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Who is the best supernatural fighter in the 'verse?

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  • Who is the best supernatural fighter in the 'verse?

    This is another question that can't be answered because of the different situations. Almost every character has different powers or is on another level. But I ask it anyway.

    Maybe it's possible to see through their powers and try to figure out who has the best insight, uses his/her powers the best etc.

    I just count the supernatural fighters because it's unfair to compare a great human fighter like Robin or Gunn with a slayer or vampire.



    for me;
    I think that Connor is the best fighter. He doesn't have the strength a slayers or an older vampire (Angel, Spike, Darla) has. But for me Connor wins because of his moves and insight. His moves are amazing to see. I think that from all the characters, his moves are the best.

    He seems to have a pretty bad insight in people (pre-season 5), but he knows how to fight (he had no idea who he would see in 'A New World', still he beats Angel, Groo and Gunn).

    Also, it's interesting to see is how much a difference it makes when he got his memories back. The difference was much bigger with Connor in 'Origin' than with Angel in 'Spin the Bottle'. Connor can't depend on his powers like a vampire or slayer does, because he is weaker. And I think that means that he is a better fighter because he has less powers to depend on, but he isn't less in a fight.
    57
    Buffy
    40.35%
    23
    Angel
    10.53%
    6
    Faith
    0.00%
    0
    Spike
    10.53%
    6
    Illyria
    31.58%
    18
    Connor
    5.26%
    3
    Groo
    0.00%
    0
    One of the Big Bads
    0.00%
    0
    Another vampire
    0.00%
    0
    Somebody else
    1.75%
    1
    Nina
    and her haircut.
    Last edited by Nina; 12-01-09, 05:30 PM.


  • #2
    For me Buffy would have to be the best overall supernatural fighter in the verse.

    While it is true that as a slayer Buffy has a substantial amount of supernatural strength on her own. Throughout her series we seen Buffy pitted against numerous opponents whos physical prowess were much stronger than her own. Just look at Glory and Caleb for examples, hell even Adam to see what I mean and yet despite this she has found some way

    The reason for me why Buffy should be considered such a good overall fighter is due to her ability to adapt to her surroundings and use them to her advantages. I also love the way that we have seen so many examples of Buffy's abilities to learn from her mistakes in previous encounters with an opponent and learn from them while also learning how to use her opponents weaknesses to her advantage. For an example of what I mean just compare Buffy's first encounter with Glory in 'No Place Like Home' to their final fight in 'The Gift'. Though even during the encounters the two have between this we can see Buffy improving with everyone.

    So yes for me Buffy should be considered the top supernatural fighters in the verse, and if not the top she's certainly up there.
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    • #3
      I think I would choose Buffy based on her ingenuity. Every year she gets stronger, many times she has allies in battle, but for me it is how she uses her instincts and what is around her that makes her a superior fighter. Buffy's creativity and ingenuity makes her the best in the verse.

      Edit: Hi Vampmaster, sorry I was posting same time you were or I could have quoted you haha...anyway seems we see Buffy as the best for the same reasons.
      Boltmaiden
      Hellmouth Tourist
      Last edited by Boltmaiden; 12-01-09, 05:43 PM.

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      • #4
        I think it's important to separate "weight class" on this -- Illyria, Jasmine, and Glory, for instance, are all outside the scope of the question. They aren't *meant* to be an even match for anyone of the other characters.

        For me, I'm going with Buffy and Faith -- and they are a coin toss. Buffy has the patience and ingenuity, Faith has the ferocity. As Slayers, they are also the strongest of the group of similarly skilled fighters. I think Connor would probably be third -- he's not as strong as a Slayer, but he's stronger than vampires in general and he's probably the most agile out of all of them. Spike and Angel are another coin toss for 4th.
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        • #5
          Hmm I seem to be the only person not as sure about Connor. I'd put Buffy, Faith, Angel and Spike all before Connor I must say. Angel seemed to have the upperhand throughout most of their fights and Faith wiped the floor with him, I'd assume Buffy and Spike could do the same.

          To be honest I'd probably Buffy and Angel as first and second. I'm not sure about Faith and Spike. It helps that we've seen Btvs and Ats what Buffy and Angel are capable of, it's hard to imagine Angel even going down very easily to Buffy after some of his fights in Ats, but I still believe she's the better of the pair. In all honesty I'd probably rank it;

          Buffy
          Angel
          Spike/Faith- Really can't decide
          Connor

          But really on any good day I think Spike could beat Angel and Faith Buffy, but generally Buffy and Angel seem to be the better of the foursome. I never really ranked Connor all that highly?

          ~ Banner by Nina ~

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          • #6
            I score the fight in "Release" as a win for Faith over Angel, and that, to me, puts her ahead of him. And no, I don't distinguish Angel vs. Angelus as fighters. They both have the same strength, same skills, same fight experience.

            Buffy and Faith are pretty much even on all their fights, so I won't try to pick one, but they are ahead of the field. Buffy, Faith, Spike, and Angel could all take each other in the right fight, but in general, the Slayers > the vampires.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
              I score the fight in "Release" as a win for Faith over Angel, and that, to me, puts her ahead of him. And no, I don't distinguish Angel vs. Angelus as fighters. They both have the same strength, same skills, same fight experience.
              I actually think it's important to distinguish between Angel and Angelus in this area, as both have very different mindsets going into a fight. Angelus wasn't exactly giving it his all, in fact, he could have killed her with the shotgun very early on when he got her in that position, if it had been Angel in a fight to the death; he would have. Angelus was all about the mind games, a lot of standing around and talking, fleeting then coming back, he was toying with her. Angel would have been far more gun ho about getting to the fight, and IMO, would as a result, be a very different opponent to fight against.

              I've never been that sure of Faith, she's a wild card to me, especially in her earlier days. When she's more focused and calm I can see it, but when she's screaming in irritancy and anger and tossing chairs at people (Revelations) she kinda just looses it.

              ~ Banner by Nina ~

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              • #8
                I think that Connor is less strong than slayers and also weaker than Angel and Spike. Which is why Faith and Angel can smash him against a wall. Connor never showed remarkable power -for a non-human powered character- and seemed to be in almost every thing weaker than Angel. We already know that slayers are stronger than Angel. Only speed, I think that Connor is the quickest of all warriors, or at least an equal to the vampires.

                But the boy can fight and shows more than once that he is (almost) as good as the fighters who have more power.

                Connor floored Groo, Angel and Gunn at the same time in 'A New World'.
                He won of Angel in 'Tomorrow'.
                He beats 4 vampires at the same time in 'Soulless'. Which isn't the only time as far as I know. We see him quite a lot fighting a bunch of vamps on his own.
                He kills Sahjhan in 'Origin'.

                Spoiler:
                And he beats Gunn in ATF, who isn't the most easy vampire to beat. And it went smoothly.



                Connor beats often a (much) stronger/more powerful fighter in a regular fight. Which is quite unique because Buffy and Angel face the most of the time a weaker fighter. And when the bad guy is stronger, they often don't beat them in a regular fight. (instead they use TNT, fire, magic or a magical weapon etc.)
                Nina
                and her haircut.
                Last edited by Nina; 13-01-09, 12:25 AM.

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                • #9
                  I almost chose Connor, but in the end I went with Illyria. But KoC has a valid point about Illyria being on a different level than everyone else. If she were disqualified, I would have a very tough time deciding between Connor and Buffy. Buffy is Buffy, and I have faith that she can on pretty much anyone she goes against. She's like Batman, in that if you give them enough time, they can defeat anyone.

                  Connor, though, is The Destroyer. A lot of people tend to forget the fact that in the worst hell dimension in the Buffyverse he had that nickname given to him. His fighting skills were honed against giant demons like the one he killed easily when he reappeared at the end of Season 3. His comfort zone is against much more powerful opponents. His first act upon returning to this dimension was to fight Groo, Gunn, and Angel to a stand-still (which was an Illyria-like accomplishment.) A couple of episodes later he defeated Angel. He was also the only person able to defeat Jasmine and Sahjhan. I would say he's stronger than Spike and Angel, and maybe Faith.

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                  • #10
                    Had to go with Buffy. She has human vulnerabilities, but like everyone else said, she's really good at using things around her and being creative in fights. She always finds a way to beat someone back.

                    Following her would be Angel and Illyria - both are stronger than Buffy, IMO, because they have supernatural abilities she does not. Buffy can die whereas Angel can't (easily anyway), so if he falls 20 stories, no big deal. Not the same with Buffy. Despite this I chose Buffy because she's a better fighter and the poll didn't really bring strength/invincibility into the question.

                    Illyria just walked circles around the gang during the fight scene in Shells. I loved how they made her dodge every move so effortlessly, she just kinda danced daintily around the swords.

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                    • #11
                      I picked Illyria because of most powers, especially before Wesley subjected her to the "vacuum cleaner of depowering".
                      Sin is what I feast upon
                      I'm forging my crematorium
                      Your tomb is waiting here for you
                      Welcome to my ritual

                      -Judas Priest, Death

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                      • #12
                        I also picked Illyria, even without her powers she has the ability to punch a demon's face so hard that her hand comes out the other side and his head practically obliterates and also she has the ability to trap a powerful-ish demon in his own trap, so I'm pretty sure it's her, put any of those others in the same situation and there would probably not fair better.

                        But I suppose it depends on what you mean by fighter, do you mean the ability to punch and kick fluently or power? I mean, you could hardly include the Mayor as a fighter because giant snakes don't really have much in the way of fighting power.

                        I think I may say that River Tam was a better fighter that Illyria (although she's not in the list because it's a different 'verse) because of the fluidity to her fighting and how graceful it is when she fights, but Illyria has the combination of power (sometimes) and fighting ability, so I chose her.
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                        • #13
                          I can never follow these threads. For me there are far too many variables. For example Buffy and Faith's near equality may have changed since both have become more focused in different ways. I can't compare Angel and Faith because either Angel was weak and or not trying to kill Faith or Faith was fighting herself/attempting to get Angel to kill her or holding back because she wasn't willing to kill Angelus and lose Angel.

                          Connor? Is he quicker? How do we judge his superiority? Is he more skilled? Mike Massa (fight coordinator) implied he was told that Angel would have 100 years worth of martial arts knowledge, although that is not canonically confirmed we do know that Spike has technical knowledge of fighting skills, that Buffy most likely wouldn't have as most of her fighting skills were handed to her. This said we cannot overlook her instincts and ingenuity, however none these are guaranteed successes. You see? How can we tell?

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                          • #14
                            If it's down to just pure skill, it has to be Connor. He can hold his own with demons, vamps, and Champions without any supernatural assistance whatsoever.

                            If the question's broader than that and includes all aspects of fighting, not just raw skill, I'd have to choose Buffy. Even when she's had her ass thoroughly kicked, she doesn't give up. And in the end, she almost always finds a way to win.
                            Cordially,
                            Amuk

                            I didn't jump. I took a tiny step, and there conclusions were.
                            Addicted to Buffy

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                            • #15
                              Yes Buffy gets the gold medal because of her strength of character, which means that she keeps on coming back until she has prevailed. She thinks on her feet and quickly, and she does not allow false pride to stop her from running away when retreat is the sensible course in the short term, as in the first fight with Sunday in The Freshman. She is a finer tactical thinker than anybody else and learns fast, as we see in the struggle with Glory in Season 5, and with the super-vamp in Season 7.

                              Faith has about the same potential as Buffy and may now be getting the extra self discipline that has put Buffy slightly ahead in the battle. But knowing what battles to fight, and when to fight them are different questions, and I don't think Faith has the knowledge or the intellectual
                              curiosity.

                              Spike--whom Faith resembles in some ways--is always ready for a scrap but thinking is not his strong point. He would always be out foxed by Angel.

                              So I would give the silver medal to Faith and the bronze to Angel.

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                              • #16
                                There are some big problems with doing this, many have been said but the biggest is that we have to see through the fact that the fight serves the plot that Joss is trying to write which makes it a bit easier for buffy.

                                One quick thing first. The winner will be the person who learns a effective fight style. Because they rarely show useful fighting skills. Buffy kicking someone in the face in front of her is NEVER going to happen unless the other person stands with their guard down waiting for it. I've seen really skilled, strong people lose fights that way. In a real non-choreographed fight she'd fall over then get kicked in the head.

                                I'll list mine

                                Illyria
                                Angel
                                Groo
                                Buffy (Why below Angel? Because her fighting style is painful to watch)
                                Spike
                                Faith
                                Connor


                                Illyria
                                Angel
                                "I never learned from a man who agreed with me.'" Robert Heinlen

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                                • #17
                                  A better way of doing this is to give a scenario

                                  Buffy vs Angel, in a LA street alley at night with the usual amount of stuff lying about.
                                  To the death. They both think the others someone else due to a spell.

                                  Who do you say?

                                  I'd go buffy, 6 times out of 10, just.
                                  "I never learned from a man who agreed with me.'" Robert Heinlen

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                                  • #18
                                    Gotta go with Illyria. If she was stabbed to death she could just revert time before dying and win the fight from the beginning. Kinda hard to beat that.
                                    You've got to get behind the mule in the morning and plow.

                                    www.myspace.com/brettknickerbocker

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                                    • #19
                                      Illyria was pretty much unstoppable at one point in time.

                                      I always loved that when it came to Angel/Angelus/Spike..
                                      Buffy mopped the floor with them.
                                      They were amoung some of her toughest and unrulely competitors but she kicked their asses. And I tend to think they liked it on occassion.
                                      Joss Whedon: What I basically said was 'Play the romance. Be proud of him. Love him when you say you love him.. - Spike and Buffy in Chosen
                                      ****
                                      TV Guide: Spike and Buffy #1 Hottest Scene- March 2008

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                                      • #20
                                        it would obviously be illyria obviously before she lost the bulk of her powers.

                                        so excluding her, i'll make a bold call on spike.

                                        in spikes fights with buffy, they usually ended in a stalemate. spike usually lands more blows than other vamps/demons.

                                        to say buffy "whoops" his ass is everytime is a bit bold.

                                        two encounters to note:
                                        harsh light of day: spike is beating buffy until buffy removes the gem
                                        school hard: spike defeats buffy and is interrupted before his coup de grace

                                        buffy in season 7 also refers to spike as being the best fighter they have.

                                        so while i'd like to pick buffy, i'd at least like to offer a couple points for spike.

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