Glory, Illyria Or Jasmine?

[Nikkolas]

These three lovely ladies are (generally) agreed to be the most powerful Big Bads and perhaps the strongest beings period in the Buffyverse.

Well, there's the First but it can't really fight on its own so it's not counted much.

But which one claims #1? The absolute strongest?

[Revan]

Going to have to say this quickly then we can get back to the debate but s6 willow onwards could beat all of them at once, especially s8 willow

1) Ilyria is the strongest out of the choices and her time stop can come in handy
2) Glory is next but she has her weaknesses, Ben for a start.
3) Jasmine is not really that powerful, her strength is in her love. If it was a fight she would lose. I mean she lost to angel!

[Nina]

Jasmine is the strongest I think, she can create a army and control these ... just by being seen. Besides, she was fighting with Willow in a magical fight and she wasn't losing until Connor walked in the room.

Illyria is less strong than the other two, but that can be explained by the human shell and the fact that she isn't a god. Also Glory had trouble with her human shell. Jasmine owned her own body.

But is Illyria a big bad? Isn't she just a very powerful demon who is above good and evil ...

[Revan]

Jasmine I disagree with despite the fact that willow would be able to defeat a army. Especially with her handy flying, and able to not die from fatal wounds.

Illyria would depend Pre or Post Timb Bomb? Pre would win easily as she would just fiddle with the flow of time. Plus she is so strong she is the strongest person in the verse'

Glory is weak, she got beaten by buffy and Jasmine got beaten by angel who is even weaker. This is why I say illyria

[DigitalLeonardo]

3) Jasmine is not really that powerful, her strength is in her love. If it was a fight she would lose. I mean she lost to angel!

Actually she kinda whipped his ass. I mean she threw a car at him. Connor actually finished her, and not even by himself.

Butt I dunno, I think Illyira was the strongest cause she was able to use more then just physical strength. She had the ability to alter time and such, which of course was call.

Glory was powerful, I mean she was kinda the first person to really give Buffy a run for her money. I think when you first watch "The Gift" you're not really sure who's gunna win. Buffy had to use a hammer, magic and other little tricks to even get Glory weak.

Jasmine was powerful, she had the entire world hers (almost...) and if it wasn't for her blood she was pretty much the most powerful. So the strongest yes Jasmine cause she would be the hardest to kill. Glory had Ben, and Illyira (from what I can tell she could be killed. I mean she was in the human body and couldn't heal. Not sure for it's true form... But lets not count that).

Gah, I just don't know.

I'm going with Jasmine.

Jasmine I disagree with despite the fact that willow would be able to defeat a army. Especially with her handy flying, and able to not die from fatal wounds.

Illyria would depend Pre or Post Timb Bomb? Pre would win easily as she would just fiddle with the flow of time. Plus she is so strong she is the strongest person in the verse'

Glory is weak, she got beaten by buffy and Jasmine got beaten by angel who is even weaker. This is why I say illyria

Glory wasn't beaten by Buffy. Buffy alone could not stop Glory, Willow alone could not stop Glory (hello "Tough Love"!). Buffy needed to use Olaf's hammer, Buffy needed to use the sphere thing. Glory was able to heal, if you count Ben as her one weakness then yes, kill Ben, but its not the same.

I don't think Willow is the strongest, I mean Jasmine could easily turn her. I mean everyone was turned to one of her followers, why not Willow? Willow isn't a god. She'd be just as screwed.

[Revan]

Glory wasn't beaten by Buffy. Buffy alone could not stop Glory, Willow alone could not stop Glory (hello "Tough Love"!). Buffy needed to use Olaf's hammer, Buffy needed to use the sphere thing. Glory was able to heal, if you count Ben as her one weakness then yes, kill Ben, but its not the same.

I don't think Willow is the strongest, I mean Jasmine could easily turn her. I mean everyone was turned to one of her followers, why not Willow? Willow isn't a god. She'd be just as screwed.

But buffy still won. A win is a win. Glory could have gotten tools to help her beat buffy but she didn't.

That was s5 willow I'm talking about s8 willow. And she sort of did beat a army.

It all depends on the situation. This is not just raw power, it's also smarts and luck. And the situation.

Yes I agree willow would become a follower but if she knew before hand she could have done something about it.

Okay battle all 4 glare at each other. Willow smiles flys away, destroys earth before going to another dimension.

If it was raw power no brains or anything illyria casue she would just stop time then kill the others.

[DigitalLeonardo]

But buffy still won. A win is a win. Glory could have gotten tools to help her beat buffy but she didn't.

That was s5 willow I'm talking about s8 willow. And she sort of did beat a army.

It all depends on the situation. This is not just raw power, it's also smarts and luck. And the situation.

Yes I agree willow would become a follower but if she knew before hand she could have done something about it.

Okay battle all 4 glare at each other. Willow smiles flys away, destroys earth before going to another dimension.

If it was raw power no brains or anything illyria casue she would just stop time then kill the others.

But Buffy didn't win. Buffy didn't kill Glory, Giles killed Glory. In the end Buffy died, so Glory did kinda win in that sense. If Giles didn't step in, who knows Glory could have came back and simply killed Buffy or tried to kill her again. And plus, Giles killed Ben. No one was able to KILL GLORY... Just slow her down.

Okay, yes season 8 Willow, but think if Jasmine had been there from seaon 4+ and was now in Season 8 Buffy, she would have more power and would be much stronger with a vast army behind her and as a god, she would be able to put up a hell-of-a fight. Jasmine was only weakend because her name was spoken, had that not happend she would still be a threat.

Willow could attack, but Willow would have to kill every human on earth to stop Jasmine, since they fulled her power. And Jasmine in the same sense could "eat" Willow. If with all her powers, Willow can't kill a god.

(And please keep all season 8 spoilers in tags, not everyone is up to date)

[Revan]

Okay

Buffy beat Glory
Giles killed Ben. Glory was weak because she could be killed as Ben which is what happened.

Like I said it all depends on the situation. In a straight on Battle Willow. But in a situation that would have probably happened Willow would have joined with Jasmine any way. Cause she would choose peace over freedom

[KingofCretins]

Jasmine is, from all textual evidence, the tops in the Buffyverse in terms of physical strength. A nice, off-hand way to judge this is through comparing the stuntwork. With an off-balance back-hand, she manages to send Angel flying dozens of feet off an overpass, and then effortlessly throw a car at him. We never get a comparable show of strength from Glory or Illyria, pre- or post-"Time Bomb".

What's more, Jasmine, even without her glamour, appears to be effectively immune from all physical danger. Angel can't so much as throw her off-balance, nor can having a power-line shoved in her chest. She is presumably *only* defeated (and prevented from the global genocide she believes herself capable of) because Connor kills her, and there never is any evidence that anything else *could* have stopped her.

Glory is immensely powerful and functionally invincible as well. Her vulnerability is only through Ben. Even the Hammer of Retcon, for all Buffy's pummeling, is only able to stun her and, after who knows how many blows, give her a bloody nose.

Illyria has similarly exceptional physical strength. Prior to "Time Bomb" she also had the time-manipulating abilities. However, she is not *nearly* as impervious to harm in either state of power as are Jasmine or Glory. Angel is able to floor her in "Shells", albeit with a sucker punch, but that blow wouldn't have done more than amuse Glory or Jasmine. And, of course, Marcus manages to beat her to a pulp. She's certainly outside the one-on-one fighting ability of any of the Buffyverse champions, but I find little evidence that she'd be any match for Glory or Jasmine.

Willow in Season 8... first of all, it's worth noting that this is not Willow at her most powerful. That's still DarkWillow. And even as DarkWillow, her endurance was limited. We saw her break down while chasing the police car, and prove to still be physically vulnerable to a Slayer's strength (i.e. less than any of the these three possible opponents) even after using magic to charge up her strength and invulnerability. She wouldn't be able to pour out the damage to handle any of them in the time it would take for her to reach exhaustion. And, being merely human, any one of them could tear her in half if they got a grip on her and she didn't have her full attention turned to her own defense.

[dinamo]

I'm going off their best showings with this post. At their best I personally see Illyria as the strongest because she had more stuff at her disposal. Her time altering abilities are her biggest asset against anyone. She doesn't need to slug it out like she would have to if she was Glory or Jasmine (once people were immune to her love me aura). She was also the most skilled fighter in my opinion of the three, she didn't just reply on her physical abilities alone. She seemed cleverer in that respect than Glory. She was also pretty invulnerable to physical damage with the axe to the back of her head coming off second best and her not seeming to notice it, and grabbing swords with her hands. She also didn't have a kryptonite weakness that could easily kill her like Ben or Connor/Cordy. Glory was by far the strongest thing we ever saw on Buffy, she just played with Buffy and she could have killed them all any time she wanted. She could have done what Illyria did when she ''killed'' the gang in seconds. They were each all so far above those around them at their most powerful it took others factors to bring them down. I will be honest and say I don't remember too much about Jasmine apart from the car throwing and that bullet scene with Fred where Angel sees what she really looks like. I will say this however those three in a face off would be end of the world time, I'd be on my way the hell out of here as fast as my legs could carry me. I think people woudn't be able to stop it, they'd just have to watch and wait for death.

[Matt]

That's hard 'cause they were all strong in their own ways.

Glory was strong in terms of physical strength, she was probably one of Buffy's most formidable foes in terms of that she could kick Buffy's ass as much as Buffy could kick hers, Illyria was strong in both physical and mental terms because she had the power to alter things around her to fight back and Jasmine was strong in terms of power because she could literally brainwash an entire civilization into loving and adoring her and if needed to fight for her.

So I'd say Jasmine first, then Ilyria and finally Glory.

[Nikkolas]

EDIT
Darn YouTube.

[Pandora's_Box]

Here's my Top

1) Willow: the only one strong enough to destroy the earth in a few minutes (Grave), plus she can fly and all.
2) Pre "Time Bomb" Illarya: she can stop time and is amazingly strong.
3) Jasmine: can't be harmed (people won't want to) but her weakness is in her blood.
4) Post "Time Bomb" Illarya: still very strong.
5) Glory: Half the time, she's a human.

[DigitalLeonardo]

Here's my Top

1) Willow: the only one strong enough to destroy the earth in a few minutes (Grave), plus she can fly and all.

Well technicly ANYONE could have done that. Its not like Willow used own her powers to destroy the world, she had to use that temple to focous her energy. So in reality anyone with a bit of magic could have done that, I'm sure if they wanted Glory or Jasmine could have done the same thing.

And do people forget that Glory was dropped about 100 stories in the air and was bouncing around the next episode? Now there is power.

KingofCretins brings up actually a really good point. Dark Willow's powers are limited, she needs to keep reboosting herself (I'm guessing the same would be for Willow. Even after "Chosen" she was drained, Kennedy had to help her out of the school. Had she been attacked in the office there is no telling if she would live or be harmed. She couldn't even stand up)

Jasmine and Glory ARE limited, but not as much. Jasmine does need to feed but has been seen to be able to hold out longer, Glory is kinda of the same. That would be their greatest weakness - their need for human substance. Glory needs brains and Jasmine needs... well all of them. Which kinda puts them at advantage if they wanna fight Willow. How hard would it be for Jasmine to eat or, or Glory to get close enough to braindrain her?

[AllenGray]

Pointing out that all three were significantly de-powered when introduced to the cast because they were housed by human bodies, and Illyria was de-powered again by the thing i can't remember how to spell. We never really witness how powerful Glory or Illyria are and we're led to believe that in their natural states they would be infinite prefixes more powerful than they are. I'd like to say Illyria, Glory ruled another dimension with two hell-gods, Illyria ruled earth while it was infested with continents of Old Ones. Plus the brain-cell ratio is something like 5:1 in favor of Illyria. Jasmine might be the most physically capable of the three when the other two are rocking the mortal coil but I doubt she's prepared for either Illyria or Glory in their natual divine states. And her big plan was to conquer the world through religion which is a major cliche.

[Nikkolas]

So why is Jasmine the physiclaly strongest? She ever survive something like that fall Glory did after the teleportation spell? Or how about something like the beating Glory got in The Gift? All this did practically nothing.

[DigitalLeonardo]

So why is Jasmine the physiclaly strongest? She ever survive something like that fall Glory did after the teleportation spell? Or how about something like the beating Glory got in The Gift? All this did practically nothing.

Well Glory was shot, and survived that. She was also hit with a large jolt of electricity by Angel (using the fallen powerline), something that she was able to just stand up and walk away from. She wasn't even in pain, as apose to Glory who was attacked by a similar electric shock (by Willow) seemed to be in great pain.

Pointing out that all three were significantly de-powered when introduced to the cast because they were housed by human bodies, and Illyria was de-powered again by the thing i can't remember how to spell. We never really witness how powerful Glory or Illyria are and we're led to believe that in their natural states they would be infinite prefixes more powerful than they are. I'd like to say Illyria, Glory ruled another dimension with two hell-gods, Illyria ruled earth while it was infested with continents of Old Ones. Plus the brain-cell ratio is something like 5:1 in favor of Illyria. Jasmine might be the most physically capable of the three when the other two are rocking the mortal coil but I doubt she's prepared for either Illyria or Glory in their natual divine states. And her big plan was to conquer the world through religion which is a major cliche.

This is actually a good point, and kinda the reason why we'll never know. We also don't know if Jasmine was in her true form (cause I beleive her true form was more powerful - being one of the powers that be and all.) But I think for this despute its best to think mortal-forms, seeing as we were never given the full exstent of all their powers and only know what Illyria's true form looks like.

For all we know Glory is a fire breathing uber dragon.

[Ralphie]

So why is Jasmine the physiclaly strongest? She ever survive something like that fall Glory did after the teleportation spell? Or how about something like the beating Glory got in The Gift? All this did practically nothing.

Well in Peace Out Jasmine picks up a car and throws it at Angel, I haven't seen Glory do that

[Nikkolas]

Well Glory was shot, and survived that. She was also hit with a large jolt of electricity by Angel (using the fallen powerline), something that she was able to just stand up and walk away from. She wasn't even in pain, as apose to Glory who was attacked by a similar electric shock (by Willow) seemed to be in great pain.

Well you're comparing real electricity with magically conjured electricity/lightning. I don't think that's too wise but I guess we can't really tell how they compare in power.

Well in Peace Out Jasmine picks up a car and throws it at Angel, I haven't seen Glory do that

I also didn't see Jasmine collapse a building's foundation just by hopping up once or twice in annoyance.

[Revan]

We have to go by what's specificly in the shows. Because otherwise we get into fluff ( background made-up stuff to flesh out the characters.)

Imagine what would happen if willow actually could drain the life force of her opponent. Haven't seen any proof but I think she could do it from range. Also she wouldn't really be killable think about. She's a smart girl do you really think that she will let them get close enough to attack her. No of course not. She potenially has limitless power becaus e whenever she gets low she could go drain someone and be good as new.

She doesn't need power anyway she can use their own power against them or manipulate the environment. Just knock them into a pit like happened with buffy in s8 and laugh. and throw down fireballs. They never would catch her. Biggest problem would be illyria slowing down time and getting close because we can't just give her any ability she doesn't use in canon texts. Otherwise unstoppable.

The Problem with Glory is ben. She will always lose because of him. And everyone would know that if they kill him then she is out. Except willow.

This fight is in physical form. If we went by fluff this would turn into us making up powers so their unbound form is irrelevent. Not that they could do anything anyway. That's why they took physical form in the 1st place.

In conclusion willow will win because if she has any brains (which she does) their strengtht will never come into play unless they throw something at her which she would probably dodge or block with a forcefield.