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Good & Evil

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  • Good & Evil

    Now the notion of Good and Evil are relative in reality but in the Buffyverse they are given form and substance.

    Many of the heroes have checkered pasts or have done ignoble things. On my personal scale of 1-10 for Good and -1 to -10 for Evil, few characters score a 10 or -10 because it requires absolute good or absolute evil.
    I'd say Tara and Joyce Summers score a 9 because they did nothing really wrong. They were helpful, thoughtful people who did what they could to assist the ones they love.

    But while the heroes are tough, the villains and abstract beings are harder still.

    So, my point is, where would you rank characters or beings in terms of Good and Evil?

    My list:

    Tara MeClay: 9
    Angel: 7
    Caleb: -9
    Angelus: -8
    The Powers: 0
    The First: The only thing deserving of a -10 for me.

  • #2
    Nice Idea for a Thread

    I'll just do the Scoobies for now

    Buffy 7
    Tara Maclay 10
    Willow 7.5
    Xander 4
    Spike 0
    Angel 8 (on buffy)
    Dawn 6.5
    Giles 8
    Faith (before evil) 3
    Oz 3
    Reily 6
    Andrew 2
    Cordy (as a member of scoobies) 1

    Or in order
    2 Angel
    3 Giles
    4 Buffy
    5 Willow
    6 Dawn
    7 Reilly
    8 Xander
    9 Oz
    10 Faith
    11 Cordy
    12 Andrew
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me.'" Robert Heinlen


    • #3
      I try to do them in order, but it's hard because somebody like Joyce was never in the situation that somebody like Connor was in ... and I don't judge the soulless versions of Angel and Spike ... because vampires without a soul are a 0 anyway.

      Connor - 9.5
      (He did some really bad things in season 4, but if you see how screwed up he was in the end because he was used by so many people, he lived in hell, he just met Angelus who is his father etc. ... I doubt that any character would've done better. If you also see how long it took for Connor before he started to do things he saw as bad ... it's amazing. Of course, locking Angel up is bad ... but I blame Holtz and Justine for that one. And the moment he isn't confused anymore, he is a very good guy. And I think that it's more fair to judge him on that period, because the most others did grow up in a family and went to school instead of growing up in hell while learning that your parents are monsters and being used by several people to do their dirty work.)
      Lorne - 9.2
      (I can't remember something evil that Lorne did, he a little bit scared sometimes, but in the end he is there for his friends.)
      Fred - 9
      (Yes, she wanted to kill the man who locked her up in hell ... but that was like the only thing that saved her from being a Mary Sue ... she is adorable, sweet and caring.)
      Tara - 9
      (sometimes a little bit hypocrite, but she never showed 'evilness'.)
      Dawn - 9
      (Being a teenager isn't a crime.)
      Doyle - 8.5
      (In his short time on the show, he was a very good man.)
      Xander - 8
      (He could be an ass and hypocrite, but he was never evil or in the grey area.)
      Cordelia - 8
      (Same as Xander, she was a bitch ... but she never switched sides.)
      Oz - 8
      (Close to a Gary Stu, very cool, very perfect. But sometimes he was a little bit stupid like in Phases when he didn't saw a reason to mention that he was a werewolf.)
      Gunn - 7.7
      (Gunn was always one of the best people in the cast, but in season 5 also Gunn walked to the 'dark side' when he got corrupted very easy.)
      Angel & Buffy - 7.5
      (They did a lot of good things and some really stupid/bad things ... but in their situation, you can't expected them to be some perfect superheroes.)
      Giles - 7
      (He has some very ugly sides, but in the end it's a good man.)
      Wesley - 6.8
      (Started out as a great man, but he kind of lost it around season 3/4 and since that moment ... he is very easy with killing/stabbing/torture. But he still a good guy ... )
      Willow - 6.5
      (Nice girl, but she did a lot of bad things (and I don't take Magic=Crack as excuse to wank everything away).
      Spike - 6.5
      (Spike still has to find his place in the world and in the fight. Right now it's a 6.5 but I think that it will become better in time.)
      Anya - 1
      (Very weird character if you think about it. She had a soul when she did all the bad things she did ... and she never felt sorry for that ... only in Selfless. But after that, she changes back in shallow Anya.)
      Last edited by Nina; 20-06-08, 08:53 AM.


      • #4
        The reason I gave people like Cordy such low scores is because they did not fight evil for good. It was to protect her own ass.

        I'll do Angel Investigations

        Angel 9 (less because he did do wrong but is forgiven for in my opinion the best best action on the show signing away his shanshu)
        Fred 8.5
        Wesley 4 Very Grey Character for me for a good guy.
        Connor 9 for similar reasons to Nina
        Doyle 9
        Cordelia 9 not 10 because she was slefish leaving she was needed at angel investigations
        Gunn 5 (in the show)

        For Ben I would give a 5 for the reasons you said but IMO you are good if you do good. You are neutral if you are good and don't do good. He did lots of good especially considering where he came from. An 8 if he didn't sacrifice dawn.
        Last edited by Revan; 20-06-08, 11:47 PM. Reason: EDIT
        "I never learned from a man who agreed with me.'" Robert Heinlen


        • #5
          Here's a tough one for me..Harmony. Where does she go in the list? I just...don't see her as very evil. *shrug* But I guess she is.


          • #6
            Originally posted by Nikkolas View Post
            Here's a tough one for me..Harmony. Where does she go in the list? I just...don't see her as very evil. *shrug* But I guess she is.
            Maybe there should be a "absorbs its flavour like a mushroom" category of evil for Andrew and Harmony?

            -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --


            • #7
              I'm not ranking because for me the numbers would probably change with every episode! I think that good and evil is not exclusively shown in the act, but in the motivation for the act. Like Revan said, Cordy did not specifically do things for good or for evil, but just to save her own skin, which makes any act she performs be it ultimately for good or evil, of less importance because it was for selfish reasons.

              With Angel, it's even more difficult. Taking Angelus out of the picture completely, before Angel found out about the Shanshu (and after he signed it away), his actions were pretty much at a 10, because all he wanted to do was make a difference for the side of 'good' and not be acknowledged for it at all. However after he found out about the Shanshu, it could be argued that his actions were ultimately selfish because he was working towards a goal to be human.


              • #8
                Buffy 7(mostly good, with some beating up of people she's sleeping with that slightly brings her down. Oh, and being indecisive over whether to kill humans in season 8...and stealing diamonds and sleeping with people over whom she has rather a lot of power, then promoting them)
                Tara Maclay 9
                Willow 5 (loses points for the whole flaying incident)
                Xander 7
                Spike -2 (he's only been good/unevil for a few years, so he's still in the minus numbers)
                Angel 7
                Dawn 8 (I don't think nicking toothbrushes really counts much towards evildom)
                Giles 6 (he has quite a lot of blood on his hands, and does some sneaky underhand stuff)
                Faith -1 or 0 - still a lot to make up for to bring her well up into the positives
                Oz 9 (he can be annoying, but I don't think we can blame him for the werewolf stuff and I think he's not really done anything bad I cant think of)
                Riley - 7, seems a pretty nice guy all told, though he did do that vamp whore thing (unless he's Twilight, in which case, minus ten!)
                Andrew - 0... I just can't take him seriously either way as a moral being.
                Cordy - 6 (she's mean, but she's not evil

                -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --