!, I don't really like season 5), but I do like the character very much.
            Also Cordelia replaced Xander as my third favourite character, she passed also Buffy on my list who is now on spot 5. Which is a change but around season 4, she was together with Angel in my number one spot. And my love for Angel is also more extreme.

            Other things my opinion changed about:

            I used to prefer season 7 over season 6, those two are in my eyes still the worst seasons any of the shows ever made. But season 6 kicks season 7's butt.

            Innocence is no longer my favourite episode, it's Passion now. And for Ats, it's no longer Orpheus but Reprise.

            I always though that Whedon was the best writer, but that changed and I think that Tim Minear is the best writer. (And he is by far the best writer to write Angel's character.)

            I always thought that Darla was not very pretty (How is that possible? I still don't know), now I think that Darla is one of the most beautiful women on either show. Love her voice as well.

            And I changed from a die-hard Bangel shipper in a person who ships Angel with any of his girlfriends/flirts. Which also means that I no longer dislike Angel/Cordelia. Still no fan of their season 3 storyline (okay still not disliking it very much), but YW and ATF were great. If their whole relation was like this I would wave the Cordelia/Angel flags like no other.

            And I don't like the Gift that much, I used to love it but it bores me now and the deux-ex-machina/plothole bothers me.
            Last edited by Nina; 07-03-09, 03:20 PM.

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            • #7
              1. How I view Buffy...I only watched season 6 and 7 live, and so my initial impression was a negative one. After going back and being able to watch and rewatch old episodes, I came away with a far greater appreciation for her character. Like Sosa, she is one of my very fav female characters.

              2. How I veiw Angel. I used to hate "Captain Forehead"...all I could do was sneer at him. But although I very much prefer Spike to him as my fav male character, I still love him. He is a great, heroic, knight in shining armour kind of guy, and as I got older I fell out of love (just a little) with the bad boy.

              3. How I view ships. I used to be purely Spuffy. All Spuffy, all the time. I didn't even want to hear about other ships. After being away from the online fandom for a couple of years though, I've really mellowed out. For one, I don't hate Buffy/Riley. Riley isn't such a bad character...ya, he was a little boring compared to vampires, but he was such a sweet, genuine guy. And I think that his and Buffy's relationship was a little more complex and layered than a lot of people give it credit for. Also, Bangel. I've developed some Bangel lovin'! Very different from Spuffy, and yet, I can put myself in her shoes with Angel, too. I see why she loves him. Another one would be Tara/Willow. I used to hate them, because Tara made Oz go away. I miss Oz. But Tara/Willow was a great relationship too...and I felt so much more for Willow when I watched season 6/early 7 in the last year, then I did when it was origionally airing.
              I have loved you. - Ser Jorah Mormont

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              • #8
                Well as for me going through some of the old threads made interesting reading too, especially some of the old hate threads because I note that judging by the opinions expressed by some on there compared with now, maybe not so much has changed after all, which is interesting.

                Things haven't altered all that much for me either except in the following...

                I Used to think that when it came to writing Joss was god. That opinion has long since fallen out of the window.

                I used to think Andrews character was entertaining in the show. Now he grates on me like nails down a chalkboard.

                I used to prefer BTVS miles over AtS, but lately I'm starting to favor AtS more then Buffy.

                I used to like Wesley's character, now I simply adore him.
                Last edited by sueworld; 07-03-09, 04:06 PM.

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                • #9
                  Love this thread, it is interesting to see how we have changed.

                  - Riley: Probably my biggest change, I never used to be a huge fan of him especially the end of Season 4 and Season 5 but I really like him now. I actually think he is the best for Buffy and that he is quite a funny character.

                  - Living Conditions: This is very new to me and only changed the other night when I watched it. I used to hate this episode and found it really boring but I think it is a really fun episode now. I like Buffy in this episode.

                  - I have always liked Angel but I never used to be overly bothered about his character, but he became my favourite character overall after seeing ATS. I think it is because he was allowed to shine more here with it being his own show and he is very good at comedy.

                  I very rarely change my mind on episodes but I no longer think OMWF is one of the best episodes ever like I did when it first aired. I like the music and that it gives some comic relief. I still enjoy watching it but I think there are a lot of better episodes out there.


                  I can't think of anything else at the moment.
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                  • #10
                    I got a couple more I've thought of since seeing other people's list;

                    1) Don't really think Glory's that great of a big bad anymore. I used to think she was really cool now I kinda find her a tad lame and annoying.

                    2) Season Five has suffered lately, I used to think it was brilliant and it is still is awesome but upon multiple re-watches I'm starting to notice more new "flaws" or things I don't like about it, than things that I do.

                    3) Never used to like Dawn when I first watched s5 or s6 whereas I like her a lot now! Especially in season eight!

                    4) ?Angel' season one has been airing really late on normal television over here in Australia and I've been watching it again a lot more and gotta say.. Not as terrible as I thought it was.

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                    • #11
                      I used to really dislike Buffy & Riley when the show was airing and I couldn't wait for him to leave already. Now I don't mind watching them anymore (maybe because I know he'll end up flying into the woods ). No, actually I think their relationship was rather complex and it's worth analysing and thinking about and he definitely was important phase in Buffy's life.

                      I didn't use to care much about Angel, after watching AtS I quite like him.

                      I used to love Buffy's character, now I'm starting to dislike her more and more. (I really hope one day I'll rediscover her, but right now I really don't find her that great).
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                      • #12
                        I don't know how my opinion had changed but i have a few

                        1-I always hated the fact that Angel left Buffy & i remember i was really mad when he did ,but now it changed i still don't agree with it but i UNDERSTAND.

                        2-Wes i wasn't a fan of his persona in btvs but i loved him in ats.

                        3-Cordy didn't like her in btvs & hated her in ats & that didn't change but now i see she's more fun when she was in btvs.

                        4-Giles back then i always saw him as this tight british guy who care's about the mission now i see how much he loved buffy & how he cared about her as much if she was his own daughter.
                        You Are The Only One
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                        It Will Always Be Yours.

                        To The Icon Maker,Thanks

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                        • #13
                          I?ve only finished the entire series of Buffy in 2007 and the entire series of Angel in the beginning of 2008, but I?ve come to see that the more I watch the series, the more I love it. I see characters in a new light, attitudes and actions that I view differently, even episodes and seasons that have more to offer.

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                          • #14
                            I've grown to enjoy Riley's character more and more. Sometimes, he gets some very funny lines. And he's an interesting contrast to all the other scoobies - plus, the ways in which he responds to Buffy and she responds to him are very layered.

                            I do hope he's not evil in season 8 and is a double agent. Also, if he's gone all "evol becos sam dyed omg sadness !!!" that'll be rather a retread of Willow, and not very interesting. If he genuinely thinks Buffy's dangerous, that's interesting, but I think he'd be a bit smarter than to team up with Twilight.


                            -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --

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                            • #15
                              My opinions have changed but I think its a lot more to do with getting older as opposed to re-watching. I began to understand things more and found so many of the issues so much sadder because I could relate to them once I grew up a bit.

                              - I was devastated when Angel left - his and Buffy's relationship is still something I believe in wholeheartedly (LOL at myself). For this reason I HATED Riley when Season 4 started (I was only young lol) but as it continued and I watched it again when I was older, I grew to love him and cried when he left. I also HATED Spike when he was with Buffy (loved him in Season 2) but I watched all that again properly much more recently and I'm still kinda against it but I appreciate it and understand how much Spike loved her now.

                              - I just got the whole lot on DVD for my birthday and watching it back all over again, I still prefer the first 3 seasons. I think it is real, old-school Buffy and I miss that sometimes in the later series, but I totally get that it had to adapt and get darker etc, because they were getting older but I love the first 3 seasons.

                              - One of the things I have grown to love since watching it from an 'older' perspective is Giles' and Buffy's relationship. I think it is the most touching relationship in the show. Giles has become one of my favourite characters as I've got older. And he's definitely sexy when he sings

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                              • #16
                                There are two things I have noticed about myself that have drastically changed in my experience with the show. One change happened quite awhile ago, but the other is much more recent.

                                First of all, Dawn. I hated her. Hated with a firey burning passion. But then, in rewatching the show about three years ago, her relationship with Spike really made me look at her in a whole new light, and now she's one of my favorite characters.

                                Second, Xander/Buffy. It used to make me gag but now I feel that they are both at a place in their lives where it might actually have potential. Now, I haven't read the latest issues of the comic so I don't know what's going on as of yet, but I really get the feeling that it could be on the horizon at some point, and I'd honestly be okay with that.

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                                • #17
                                  What surprises me the most is how good it stands to multiple viewings. I discover new things, see the characters in a new light. It is kinda rare that a show does that: keep getting better and better.

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                                  • #18
                                    I find my opinions have changed a lot over the years (mostly as I've got older, I think, lol) the biggest ones are:

                                    1. Darla - I absolutely detested her on first viewing - thought her pregnancy during S3 was the moment the show jumped shark and started to suck. And I hated her relationship with Angel. Now, looking back? I really kind of liked Darla and their relationship.

                                    2. Buffy/Riley, Riley and the whole Suck that was their relationship in S5. I adored Riley. And I adored how much he loved Buffy, so much so that when I first watched S5 it left me with a nasty taste in my mouth and a teeny, tiny bit of hate for Buffy and Joss, all rolled into one.

                                    I hated what they did to the character and their relationship as a whole and blamed Buffy for a lot of that. Rewatching it? I get kinda mad at Riley for what he did because I do think Buffy DID love him (and there are better way to handle things than getting bitten off vampires and issuing your girlfriend an ultimatum!). I even understand, now, that Joss had to get Buffy to the point where she was going to lose everything for the end of the season to happen... I still don't agree with it, but I understand, lol.

                                    3. Pylea Arc in Angel. Hated it on first, second and third viewing. And, not to go all lol!cat? DID NOT WANT. That has gradually become one of my favourite storylines of Angel.

                                    4. Connor. It was surprising how much I actually hated Connor on his return in S3. I didn't watch much of S4 but through a couple of friends of mine, I actually started to love him.

                                    5. Season 6 of BTVS. Hated, hated this on first viewing. Thought that Andrew, Jonathon and Warren were one of the most ridiculous ideas they'd ever come up with for bad guys. I disliked Buffy throughout most of this season, ditto Willow and Xander. I still don't like Season 6 but it had a few decent standalone eps, if I ignored most of the underlying arc themes. (Willow's addiction, Geek-Trio, etc.)
                                    Last edited by ficbitch82; 10-03-09, 12:34 PM.
                                    Christie | layout-whore | beyond-help

                                    CORDELIA: It's gonna be a long while until you work your way out but I know you well enough to know you *will* and I'll be with you until you do. -- Judgement

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                                    • #19
                                      I notice about myself that when I get into a fandom, I don't hate any characters anymore (with a couple of exceptions though).
                                      Upon first viewing, I strongly took sides and disliked characters. Now I've developed a fondness for soem of them. The biggest change is about Drusilla - I've come to really like her now as a character.

                                      Since I've watched lots of episodes once only until now, I'm quite interestd to see how my opinion on some things I did not like much (like the Jasmine arc or the Connor's birth arc) develops. I imagine I'll like the story of Connor's birth etc a lot more now... and about Jasmine we'll see.
                                      Sin is what I feast upon
                                      I'm forging my crematorium
                                      Your tomb is waiting here for you
                                      Welcome to my ritual

                                      -Judas Priest, Death

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by buffyholic View Post
                                        What surprises me the most is how good it stands to multiple viewings. I discover new things, see the characters in a new light. It is kinda rare that a show does that: keep getting better and better.
                                        Yeal,you are right,we can discover new things ,see the characters in a new light.

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