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  • Huh? What does he/she say?

    Sometimes characters make remarks that confuse you or that you really disagree with.


    Like this one;

    Wesley: I didn't get this job because of my looks.

    Buffy: I really, really believe that.
    Really really? That sounds like Wesley is the ugliest person in the world. I know that it's taste, but Alexis Denisof looks good and even stupid hair doesn't make him look really really bad.

    or this one:
    Willow to Connor: Hi. You must be Angel's handsome, yet androgynous, son.
    Vincent looks boyish but calling him androgynous is a bit extreme. Besides, who says that to somebody she meets for the first time?

    and another one by Willow, this time about Buffy.

    sweet girl, not that bright
    But honestly, I've to say that I can't remember the scene so I'm not sure if it was a joke. If it wasn't, it fits this thread.


  • #2
    Originally posted by Nina
    Really really? That sounds like Wesley is the ugliest person in the world. I know that it's taste, but Alexis Denisof looks good and even stupid hair doesn't make him look really really bad.
    I don't remember the scene, but (speculating) maybe Buffy was a bit annoyed with Wesley's attitude (arrogant, despite not looking too competent); if so, the comeback maybe be understandable in context.

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    • #3
      She was annoyed by Wesley, but I think that the line is still a bit over the top.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Nina View Post

        or this one:


        Vincent looks boyish but calling him androgynous is a bit extreme. Besides, who says that to somebody she meets for the first time?
        The scriptwriter was supposedly a big fan of Willow, but I have to say, IMO she had little idea where or who the character was beyond "She talks funny." Hardly anything in that episode really captured Willow's "voice".



        Originally posted by Nina View Post
        and another one by Willow, this time about Buffy.



        But honestly, I've to say that I can't remember the scene so I'm not sure if it was a joke. If it wasn't, it fits this thread.
        You have to look at that in context with the rest of the dialogue:

        WILLOW: I will. I mean, I do... mean it. The darkest place I've ever been, this is what lies beyond that. This is too important for me to-

        KENNEDY: Buffy believes in you.

        WILLOW: You know, Buffy: sweet girl, not that bright.

        I'm always amazed at how many people completely miss the point of that line; maybe it's a generational thing, but back where (and when) I grew up, this was a rather common colloquial sentence structure. The line can be read: "Well, if she trusts me, she's not too smart." Willow is saying she thinks it's a mistake to put any faith in her. She doesn't trust herself, now that she's seen what she's capable of, and she's afraid she can't be trusted to tap into something this powerful. That's why she tells Kennedy she'll have to kill her if she starts to lose control. Only problem there is, Kennedy believes in her, too.
        "Occasionally, I'm callous and strange..." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Nina View Post
          Wesley: I didn't get this job because of my looks.

          Buffy: I really, really believe that.


          Really really? That sounds like Wesley is the ugliest person in the world. I know that it's taste, but Alexis Denisof looks good and even stupid hair doesn't make him look really really bad.
          I actually just recently watched this episode, and I remember thinking that this line made absolutely zero sense to me either. First of all, I agree, Alexis Denisof is not incredibly horrible to look at. Apparently, Buffy didn't share my opinion. But even so, that means she thought Wesley had something else to offer the Council as a Watcher other than looks, e.g. skills, knowledge, etc. This never jived with Buffy's attitude; I always got the impression that she thought Wesley pretty much incompetent, not to mention a wuss.

          Maybe she was being sarcastic. This would fit with her view of him, but that doesn't make sense with the fact that he had just reeled off a paragraph-long description of a fifteenth century duelist club. Not standard knowledge for a complete dolt.

          Or you could just blame it on the writers. That's always fun. Perhaps it was intended as an insult, but resulted in a lack of sense-making.
          ivory_lines
          Hellmouth Tourist
          Last edited by ivory_lines; 01-01-09, 10:31 PM.
          Love isn't brains, children! It's blood, blood screaming inside you to work its will.

          Comment


          • #6
            Maybe Buffy just didn't find Wesley attractive... Okay, he wasn't the ugliest man on earth, he wasn't even that ugly, but it was just a gratitous way to offend him...
            What? You?ve taught a psycho killer demon how to be human by making him watch Sex and the City?

            1.02 Never been kissed OUT NOW/ 1.03 Damned by the bell COMING SOON

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            • #7
              Rowan, good explanation of Willow's line.

              I just assumed Buffy was being catty for the sake of being catty. Wes is handsome, that's hard to argue with, but she wanted to give him crap, so she said that.
              sigpic
              Banner by LRae12

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              • #8
                Something that puts me off about Something Blue is how out-of-character some remarks are. This is the most frustrating one to me:

                XANDER
                (still thinking)
                Something about Willow and her grief-y
                poor-me mood swings. So, so tired of it.


                ANYA
                You mean I don't have to be nice to
                her anymore?


                BUFFY
                We're all tired of it, but what's it have
                to do with what's going on?
                That always pisses me off. I just don't buy Xander and Buffy talking about Willow like that. It's not like either of those two have never had grief-y mood swings.

                Also, from Lies My Parents Told Me - all of Spike's scenes (though well-acted) are totally out-of-character considering he's just been turned into a vampire. He's still nice, sweet William...I know Spike has always acted oddly more human than most vampires even without a soul, but I didn't buy for a second he'd still be pretty much the same man right after being turned into a vamp.

                This line from Buffy always annoys me too:

                BUFFY
                If you try anything again, he's going
                to kill you, but more importantly,
                I'll let him.
                Ugh! I know the point they were trying to make here, but no way would Buffy stand by and let Wood get murdered by Spike! Considering just a sentence earlier she made a remark about how Spike is 'one of the strongest warriors' she's got, I'm surprised she didn't realise Wood is ALSO one of the strongest and most capable fighters at that point.

                And another one from LMPTM (I do like the episode, but there's some things about it that really annoy me. A LOT.):

                BUFFY
                We've had this conversation before,
                Giles. When I told you I wouldn't
                sacrifice Dawn to stop Glory from
                destroying the world.
                GILES
                Things are different now, aren't
                they? After what you've been
                through. Knowing what you're up
                against. Faced with the same choice
                now... you'd let her die.

                Buffy hesitates, as she realizes her answer.


                BUFFY
                If I have to. To save the world...
                (quietly)
                Yes.
                Buffy's protectiveness over her sister in The Gift was so sweet and an important part of the relationship between them. Again I understand the point the writers were trying to make - Buffy becoming a real general and making the HARDEST decisions, but the integrity of her character lost something with this scene.
                urbanlegend23
                Hellmouth Tourist
                Last edited by urbanlegend23; 01-01-09, 11:53 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by urbanlegend23 View Post
                  Something that puts me off about [B]
                  That always pisses me off. I just don't buy Xander and Buffy talking about Willow like that. It's not like either of those two have never had grief-y mood swings.
                  Agreed. They care about her too much to get so annoyed over something that they know is causing her so much pain. It was a careless bit of writing in the script, if I may say so.
                  Love isn't brains, children! It's blood, blood screaming inside you to work its will.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I agree. The episode is a bit overrated, IMO. Tracey Forbes was a crappy writer and Something Blue was his only decent eppy, but a lot of the dialogue is plain stupid (like the abovementioned), or forced for the purposes of the story. Willow says a lot of stuff in that episode she wouldn't normally say just for the purposes of a spell being cast for comedy.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by urbanlegend23 View Post
                      Buffy's protectiveness over her sister in The Gift was so sweet and an important part of the relationship between them. Again I understand the point the writers were trying to make - Buffy becoming a real general and making the HARDEST decisions, but the integrity of her character lost something with this scene.
                      Well, she was willing to kill Angel in Becoming to save the world, wasn't she?

                      (set made by Francy for me)

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                      • #12
                        That always pisses me off. I just don't buy Xander and Buffy talking about Willow like that. It's not like either of those two have never had grief-y mood swings.
                        I don't know. There's a strange belief in the fandom that our favorite characters can't say bad things about our other favorite characters (unless their role is to do so, like Anya or Spike or Cordelia). The reaction over Buffy's line about Cordelia in the latest comic book left me flabbergasted, and this is another example of that. The characters are supposed to be real people, after all.
                        XavierZane
                        Book Guy
                        Last edited by XavierZane; 02-01-09, 12:02 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Angel brought about the end of the world himself, though, and killed Jenny. Dawn was an innocent. There's a clear difference, IMO. This line pretty much sums it up for me:

                          BUFFY
                          She's me. The Monks made her out of
                          me. I hold her and I feel closer to her
                          than... It's more than just the memories
                          they built, it's physical, it's... Dawn is a
                          part of me.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by urbanlegend23 View Post
                            Buffy's protectiveness over her sister in The Gift was so sweet and an important part of the relationship between them. Again I understand the point the writers were trying to make - Buffy becoming a real general and making the HARDEST decisions, but the integrity of her character lost something with this scene.
                            For me, that actually restored some integrity. Buffy's refusal to allow the option of sacrificing Dawn is one of her weakest, most selfish moments. She's placing Dawn (herself) above the fate of this world and several others. Then she finally gives up, accepts death, and commits suicide, which just makes her doubly suspect. Gah...I just really don't like The Gift.

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                            • #15
                              Call me old fashioned but for a man to say "I didn't get this job because of my looks" is being silly and vain.

                              Buffy could have said, "You didn't get it because of your brains either"--but that would have been too nasty. Her response was about par.

                              Wesley's later growth to maturity and hero status is one of the best things about the Jossverse, but I wish Wes could have achieved a little dignity while he was in BtVS.

                              Willows remark about Buffy counts as affectionate "family" banter. As we know from her sat results in Season 3, Buffy is extremely smart.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Michael View Post
                                Call me old fashioned but for a man to say "I didn't get this job because of my looks" is being silly and vain.
                                I don't think that's old fashioned. I think you're right, actually.

                                But an angle I hadn't thought of just occurred to me: what if Wesley wasn't being 'silly and vain?' What if he was being self-disparaging? I can't remember his exact tone, but what if his remark was meant to be taken literally, as if he really didn't think much of himself? Usually, good-looking people know they're good-looking, but what if he was ignorant to his potential looks? When introduced in BTVS, he was sort of awkward and geeky.

                                Just a thought. Maybe I'm over analyzing. I've done it before.
                                Love isn't brains, children! It's blood, blood screaming inside you to work its will.

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                                • #17
                                  I can't remember the tone either, but Wesley is certainly not sure about himself. Wesley's lack of self-esteem is an important factor in his story. In Ats there are heavy hints that he is abused as kid by his father. Roger thinks that his son is the biggest loser walking on earth and he tells Wesley that. (also hints that Roger locked little Wesley up in the closet -first his remarks in season 1 and when he is losing it, he locks Justine up in the closet-). Typical that his story is identical to Angel's story with his father.
                                  Nina
                                  and her haircut.
                                  Last edited by Nina; 02-01-09, 01:58 AM.

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Nina View Post
                                    Really really? That sounds like Wesley is the ugliest person in the world. I know that it's taste, but Alexis Denisof looks good and even stupid hair doesn't make him look really really bad.
                                    Maybe Buffy meant that she can tell Wesley didn't get the job because of his looks because he's the embodiment of a Watcher. Not that he was unattractive, because Buffy would of totally been attracted to Wes in Season 4 of "Angel" when he's all "broody and dark." Anyway, Wes was very "head boy" back then. So, Buffy probably meant that she could totally see him fitting in at the Watcher's Council due to his uptight-ness. Does that make sense?

                                    Originally posted by Michael View Post
                                    Call me old fashioned but for a man to say "I didn't get this job because of my looks" is being silly and vain.
                                    It's more of a saying. Meaning, "I worked for it, it wasn't just given to me." Anyone could say it and it'd make sense. Like, Clem could say it and it'd still make sense because it's not really about what the person who says it looks like. So, I don't find it vain. Silly, yes, but not really vain.
                                    Thomas
                                    Ŧħ?'mąś
                                    Last edited by Thomas; 02-01-09, 03:59 AM.

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                                    • #19
                                      Buffy/Wood/Spike:

                                      I think she was drawing a line in the sand. If it's a choice, she chooses Spike, and if it's a choice between vengence, personal feelings or the mission, she chooses, the mission.

                                      That was the point. Spike told Wood a harsh truth about slayers, that even before her son, Nikki chose the mission. And Buffy reiterated the truth to Wood at the end, in the end the mission comes first. I think that is what the true message was. Not that Spike was the strongest warrior, or she was a cruel bitch who would let her ex vampire lover kill a human or anything like that. But that in the end, if it was a choice between letting Wood be a loose canon plotting death against her strongest ally out of vengence or kicking Wood to the curb or even letting him suffer the consequences for going after Spike again.. then so be it... the mission comes first.

                                      And I agree with her.

                                      She sympathized with him, knew the pain of losing a mother, she also felt that Spike changed and he was fighting for the right cause. They needed him more then anything, and that came before vendettas. If Wood was going to go after Spike again and not put the mission first, then she wasn't going to stand in the way and protect Wood. He was risking everything by trying to kill the soulless vampire who didn't exsist anyone, the vampire who was currently souled, fighting and helping them win the war. She saw that vision the million turok hons that were about to accend on Sunnydale, that mattered more. Those girls mattered more. The mission mattered more and she let him know that.

                                      She told him she got what he tried to do. I do too. Hell it's understandable. But he needs to get the bigger picture and if he doesn't then he suffers the consequences for possibly taking out the strongest warrior they have at a time they need him the most... again.
                                      Dazzling
                                      Hellmouth Tourist
                                      Last edited by Dazzling; 02-01-09, 07:37 AM.
                                      Joss Whedon: What I basically said was 'Play the romance. Be proud of him. Love him when you say you love him.. - Spike and Buffy in Chosen
                                      ****
                                      TV Guide: Spike and Buffy #1 Hottest Scene- March 2008

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                                      • #20
                                        "I didn't get this job because of my looks." "I really, really believe that."
                                        Don't forget, this is Wesley at his most dorkish and pompous. I don't think Buffy would find him particularly attractive, and she's in no mood right then to think "Hmm, give him contacts instead of glasses, a week's stubble and a whole lot more self-confidence and experience, and he'd be really hot." She's also angry and resentful at him for coming in and taking Giles' job; hence the sarcasm.

                                        "Hi. You must be Angel's handsome, yet androgynous, son."
                                        Maybe Willow's thought processes are "He's hot. But I'm gay. So he must be androgynous, otherwise I wouldn't see anything in him..."

                                        "Something about Willow and her grief-y poor-me mood swings. So, so tired of it."
                                        I really liked this exchange. Yes, Buffy and Xander are nice people and Willow's their best friend, but even best friends can get tired when someone is moping around and acting self-pitying. (Ask anyone who's suffered from depression how long it is before their family and friends move from "Poor thing, get some rest" to "For God's sake pull yourself together and get on with it.") I thought this scene was very humanising and in-character.

                                        "If you try anything again, he's going to kill you, but more importantly, I'll let him."
                                        Again, I don't understand people who complain that this means "Buffy would stand by and let Wood get murdered by Spike." as if it's a bad thing. It's Wood who's just attempted murder here, not Spike; and all Buffy is saying is that if he tries it again, she's not going to cry if Spike uses force to defend himself against being murdered!

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