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***Nina*** · 21-07-08, 05:04 PM

The links don't work.

But I would love to see it, it must be a lot of work.

**?DarkWillow?** · 21-07-08, 08:40 PM

Darn, the links don't work! I would really love to see it though, I'm sure it's very good.

**Vampire in Rug** · 21-07-08, 08:57 PM

Awesome Nile. Unfortunetly the links don't work, but I can't wait to see the timeline. I imagine it would serve as a handy reference to fanfic writers.

**NileQT87** · 22-07-08, 03:39 AM

*edit* fixed with the new links up top.

**Flak** · 22-07-08, 03:48 AM

Heh, Xander's birthday is in April. That makes him an Ares. I would have pegged him for a Cancer.

This is pretty neat, must have taken a lot of work to track this stuff down like everyone's birthdays and such.

**NileQT87** · 22-07-08, 04:05 AM

well, the birthdays, unless specified, were just given the actors' birthdays as generic placeholders until we learn more. technically, the xander one, in particular, is likely way wrong because of being 17 in surprise... but i didn't feel like figuring out where to put it generically. again, some of these are based on actors' birthdates. vampire siring dates are from whatever was their 'origin story' episode's airdate (namely becoming, pt. 1, darla, fool for love and dear boy). ditto with selfless and anyanka.

so yeah, some information is fairly ignorable. it's just placeholder stuff. and some of the mid-summer dates are just about halfway through the summer as a placeholder--as in: it happened sometime in this span of time.

xander's birthday is actually somewhere between november and january 20th. i might just give him a generic date like the first of the year as a placeholder. as far as buffy's birthday--the 19th habitually puts the scoobies in school on weekends. the 20th is still one of the two days considered the cusp of aquarius and works every time except for buffy's subdued little party in blood ties (dawn in school), which would have to be two days early. but surprise/innocence and helpless are the two that have to be specifically on the day without room for fudging.

the only ones where birthdates mean something are buffy, cordy, connor, angel (the gypsy incident was on his birthday), tara and dawn (her 10th birthday was when they were still new to sunnydale and she didn't have friends, still in sunnydale rather than on summer vacation in L.A./san diego and still 14 at the end of season 5 (which goes to mid-may--leaving a mid-may to mid-june window).

i also read a lot of computer screens (nathan reed's e-mail and schedule for the next two months, for example, dated dead end).

and my latest discovery is that the prophecy girl script tells us that cordy and willow's discovery of the dead kids watching the three little pigs was on a saturday.

faith has some non-canon book stuff, but it doesn't float because she'd have gone through her cruciamentum just a few weeks before buffy (the author clearly based it on faith's line of "big sister"). i severely doubt giles would do it twice in less than a month--and if he did, it makes giles look worse for doing it to buffy. and do you really think faith wouldn't blab about it? what i did was give faith the oldest age possible that wouldn't give her a cruciamentum with giles and make it so she was a minor during her crimes, based on the rather weak prison sentence. i essentially gave her the oldest age that she could still be a minor during the murders. even if she was an adult during her crimes, it still puts her a year younger than eliza.

i, unfortunately, don't have any of the books, but do have access to most of the comics (minus several issues). if anybody has them, maybe they can fix/type in what i'm missing (if they aren't obliterated by canon).

*edit* i frequently fix and update this, so remember to get the new links every once in a while, if you plan to keep it around. i probably should turn this into some kind of web page rather than a document that needs to keep being reuploaded and downloaded.

**NileQT87** · 24-07-08, 09:55 AM

just found something really interesting that hadn't dawned on me before...

there's only ONE possible date for angel's rescue of cordy from russell's mansion... the minnesota vikings were playing on the t.v. it just dawned on me. the first game of the 1999 season was sunday, september 12, 1999.

1999 Minnesota Vikings Rosters, Stats, Schedule, Team Draftees | Pro-Football-Reference.com

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min/1999.htm

Check out the 1999 Minnesota Vikings Roster, Stats, Schedule, Team Draftees, Injury Reports and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com.

just worked that into my dates. which actually means that there are a few days between eddie rising/buffy talking to giles and spotting eddie on patrol/sunday kicking her butt--and it works because she's wearing different outfits and there's no dialog that insinuates it was the same day.

ah, i love it when little pop-culture bits like viking games and dialog/computer screen hints end up dating the episodes.

i'm a geek, so shoot me.

and just a shout-out... i have the updated links in my signature and i plan to keep it there. i hope you replace old versions with the revised ones... this is definitely still a work in progress.

i also added a couple more comics yesterday and fixed up a few other errors.

i don't have anything but a synopsis for the comic "angels we have seen on high", so can anybody tell me any timeline clues or how many days the story takes place in? is it just one evening?

and i decided to use the spike vs. dracula comic's dating of the gypsy camp slaughter (which also dates angelus' birthday).

***Nina*** · 12-08-08, 08:31 AM

I've been looking but there is so much information (amazing) that I couldn't find what I was looking for.

Nile, do you know Connor's age and birthdate? I was always thinking that he was 18 when he returned in season 3 ... which makes him 2 years older than Dawn ... still he only went one year before her to college. I'm curious if that has anything to do with an early and a late student or if I'm wrong about his age.

**NileQT87** · 12-08-08, 08:52 AM

he was born november 19, 2001 (or 1985) going by lullaby... which technically is past the cut-off date for the 1985 babies unless vail had him skip a grade, but he started college at stanford in september 2003, which means he was going to college with the 1985 babies. dawn's age group is the 1986 babies. september 2004 would be when she started at berkeley.

btw, i recently had to nudge about a few days in help (nothing drastic), having to do with finding out from a deleted scene which days of the week buffy went to work at sunnydale high (mondays, wednesdays and fridays).

i still have a bunch more comics to enter, but a lot of them are there already. there will be another update fairly soonish.

***Nina*** · 12-08-08, 09:09 AM

Originally posted by NileQT87 View Post

he was born november 19, 2001 (or 1985) going by lullaby... which technically is past the cut-off date for the 1985 babies unless vail had him skip a grade, but he started college at stanford in september 2003, which means he was going to college with the 1985 babies. dawn's age group is the 1986 babies. september 2004 would be when she started at berkeley.

btw, i recently had to nudge about a few days in help (nothing drastic), having to do with finding out from a deleted scene which days of the week buffy went to work at sunnydale high (mondays, wednesdays and fridays).

i still have a bunch more comics to enter, but a lot of them are there already. there will be another update fairly soonish.

Thank you.

It really looks great ... it was so much that I couldn't find the right dates ... but wow.

**Vampire in Rug** · 13-08-08, 02:27 AM

Wow, you've put a lot of work into this. Any chance of seeing it in the future as a webpage rather than a file download?

**NileQT87** · 13-08-08, 05:47 AM

i'd like to... geocities is a nightmare, though, and i won't be able to buy a website. so, if anybody has any decent web-design skills (i don't), ideas or space, please help! it would be a lot easier if i could just upload my updates automatically instead of having to replace the download link every time (and thus destroy some of my older, very incorrect versions--gak).

as i said, it's definitely a work in progress.

just worked on a few more tweaks tonight largely dealing with season 7. i'll probably go through some more comics. an update is coming!

over at slayalive, i recently posted a write-up of a few of the 'why?'s of where i believe things took place. here it is:

Spoiler:

**stormwreath** · 13-08-08, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by NileQT87 View Post

i don't have anything but a synopsis for the comic "angels we have seen on high", so can anybody tell me any timeline clues or how many days the story takes place in? is it just one evening?

I don't know if you still need this, but:

Buffy is "a newly minted 15 year old Slayer".

The story takes place on a a Friday night, over the course of half an hour or so. They're visiting Santa Monica pier.

Dawn does not know yet that Buffy is the Slayer, and doesn't know that vampires exist.

She does know that Buffy has been acting strange ever since she "burned the school gym down, and ran off with Pike, and went to that hospital".

Dawn says "I hope I don't become a mopey whiner when I get to high school!"

**NileQT87** · 13-08-08, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by stormwreath View Post

I don't know if you still need this, but:

that's exactly what i needed! after slayer, interrupted and on a friday. that's actually where i had guessed it was.

thanks!

**kassyopeia** · 14-08-08, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by NileQT87 View Post

faith has some non-canon book stuff, but it doesn't float because she'd have gone through her cruciamentum just a few weeks before buffy (the author clearly based it on faith's line of "big sister"). i severely doubt giles would do it twice in less than a month--and if he did, it makes giles look worse for doing it to buffy. and do you really think faith wouldn't blab about it? what i did was give faith the oldest age possible that wouldn't give her a cruciamentum with giles and make it so she was a minor during her crimes, based on the rather weak prison sentence. i essentially gave her the oldest age that she could still be a minor during the murders. even if she was an adult during her crimes, it still puts her a year younger than eliza.

She's described in the script as ("Faith, Hope And Trick"):

Code:

a WILD GIRL (young, loose and fast, 18-ish, biker type meets trailer park)

which, though more about her looks than her age, suggests that she's older than Buffy. I don't think "weak prison sentence" is a solid argument, since we don't know to which crimes she confessed, and the prescribed sentence for murder-two is "only" 15-to-life in California.

**NileQT87** · 14-08-08, 11:00 PM

if she was older than buffy... giles gave her her cruciamentum. that's the crux of the argument. giles probably would have been starting her on the adrenaline suppressors and putting her through her cruciamentum somewhere between the wish and amends.

i have trouble thinking giles would do the cruciamentum twice 5 weeks apart, especially with how it affected him with buffy and how he disagreed with it with quentin. that means he could do it to faith and not to buffy.

i'm willing to think she was 17 and turning 18 in her coma, though. december 1980, though eliza's birthdate, seems problematic with the cruciamentum thing. also--smg was born in 1977, but she plays a character that's from 1981. in fact, charisma carpenter was born in 1970, nick brendon was born in 1971 and alyson hannigan was born in 1974. that would make eliza basically playing her actual age--which is actually unusual.

again, i'm stuck with giles and the cruciamentum. that one book insinuates that it was coming on december 14... that close to helpless seems weird to me. it would be a dark question about giles, imo.

i guess the script proves it... though, it could be casting information.

i'll change it to the go ask malice information for now. i do think that question about giles needs to be discussed, though.

**kassyopeia** · 14-08-08, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by NileQT87 View Post

i guess the script proves it... though, it could be casting information.

Yes, that's what I meant above. Information given in brackets like this, following the introduction of a character/prop/location, is generally to be taken as a production note rather than the narrative voice.

if she was older than buffy... giles gave her her cruciamentum. that's the crux of the argument. giles probably would have been starting her on the adrenaline suppressors and putting her through her cruciamentum somewhere between the wish and amends.

Well, if we take "18-ish" literally it just means that she's already past her Cruciamentum by the time she comes to Sunnydale - or am I missing something? We'd have to assume that she doesn't tell Buffy about it because her watcher told her not to, but that doesn't seem too far-fetched, since by the time she starts distancing herself from the council ("Revelations") she also starts distancing herself from Buffy.

**NileQT87** · 15-08-08, 12:58 AM

can slayers be picked past the age of 18, outside of kennedy possibly, who stated she believed she was too old (if she was over 18, that would make sense for her to believe that).

the council seems to have held this 18 rule for a really long time, which would lead me to believe the naturally chosen slayers are almost always, if always, chosen before they turn 18. otherwise that age wouldn't be the date of the cruciamentum devised by the council. if a slayer was called after the age of 18, the council couldn't give them that test.

the youngest potential that we know of to be chosen was 12 (the baseball girl)--and pretty clearly pre-pubescent. and gigi makes a comment about the slayer visions starting around puberty.

which is why 18-ish is likely casting information (most likely to get an 18-ish actress that doesn't fall under child labor laws). eliza, herself, was 17 1/2 when she would have started filming buffy (they film about 5 episodes ahead), so they obviously went for someone just short of 18.

the go ask malice book, which is probably the closest thing we have to faith's history, says her birthday is december 14, 1980... making her cruciamentum a few weeks before buffy's. the book even mentions (apparently--i haven't read it) her former watcher alluding to her cruciamentum coming up soon.

nonetheless, it's something else to add to giles' closeness to buffy vs. his treatment of faith. possibly something that would even further alienate faith from giles and his favoritism of buffy, but it also makes giles look rather bad that his ethical meltdown wouldn't have occurred earlier... unless his opinion that the cruciamentum was cruel (and having difficult feelings about doing it to buffy) was formed in the aftermath of faith's, rather than his earlier knowledge of the council.

**kassyopeia** · 15-08-08, 01:20 AM

Originally posted by NileQT87 View Post

can slayers be picked past the age of 18, outside of kennedy possibly, who stated she believed she was too old (if she was over 18, that would make sense for her to believe that).

"Bring on the Night":

Code:

MOLLY, 14 or 15, is a Brit of East Indian heritage. She's cute, pudgy.

ANNABELLE, 16, is a sleek, athletic upper-class Brit. She's a bit of a snob. 
Very into her training, a tad humorless.

KENNEDY, 19, the oldest of the bunch. She's tough and wry - takes all 
the mysticism associated with the Slayer gig with a serious grain of salt.

Not bracketed, so I'd take this as pseudo-canon-level information.

How much time passes between "Becoming" and "Faith, H. & T."?

nonetheless, it's something else to add to giles' closeness to buffy vs. his treatment of faith. possibly something that would even further alienate faith from giles and his favoritism of buffy, but it also makes giles look rather bad that his ethical meltdown wouldn't have occurred earlier... unless his opinion that the cruciamentum was cruel (and having difficult feelings about doing it to buffy) was formed in the aftermath of faith's, rather than his earlier knowledge of the council.

Well, I must say I'm finding the idea that Giles conducted a second Cruciamentum extremely difficult to reconcile with canon and what we know about the characters. I don't think it's actually contradicted by anything said in "Helpless" (I'll have another look at the deleted scenes, though), but I really don't see Faith as someone who would let Giles get away with putting her through something like that.

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