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Is this a stake that I see before me?

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  • Is this a stake that I see before me?

    After a brief discussion of the shakespearean references (or parallels) in season 8, I am curious... what other parallels do you see in Buffy or Angel with Shakesparean characters and scenarios? It can be as obvious or as tenuous as you like.

    A few of my thoughts:

    - Season 4 Giles & King Lear: an old (or he feels old) man who's lost his formal claim to power and sometimes rages against his de-throned condition (A New Man). Though, crossed with Gloucester, given his eyesight issues (mystical and otherwise).

    - Spike // Iago. In the Yoko Factor, he Iagos the Scoobies into distrust. Iago and Spike, both characters who use their crafty, nasty wits to try to screw over more powerful people. Uses rumours to turn friends against one another.

    - Falstaff // Lorne - party people who don't have a place within the structure exactly, but can be valuable all the same. Also, likes booze.

    - The Fool in Lear = Anya, Spike, those who tell the truth but people don't take them seriously (and that's how they get away with it sometimes)

    - Buffy - Henry V... after all, she's leading the "band of buggered" Though Prince Harry's transition into King Henry is perhaps the wrong


    -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --

  • #2
    You missed the most obvious of all: Buffy/Angel.

    From forth the fated loins of these two foes
    A pair of star-crossed lovers take their life


    Starring Jenny Calendar's uncle as the apothecary who sells Juliet the poison.

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    • #3
      if you want to get in to iiago the that pretty much describes the first.

      First/angel
      First/Pr. Wood
      First/Spike
      First/Chloe
      ===Quote of the day===
      "To read makes our speaking English good"

      Xander

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      • #4
        There's the example the show itself points out in 'Earshot' - how all of us have a bit of a jealous side, and despite having a loving partner, all too easily listen to our Iagos and go out and kill our Desdemonas ... well, not so much the last part, but good parallel with Buffy being jealous over Angel's kiss with Faith. And also the point that Buffy makes, that Iago is in some way a reflection of Othello's dark side - we don't need someone else to be our Iago, we are quite capable of convincing ourselves to be cruel or brutal without outside help. Nice allusions throughout that episode.

        And 'Pangs' always reminds me of Shakespeare's finest stage direction ever written, in 'A Winter's Tale' - "Exit, persued by a bear."
        The_Narrator
        Hellmouth Tourist
        Last edited by The_Narrator; 30-11-08, 09:23 PM. Reason: How would Freddie have put it - I type and spell like I have plump Polish sausages tied to my fingers.

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        • #5
          Also thought of something else.

          Joss must have had an obsession with Ophelia.
          There is allot of her in allot of the crazies he threw in.
          ===Quote of the day===
          "To read makes our speaking English good"

          Xander

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          • #6
            These are all good ones. Another minor one: in the commentary for 'Once More, With Feeling', Joss says that Lethe's Bramble was a reference to Lethe's wharf (the place of forgetting) in 'Hamlet.
            Cordially,
            Amuk

            I didn't jump. I took a tiny step, and there conclusions were.
            Addicted to Buffy

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            • #7
              Oh. I only saw the reference to Greek mythology in that (Lethe being the name of the river of forgetting that flows through the underworld).
              Sin is what I feast upon
              I'm forging my crematorium
              Your tomb is waiting here for you
              Welcome to my ritual

              -Judas Priest, Death

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Amuk View Post
                These are all good ones. Another minor one: in the commentary for 'Once More, With Feeling', Joss says that Lethe's Bramble was a reference to Lethe's wharf (the place of forgetting) in 'Hamlet.
                Interesting. Must watch some more commentaries.

                Re Hamlet - Dru carries various Ophelia echoes. Whether they're deliberate quotes, I'm not sure. It's more as if she's absorbed essence of Ophelia.

                For instance, Ophelia's complaint that flowers withered when her father died...Dru complains about things withering and dying I believe? Hmm... right, it's in School Hard:

                "Do you like daisies? Hmm? I plant them, but they always die. Everything I put in the ground withers and dies."

                Compare with Ophelia's: "I would give you some violets, but they withered all when my father died."


                -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --

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                • #9
                  The Prophecy surrounding Connors birth is reminiscent of the Macbeth Prophecy. Being Connor was born but technically the prophecy was correct.
                  ===Quote of the day===
                  "To read makes our speaking English good"

                  Xander

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                  • #10
                    That reminded me of the thing with Macduff as well, getting cut from his mother's womb and all.
                    Sin is what I feast upon
                    I'm forging my crematorium
                    Your tomb is waiting here for you
                    Welcome to my ritual

                    -Judas Priest, Death

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                    • #11
                      Duly noted by Lilah: 'Dusted during childbirth is more like it. According to our sources she staked herself, leaving the baby alive and kicking but never actually born. "MacDuff was from his mother's womb untimely ripped."'

                      And interesting re. Dru as Ophelia, especially when Spike is so very dissimilar to Hamlet - he charges straight into situations without thinking about them e.g. every time he rushes into a fight! This provides a contrast with Hamlet not wanting to kill Claudius when he is in prayer - perhaps Angelus not wanting to kill Buffy until he has inflicted maximum hurt? And Angel could be quite like Hamlet, what with the multiple sides of Hamlet's personality (Liam/Angel/Angelus/S2 'Bad' Angel etc.) and the shared afflication of I-Am-A-Miserable-Brooding-Wank Syndrome.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by The_Narrator View Post
                        And interesting re. Dru as Ophelia, especially when Spike is so very dissimilar to Hamlet
                        Except when he's crazy in the basement - all very Hamletty monologues he has down there.

                        And Angel could be quite like Hamlet, what with the multiple sides of Hamlet's personality (Liam/Angel/Angelus/S2 'Bad' Angel etc.) and the shared afflication of I-Am-A-Miserable-Brooding-Wank Syndrome.
                        I wish Lorne had made a gag about that. After all the pastry-related names... he could call him a Danish pastry.


                        -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --

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                        • #13
                          Without going into individual episodes , there is a flavor of A Midsummer Nights Dream in much of golden age Buffy, meaning the first three seasons. In fact it would have made a fine comic episode if the characters fell in love with the first person they saw after being put to sleep. In Season 7 Buffy would have benefited from an infusion of Henry V

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bloody Billy View Post
                            The Prophecy surrounding Connors birth is reminiscent of the Macbeth Prophecy. Being Connor was born but technically the prophecy was correct.
                            I would also add the Irony of the prophecy that Connor was to kill Sa'jan. So it would seem that no man of woman born could kill sa'jan.
                            ===Quote of the day===
                            "To read makes our speaking English good"

                            Xander

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Wolfie Gilmore View Post
                              Except when he's crazy in the basement - all very Hamletty monologues he has down there.
                              Or Buffy = Hamlet and Spike = Ophelia.

                              James Marsters: Well, with Buffy, it was really like "Hamlet." Which is Joss' favorite play. "Hamlet" is about being a young man who comes in to contact with all the ****ed up parts of the world. He came into his own as a man, with the world totally screwed up. How do you continue walking? How do you move forward when you know that the whole world is messed up? Do you give up? Do you kill yourself? Do you fight against that? How do you fight against that? Shakespeare is, really in the mature way, examining how do you do that. [...] That's what he was talking about with Buffy. She's coming into being a woman, and with her, it's vampires that she's fighting. That's just the metaphor. It's just a sideshow.

                              (set made by Francy for me)

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