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  • Bangel Revelation!

    The biggest idea about Bangel just crossed my mind.
    I finally saw Angel The Series, and something just hit me. Angel has 241 years old in Buffy season 1!!! Let me explain it. Through the episodes of Angel you can see Angel is a real mature guy as a human I mean, between 1898 and 1998. How could he possibly fell in love of season 1 Buffy, she IS just a kid has it been said in Devotion I think. She is pretty, peppy, everything you want but she has young spirit, girl talks and all. It didn't hit me before cause in Buffy you don't see that much of Angel's past as a human but in Angel the series like "Are You or Have You Ever Been" you can see he's really an adult. Back in Becoming Part I, he fall in love of Buffy at the first sight, euh excuse me but I just can't buy that, what on earth could he like about her? And don't call it love at first sight because that means only that you find someone beautiful, you can't love a person without knowing her.
    And now I even find pervert that love of Angel for Buffy in season 1.
    I'd really like to talk about that.
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  • #2
    That never really bothered me.. the fact that Angel was so old.. because come on.. in reality he was and acted at an age of 26-28.. which is roughly 10 years older than Buffy.. but I think that was what was so intimate and important to their relationship.... the fact that it was wrong in the standards on a human level (10 year difference? Under 18?).. and the fact that she was a slayer and he was a vampire.. In terms of on an acceptance level, I don't see it as "wrong" or "gross" or sick on any level.. simply because it was such a beautiful relationship.. between two people that love each other. It was not like seeing a 30 year old man or father having an affair with a 16 year old.. no one even lives past their first 100 years, so I take it more as vampire years just as with dogs we have their own years to count.
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    • #3
      Yeah this has been discussed many times and I don't have a problem with it whatsoever. No matter what Buffy's age, wether it be 16 or 21, she is incredibly young compared to Angel or Spike so the 'twisted old man' title can still apply regardless of her age. This is a show called 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' so I'm really not going to hold it against the writers or the character of Angel for falling in love with someone that much younger. Especially when Buffy was the aggressor in the relationship and Angel was in no way pervy or like an old man throughout their relationship.

      I can get over Buffy shagging two dead corpses who drink pigs blood, I can get over Buffy having a relationship with an older guy

      Besides it isn't as if she calls him 'daddy' remember Angel's worry during 'Helpless' when Buffy says she had a date with an older man? Both Angel and Buffy don't view their relationship in that way. Technically Spike is a perverted as well, seeing that James played him as perving on her (at the time still 16 even though during s2) when she was dancing in the Bronze during ?Schoolhard.'

      In my opinion, age isn't a factor really, not in this show.

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      • #4
        Mine isn't a problem of age, otherwise it would have hit me before, it is a problem of maturity and feelings, I picture Angel as we can see him in Angel's flashbacks from 1898 to 1998 and then I picture Buffy at Hemery and I can't believe it. Take Cordelia for instance, he ignored her for like 4 years which was understandable, she was just a kid, he starts to fell in love with her when she became an adult. The same for Spike, he didn't fell in love with her when she was seventeen. I understand Buffy could have a crush on Angel, sure, but I can't believe a man like Angel would fell something for a teenage like Buffy.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Pandora's_Box View Post
          Mine isn't a problem of age, otherwise it would have hit me before, it is a problem of maturity and feelings, I picture Angel as we can see him in Angel's flashbacks from 1898 to 1998 and then I picture Buffy at Hemery and I can't believe it.
          Angel was actually pretty spot on about his observations of Buffy upon first seeing her at Hemery. He says that he saw her heart and how big it was, and then he saw her get called and the massive responsibilities placed on her which led to further hardships at home. IMO, Buffy has always been mature far beyond her years, she has had to deal with a lot more.

          Angel also states in ?Halloween' that the girls back in his day were boring and predictable, "simpering morons" was the words he chose to use. Buffy was different, Buffy was the complete opposite of all these things. IMO, it makes perfect sense he'd be instantly attracted to her. She was about to lead an exciting life.

          Take Cordelia for instance, he ignored her for like 4 years which was understandable, she was just a kid, he starts to fell in love with her when she became an adult.
          Angel could begin to fall in love with Cordelia when she grew out of her snobby ditzy bitch stage and into an actual mature person who could handle responsibility and give a damn about others. Many of the traits Cordy grew over time where traits already present in high school Buffy after she was forced to grow up after becoming the slayer. It had less to do with Cordy being a kid and more to do with how immature and horrible she was as a person back then.

          The same for Spike, he didn't fell in love with her when she was seventeen. I understand Buffy could have a crush on Angel, sure, but I can't believe a man like Angel would fell something for a teenage like Buffy.
          Well according to Joss Whedon, which I actually find bull, Spike did and always had loved her. And lets face it, both Angel and Spike have been around a long, long time and have seen things and experienced things Buffy hasn't. Regarldess of her age at this point in the series they are always going to have experienced a lot more than her.

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          • #6
            Yes, I agree with that.
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            • #7
              I agree with Nostalgia & vampmogs. I never really thought about the age difference that way before. I won't repeat everything the posters above me just said, but I want to say that Angel was pretty immature for his age. Angel acted like a teenager the most of the time ... a quiet one but still a teenager. Buffy was mature for her age. So they were (almost) on the same level. And Angel is not a person who is hitting on young girls, he loved Buffy because who she was, not for her age.

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              • #8
                I'd also like to point out Angel never saw Buffy as a kid. Angel calls Xander just a kid in 'Some Assembly Required' and Buffy asks if that makes her just a kid. I think it is pretty clear he viewed her as something different, the fact he'd scoff at the idea of being remotely effected by anything Xander does one way or another because he is a kid, and yet falls madly in love with Buffy of the same to me at least, indicates he never saw Buffy in the same light.

                Angel identified with Buffy on many levels but one big was the fact she was a slayer and was a part of his world in that way. And IMO the fact she was a slayer and had to deal with so much was what Angel fixated on more so than her age, even Joyce admits even she sometimes forgot that Buffy was just a kid because she'd had to grow up so fast and deal with so much.

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                • #9
                  I don't think there's a way to look at the set-up objectively without finding it just a *little* icky... but I really don't think it's anything we were meant to spend much objective time thinking about. We've seen Angel as pretty stunted emotionally in other contexts -- they've always been careful not to treat him like Duncan or Connor McLeod with the Constant Profound Historical Perspective stuff (he only wishes he could brood like the Highlander guys). Could one of the Highlander characters have fallen for Buffy? I really doubt it. But Angel did, because Angel never really grew up -- he was grossly immature when turned, embraced evil with a child's joy, and after he got his soul, tried his best to hide from who he was. So, he was arguably an emotional... 20 year old?... when he met Buffy.
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                  • #10
                    This may sound odd, but I think she actually kind of amused him sometimes LOL. She was just so sweet, but yet so naive about some subjects and it just made him smile (if you noticed like I did). Also, I think in a way she kept him "young" - when they couldn't keep their hands off each other in "Bad Eggs," I mean... wow. Talk about your crazy-junior high-puppy 'madly in love'- love, right? That's what I thought about it anyway. Being with her made everything new for him in a way because a lot of it was new to her. It kept things interesting

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                    • #11
                      I've always thought Angel was a bit of a nonce for going for such a young girl (lollypop scene especially). But, she's legal so...I guess that's ok. Sort of...

                      The extra age on top of him being an adult and her being a kid doesn't make so much difference to me. But the idea of 1950s angel and Buffy is probably extra disturbing, because he's so...I don't know, Gordon Brownish and dour and old mannish. But, a time travel fic might be fun to explore that...


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                      • #12
                        I guess it all depends on the person and their intentions. Angel saw Buffy and wanted to help her because he saw her heart. He didn't look at her and go "oh break me off a piece of that" he wasn't perving on her. And when he comes to Sunnydale he isn't the aggressor in the relationship. Sure he flirts a little but he's fallen for her, but he doesn't want to get close. He makes a big effort at the start not to get close. He even points out the age thing
                        Last edited by vampmogs; 21-02-09, 03:17 PM.

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                        • #13
                          angel's been ripped out of his "family", dying young, being "cursed" with a duty, being isolated, fearing telling anybody who (or what) he was, etc... is purposefully in there to relate to buffy's situation as the slayer.

                          the reason angel loved her is because she taught him to have faith in humanity for the first time ever. not even liam had faith in humanity. angel had no moral compass to guide him until he met buffy. that is where he understood why he was fighting and what he was fighting for. for the first time, he truly cared about someone other than himself (and who didn't betray him when learning of his identity, like judy kovacs). watch "heartthrob" to understand his relationship with darla to compare.

                          angel saw in buffy a part of what he wished to be.

                          "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                          "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

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                          • #14
                            I agree with KoC. Many say that Angel comes from a time where it may have been more acceptable and that he hasn't matured emotionally since then.


                            My brother watched it(although he watched it so briefly he shouldn't have an opinion lol) that Angel would a drunken layabout behaving more like 'Liam' rather than being 'Angely' .

                            I had to at least agree with that. Angel isn't the same person psychologically or emotionally as he was when he was human, first re ensoulled and when he first tried to help humans.

                            However we cannot know what it's like to be a 241 year old vampire who has a history of brutality because as far as I know, no one has been through that. Angel can be emotionally stunted but also amazingly emotionally mature and intuitive. Buffy has shown great fortitude and mental aptitude. Her behaviour has also caused Angel to say she's acting like a brat. I feel there is this rich tapestry we almost cannot entirely access to their relationship because the circumstances are beyond the realm of what we can feasibly understand.

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                            • #15
                              angel was 243 (i know, trifles) in most of season 1.

                              btw... i figured out the answer to what month season 1 starts... the harvest refers to the moon cycles (yes, i'm slow). the harvest was on september 26, 1996... so, just for those that want to know when buffy started at sunnydale... it also explains why buffy was at the 1996 cheerleader tryouts (it says so on the board--also, cheerleader tryouts are usually in october-november) in an episode that aired in 1997. ditto with the advent of septus which actually comes out to be on november 26, 1996 (yes, i really did the math using the fact that winter months--61 days a year--were not counted as days in ancient calendars--if you include them, the date ends up mid-summer--and that doesn't work.).

                              the point of that? buffy had her 16th birthday somewhere around angel/i, robot...you jane. she was 15 when the series started.

                              also... her birthday wasn't on january 19... unless the scoobies were all at school on a sunday (now, that's depressing). her birthday must actually be the 20th.

                              (i have a timeline pet-project going.)
                              Last edited by NileQT87; 12-12-07, 11:27 AM.

                              "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                              "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

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                              • #16
                                Just a thought - how old was Xander when he and Anya went to prom together? Cause, she was WAY older than Angel...


                                -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Wolfie Gilmore View Post
                                  Just a thought - how old was Xander when he and Anya went to prom together? Cause, she was WAY older than Angel...
                                  He was 18 at the time I am pretty sure. Why I think that I am not sure, but I'm confident he was. He was 17 in 'Innocence' of s2 and it has at least been a year since then by the time 'The Prom' happens so he must be 18. Geesh I worked out why I thought this as I typed it, you've now witnessed my brain working.

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                                  • #18
                                    aud became anyanka in 880 AD (and she's at least twenty + years older than that--so she was born somewhere in the 850s). anya had been a demon for 1,119 years + 20-odd human years when xander was 18.

                                    kind of makes the wee 228/254 years between buffy and angel seem insignificant. heh, darla and angel are about 142 years apart, themselves. there are 131 years between buffy and spike.

                                    and yes, apparently xander's birthday is before buffy's (meaning he was born between november 1980 to mid-january 1981 to be in that grade-level).

                                    as for darla a.k.a. 'unknown whore', she likely was born in approximately 1585 (taking julie's age starting the character--which was 24). liam was born in 1727. drusilla was born in the 1830s and spike was born in 1850 (seems like his official vamped age was 30).

                                    who thinks the master was roman? all that "glory" and marcus aurelius makes me think so. heinrich joseph nest--anglo-german--seems way too recent to have him only be 600 years old... he was not anywhere near 200 when he vamped darla.
                                    Last edited by NileQT87; 12-12-07, 12:18 PM.

                                    "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                                    "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Darla was also nowhere near 400 years old when she was dusted, she was nearer 388.

                                      Spike also seems to lie about his age (see Inititive and School Hard) not to mention the Halloween flub with Angel, so I'm not too fussed with the exact ages, let's just say old. lol

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                                      • #20
                                        i did some rounding to the nearest hundred when i mentioned how old the master was supposed to be. and yes, she was 387 + approx. 24 when she was staked in "angel" (likely around december 1996--the show wasn't written as a mid-season replacement--it's very clear in season 1 that some of it happens in 1996--the september-only harvest moon being a big clue). that comes out to be in the whereabouts of 411 years old for darla when she was staked. remember there's about 20-30 human years that get dropped frequently from the vampires' ages.

                                        "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                                        "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

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