So, Lyn and I decided to manually transfer this thread and the discussion from BW over to here, since the latest developments from the finale allowed new insights in the topic and it would be a shame to loose the preceding debate, so here we go:
So, I read of lot of fics and metas lately in which authors suggest that Sam has to feel guilty for not being able to fend off the possession in BUABS and furthermore for not being able to stop the demon from hurting Dean like John did in ?Devil's Trap'. It's also suggested a lot that Sam possibly remembers more about the time of his possession than he admits towards Dean. That motivated me to look into the different possessions we saw so far on the show and how they played out.
In ?Phantom Traveller' we learn that demons usually need to sense a weakness in a person in order to possess them, emotional distress or fear seem to open people up for demonic possessions. At least for the ?big' possessions in SN I think this can be confirmed, John was definitely in distress when he encountered the demon, worrying about his sons, trying to trick the demons with a false gun, being captivated. I guess it's fair to say that Sam's condition around the time the possession took place was definitely emotionally worn out too.
Some of the other possessions seem more random though, like the effortless possessions of the fireman and the bystander in ?Devil's Trap' or the Truck Driver from DT/IMTOD or the janitor in IMTOD. Since we don't know anything about this person's though, we can probably just assume that for some reason or other they fall under the pattern. The fireman distressed because of his job, the truck driver and janitor worrying about something etc., the same might go for Meg. Given the fact that everybody can be distressed or emotionally vulnerable at some point, it might be impossible to fend off a possession altogether, it's just a question of right timing for the demon.
It's interestingly consistent that all short-term possessions go down without the possessed person being able to remember anything. The Co-Pilot from PT admits everything from the beginning of the possession on is blacked out. The truck driver from IMTOD didn't seem to remember anything as well, just like the random girl that delivered the demon deal with Dean in ?Crossroad Blues'. They are all confused and disorientated as soon as the demon leaves the body. Sam displays the same confusion after he comes out of his possession, only that he was possessed over a week, rather than only a couple of hours like the aforementioned.
We only got to see two long-term possessions up to that point: Meg and John. Meg was possessed over a year and obviously was not only conscious for most if not all of that time, she remembered everything the demon did while possessing her body, she also had knowledge about the demon's intentions after the possession ended, as she could point out to Sam and Dean that the demon wants them to come after John and that it is a trap.
John was possessed a couple of days and we know, that he was conscious at least during the time the demon toyed with Sam and Dean and he did seem to remember the events in the cabin just fine, no sign of disorientation or confusion either, after the demon left his body. John being conscious presumably also allowed him to force the demon under his control for a short time to prevent him from killing Dean.
We obviously can't determine if the consciousness or not-consciousness of the victims is a deliberate decision from the demon or if it happens without its intervention and depends on factors out of its reach. I tend to argue for the deliberate decision though. All short-term possessions were using the people as tools to achieve a certain practical goal, crashing the plane, hitting the Impala, making a deal. The possessed person's were random and mere puppets.
At least for the possession of John and Sam we know that is not true, they weren't random. Sam was chosen deliberately to hurt Dean and John was chosen to trap Sam and Dean in order to get to the gun and one could argue that it gives a greater ?kick' (yeah, demons are sick puppies ) to let the possessed person witness the destruction it wrecks on those he/she loves. So it would make perfect sense to let John see Dean dying or let Sam see Dean being tortured by his own hands, being trapped inside their bodies and not being able to do a thing about it. On the other hand the demon could decide to not let Sam witness it, in order to prevent him from taking over control, just like John did with the YED.
So, what are your opinions? Do you think Sam remembers more about his possession than he lets on at the moment? Should he have been able to stop the demon from hurting Dean?
So, I read of lot of fics and metas lately in which authors suggest that Sam has to feel guilty for not being able to fend off the possession in BUABS and furthermore for not being able to stop the demon from hurting Dean like John did in ?Devil's Trap'. It's also suggested a lot that Sam possibly remembers more about the time of his possession than he admits towards Dean. That motivated me to look into the different possessions we saw so far on the show and how they played out.
In ?Phantom Traveller' we learn that demons usually need to sense a weakness in a person in order to possess them, emotional distress or fear seem to open people up for demonic possessions. At least for the ?big' possessions in SN I think this can be confirmed, John was definitely in distress when he encountered the demon, worrying about his sons, trying to trick the demons with a false gun, being captivated. I guess it's fair to say that Sam's condition around the time the possession took place was definitely emotionally worn out too.
Some of the other possessions seem more random though, like the effortless possessions of the fireman and the bystander in ?Devil's Trap' or the Truck Driver from DT/IMTOD or the janitor in IMTOD. Since we don't know anything about this person's though, we can probably just assume that for some reason or other they fall under the pattern. The fireman distressed because of his job, the truck driver and janitor worrying about something etc., the same might go for Meg. Given the fact that everybody can be distressed or emotionally vulnerable at some point, it might be impossible to fend off a possession altogether, it's just a question of right timing for the demon.
It's interestingly consistent that all short-term possessions go down without the possessed person being able to remember anything. The Co-Pilot from PT admits everything from the beginning of the possession on is blacked out. The truck driver from IMTOD didn't seem to remember anything as well, just like the random girl that delivered the demon deal with Dean in ?Crossroad Blues'. They are all confused and disorientated as soon as the demon leaves the body. Sam displays the same confusion after he comes out of his possession, only that he was possessed over a week, rather than only a couple of hours like the aforementioned.
We only got to see two long-term possessions up to that point: Meg and John. Meg was possessed over a year and obviously was not only conscious for most if not all of that time, she remembered everything the demon did while possessing her body, she also had knowledge about the demon's intentions after the possession ended, as she could point out to Sam and Dean that the demon wants them to come after John and that it is a trap.
John was possessed a couple of days and we know, that he was conscious at least during the time the demon toyed with Sam and Dean and he did seem to remember the events in the cabin just fine, no sign of disorientation or confusion either, after the demon left his body. John being conscious presumably also allowed him to force the demon under his control for a short time to prevent him from killing Dean.
We obviously can't determine if the consciousness or not-consciousness of the victims is a deliberate decision from the demon or if it happens without its intervention and depends on factors out of its reach. I tend to argue for the deliberate decision though. All short-term possessions were using the people as tools to achieve a certain practical goal, crashing the plane, hitting the Impala, making a deal. The possessed person's were random and mere puppets.
At least for the possession of John and Sam we know that is not true, they weren't random. Sam was chosen deliberately to hurt Dean and John was chosen to trap Sam and Dean in order to get to the gun and one could argue that it gives a greater ?kick' (yeah, demons are sick puppies ) to let the possessed person witness the destruction it wrecks on those he/she loves. So it would make perfect sense to let John see Dean dying or let Sam see Dean being tortured by his own hands, being trapped inside their bodies and not being able to do a thing about it. On the other hand the demon could decide to not let Sam witness it, in order to prevent him from taking over control, just like John did with the YED.
So, what are your opinions? Do you think Sam remembers more about his possession than he lets on at the moment? Should he have been able to stop the demon from hurting Dean?
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