Spuffy+Hate Club

[KingofCretins What? Find all posts View Profile Close KingofCretins]

Because we need a temp forum, too!

Your Spuffy+Hate quote of the day: "You're just... convenient."

Members:

KingofCretins
redrevo
THE BLUE
vampmogs
Salvation

[redrevo Hellmouth Tourist Find all posts View Profile Close redrevo]

Sign me up please.

I'll add a few:

"Here's why. If you don't admit ... that there's something there ... some tiny feeling for me ... then I'll untie Dru, let her kill you instead."

Buffy: "Ask me again why I could never love you."
Spike: "Buffy, my god, I didn't-"
Buffy: "Because I stopped you. Something I should have done a long time ago. "

Buffy: "Will you quit that? The only thing that's different is that I'm disgusted with myself. That's the power of your charms. Last night ... was the most perverse ... degrading experience of my life."

[THE BLUE Hellmouth Tourist Find all posts View Profile Close THE BLUE]

You can sign me up too.

[KingofCretins What? Find all posts View Profile Close KingofCretins]

"Say it's true. Say I did want to. It wouldn't be you, Spike. It would *never* be you."

"You're beneath me."

[redrevo Hellmouth Tourist Find all posts View Profile Close redrevo]

This thread needs a bump.

From "Beneath You":

"Everything about you is wrong, Spike."

[vampmogs Slayer Supporter Find all posts View Profile Close vampmogs]

Please sign me up I've never been a member of a club before on BW or Buffyforums, this is the perfect club to start

Here's a nice little line just to annoy some Spuffy's

"One vampire got me hot, one! But he's gone, you're just- you're just conveniant"

and

"You are dead inside! I could never be your girl!"

[Salvation Hellmouth Tourist Find all posts View Profile Close Salvation]

Add me too ^^

[bishopcruz Hellmouth Tourist Find all posts View Profile Close bishopcruz]

Sign me up as well. Spuffy just annoyed the ever loving hell out of me. Especially in S7.

From Crush:

WILLOW: They could have the wedding right there. Beneath the very bell-tower where he labored thanklessly for all those years.

TARA: No, see, it can't, it can't end like that, 'cause all of Quasimodo's actions were selfishly motivated. He had no moral compass, no understanding of right. Everything he did, he did out of love for a woman who would never be able to love him back. (They come to a vending machine and stop walking. Tara digs in her purse. Willow looks in hers as well) Also, you can tell it's not gonna have a happy ending when the main guy's all bumpy.

[Nikki Mighty Power Find all posts View Profile Close Nikki]

I can please direct Salvation, redrevo vbmenu_register("postmenu_10210", true); and THE BLUE towards the stick thread at the top of this section called 'Clubs and Ships rules'

This is a discussion forum, 'can I join' and 'bump this thread with a quote' are not the sort of posts BFN is about. Please discuss your hate of Spuffy or don't post.

I will be forced to close this club if you can't find anything to say

[redrevo Hellmouth Tourist Find all posts View Profile Close redrevo]

Thanks Nikki for the reminder, no more bumps coming from here

Well then, let's get this going again! We used to be one of the most active clubs on BW, that can't be all for nothing can it?

Without further ado...When did you start hating Spuffy and why?

I started to hate Spuffy back at the end of "Crush," when Spike had Buffy and Dru tied up in his "basement." Before he had been a tad awkwardly funny to watch, but once he threatened to kill Buffy unless she said she had some sort of feelings for him, the whole thing just got pushed over the edge. IMO, if you're willing to hurt or even kill your "loved one" for something other than saving a life, you don't care about the person enough for it to be called "love."

[Vyse Hellmouth Tourist Find all posts View Profile Close Vyse]

LOL, you guys truly can't stand Spuffy

Before I get beheaded, let me clear this up... I'm not Spuffy And I'm not even Bangel, truth be told

In all honesty though, I don't think Spuffy is so totally negative Spike did show in more than one circumstance that he cared for Buffy. Dawn is alive because he didn't tell Glory. I think he does deserve some level of credit for that.

The only truly horrifying thing I ever saw about Spuffy that I find extremely difficult, if not impossible, to forgive is the attempted rape. I saw that scene recently after a long time, and I didn't remember it was so powerful and disturbing. Seeing Buffy screaming like that with Spike not listening but instead being even more determined to force himself on her is just... shocking. And I still have to fully decide if going to get a soul to make up for it is enough to earn forgiveness. But I think all Spuffy shippers were horrified at what he tried to do too.

[ykickamoocow Hellmouth Tourist Find all posts View Profile Close ykickamoocow]

LOL, you guys truly can't stand Spuffy

Before I get beheaded, let me clear this up... I'm not Spuffy And I'm not even Bangel, truth be told

In all honesty though, I don't think Spuffy is so totally negative Spike did show in more than one circumstance that he cared for Buffy. Dawn is alive because he didn't tell Glory. I think he does deserve some level of credit for that.

The only truly horrifying thing I ever saw about Spuffy that I find extremely difficult, if not impossible, to forgive is the attempted rape. I saw that scene recently after a long time, and I didn't remember it was so powerful and disturbing. Seeing Buffy screaming like that with Spike not listening but instead being even more determined to force himself on her is just... shocking. And I still have to fully decide if going to get a soul to make up for it is enough to earn forgiveness. But I think all Spuffy shippers were horrified at what he tried to do too.

I hate Spuffy with a passion. The arguement that Buffy only slept with Spike in season 6 so she could feel something always makes me think of those gothic people who cut themselves just to feel something even though it could potentially kill them.

[vampmogs Slayer Supporter Find all posts View Profile Close vampmogs]

The only truly horrifying thing I ever saw about Spuffy that I find extremely difficult, if not impossible, to forgive is the attempted rape. I saw that scene recently after a long time, and I didn't remember it was so powerful and disturbing. Seeing Buffy screaming like that with Spike not listening but instead being even more determined to force himself on her is just... shocking. And I still have to fully decide if going to get a soul to make up for it is enough to earn forgiveness. But I think all Spuffy shippers were horrified at what he tried to do too.

Unfortunately a lot of Spuffy shippers tend to lean towards the idea that this was all Buffy's fault and she led him on

I think Spuffy gets a way with too much, perhaps people just want to believe it was more mushy than it really was or perhaps it is because there is such a strong fanbase for Spike but some of the things I hear in support for Spuffy are ludicrous IMO. I can completely agree with redrevo when he states he can't support a relationship in which one member threatens to kill the other if they don't admit feelings for them. I mean c'mon, how could we ever support that? It isn't even if it ends there, we then have Spike taunting Buffy about the fact she came back wrong and physically attacking her for the fun of it. We have Spike telling Buffy that she doesn't belong with her friends, even though he states in Fool For Love they are the only reason she's survived as long as she has, and this is all an attempt to manipulate Buffy to go into the dark with him. And of course we have the attempted rape which is still pushed under the rug for the sake of loving Spuffy.

I always believed the entire point of Spuffy was too show a dangerous and unhealthy relationship, the whole point of the sixth season was to bring the main characters down to their lowest points. So why on earth is there people who try and say it was all about fuzzy wuzzy love and candy when it was anything but? I don't mind Spuffy shippers or realise what the ship was and love it (although I don't see how) for what it really was. However, nothing irritates me more than those who try and paint Spuffy as something it wasn't. Sure it had nice moments; albeit few and far between but the horrible moments far outweigh the nice.

After watching As You Were earlier today I cannot help but feel I need to post a rant...

Firstly; I can't believe myself or any other member who dislikes Spuffy has never brought up what Spike feels he can call Buffy; a "bint." Aside from the fact he is being blatantly rude and ignorant to think Buffy's feelings aren't being hurt as he brags to Riley about doing his girlfriend as she sits next to him, the word he uses to describe Buffy (right in front of her) is extremely offensive. TWOP believes it means, and I'll spoiler this so it remains unseen

Spoiler:

cu#t

and others believe it means a woman who is easy, easy meat or of easy virtue. Either way it is extremely derogative and yet Spike feels he can call Buffy such a thing and right in front of her? Gah- and this guy is supposed to love and care for her? Pfftt

Secondly, just look at Riley's speech to Buffy in comparison to what Spike says to her throughout s6. Riley is telling her she is amazing, that no matter how hard her life is that she'll pull through because she is one hell of a woman. What does Spike say? Oh yeah that she is wrong, taunting her about being a demon, that she belongs in the dark with him- and that if her friends ever found out they'd drive her out. As You Were really does make a case why Ruffy is just so much better than Spuffy ever was. For Spike, who claims to love Buffy so much; I find it incredibly disgusting for him to act this way towards Buffy and to name her such things as a 'bint.'

And then of course we have the end, when Buffy finally gets her inner strength (From Riley who comes back for one episode and is able to motivate her) to tell Spike it is over. And that she can't love him.

This episode is one of many that seals the deal for me that Bangel and Ruffy are far better than Spuffy.

And I just had to add in something from TWOP that sums up why Bangel/Ruffy will always come up trumps for me in comparison to Spuffy. The reviewer is referring to the scene in the graveyard between Spike and Buffy during Normal Again;

Spike sniffs, "Some people can't see a good thing when they've got it." Ah yes, in retrospect I'm sure Buffy regrets how she casually threw away her chances for more feelings of shame, emotional manipulation, and creepy semi-public gropings.

[KingofCretins What? Find all posts View Profile Close KingofCretins]

The relationship is marked by threats, abuse, and insults all the way around. A pattern initiated, unambiguously, by Spike, and then exacerbated by Buffy.

At least some of the appeal of a 'ship must surely be that it represents some idealized relationship, some ability to self-insert, something to emulate. Who, anywhere, is going to look back on a relationship or, in thinking of a current one, say "the relationship needs to be more like Spuffy"?

Firstly; I can't believe myself or any other member who dislikes Spuffy has never brought up what Spike feels he can call Buffy; a "bint." Aside from the fact he is being blatantly rude and ignorant to think Buffy's feelings aren't being hurt as he brags to Riley about doing his girlfriend as she sits next to him, the word he uses to describe Buffy (right in front of her) is extremely offensive.

Yeah, the aftermath of Buffy's "tell me you love me" reassurance sex is to listen in relative humiliation while her current lover basically makes her sound like a more life-like sexbot to her former lover. I assume this is just another example of how Buffy was the dominant partner and all sexually liberated. Completely unlike when she was all helpless and repressed, like when she promised to put Riley and Angel in the hospital if they didn't stow their macho BS. She's obviously a much more powerful female icon in "As You Were".

Spike sniffs, "Some people can't see a good thing when they've got it." Ah yes, in retrospect I'm sure Buffy regrets how she casually threw away her chances for more feelings of shame, emotional manipulation, and creepy semi-public gropings.

Go Ace and/or Sep!

[LRae12 Unapolagetic Mocker Find all posts View Profile Close LRae12]

Unfortunately a lot of Spuffy shippers tend to lean towards the idea that this was all Buffy's fault and she led him on

Well, I for one am not one of those... Of course Buffy didn't lead him on...she told him outright she wasn't going to sleep with him again. So, no not Buffy's fault in any way.

I think Spuffy gets a way with too much, perhaps people just want to believe it was more mushy than it really was or perhaps it is because there is such a strong fanbase for Spike but some of the things I hear in support for Spuffy are ludicrous IMO.

I agree to an extent. The fanbase for Spike does support the Spuffy ship. I for one can say that Spike is my favorite character and it goes a long way to the Spuffy love... As far as 'mushy' - no I never saw it that way at all.

I can completely agree with redrevo when he states he can't support a relationship in which one member threatens to kill the other if they don't admit feelings for them. I mean c'mon, how could we ever support that?

But see, what you don't realize is that Spike doesn't know what REAL love is. He's a vampire. He 'loved' Drusilla but at the end of Lover's Walk he said he was going off to tie her up until she liked him again. It's what he knew.

It isn't even if it ends there, we then have Spike taunting Buffy about the fact she came back wrong and physically attacking her for the fun of it. We have Spike telling Buffy that she doesn't belong with her friends, even though he states in Fool For Love they are the only reason she's survived as long as she has, and this is all an attempt to manipulate Buffy to go into the dark with him.

Well, yeah...he's a vampire. He's manipulative and twisted. Again, it's what he knew.

And of course we have the attempted rape which is still pushed under the rug for the sake of loving Spuffy.

See, I don't see it as being pushed under the rug...at least not from my own personal point of view. I think it was more a turning point. It was a wake up call to Spike. In his own twisted way, he did care about Buffy, and without a soul or conscience he realized how wrong he was. Just on sheer feelings alone. The AR was absolutely revolting and wrong. Not a highlight in the Spuffy ship, but a breaking point.

I always believed the entire point of Spuffy was too show a dangerous and unhealthy relationship, the whole point of the sixth season was to bring the main characters down to their lowest points.

I absolutely agree. I view S6 Spuffy as a downward spiral for Buffy. In the first half, ok, there was some sweeter moments, but from Smashed on it turned to dark and twisted, and I think it was meant to. I don't think the writers intended for it to be 'true love' in this season because it wasn't. It was about...well, Buffy summed it up nicely herself in Wrecked when she said 'last night was the most perverse, degrading experience of my life'. I think S6 Spuffy was all about Buffy trying to be as degrading to herself as she could. Because she didn't believe she WAS truly human, so what was the point of being 'pure'?

So why on earth is there people who try and say it was all about fuzzy wuzzy love and candy when it was anything but? I don't mind Spuffy shippers or realise what the ship was and love it (although I don't see how) for what it really was. However, nothing irritates me more than those who try and paint Spuffy as something it wasn't. Sure it had nice moments; albeit few and far between but the horrible moments far outweigh the nice.

In S6, I would agree. But I don't personally think S6 Spuffy is where the real 'love' in the ship entered...it entered in S7 once Spike got his soul and could FINALLY comprehend what love is.

After watching As You Were earlier today I cannot help but feel I need to post a rant about how wrong and damaging Spuffy was.

Firstly; I can't believe myself or any other member who dislikes Spuffy has never brought up what Spike feels he can call Buffy; a "bint." Aside from the fact he is being blatantly rude and ignorant to think Buffy's feelings aren't being hurt as he brags to Riley about doing his girlfriend as she sits next to him, the word he uses to describe Buffy (right in front of her) is extremely offensive. TWOP believes it means, and I'll spoiler this so it remains unseen

Spoiler:

****

and others believe it means a woman who is easy, easy meat or of easy virtue. Either way it is extremely derogative and yet Spike feels he can call Buffy such a thing and right in front of her? Gah- Spuffy hate is boiling in my blood, and this guy is supposed to love and care for her? Pfftt

Secondly, just look at Riley's speech to Buffy in comparison to what Spike says to her throughout s6. Riley is telling her she is amazing, that no matter how hard her life is that she'll pull through because she is one hell of a woman. What does Spike say? Oh yeah that she is wrong, taunting her about being a demon, that she belongs in the dark with him- and that if her friends ever found out they'd drive her out. As You Were really does make a case why Ruffy is just so much better than Spuffy ever was. For Spike, who claims to love Buffy so much; I find it incredibly disgusting for him to act this way towards Buffy and to name her such things as a 'bint.'

And then of course we have the end, when Buffy finally gets her inner strength (From Riley who comes back for one episode and is able to motivate her) to tell Spike it is over. And that she can't love him.

Again, Spike was a soulless monster...so he's twisted and doing what came naturally...I'm not making excuses for him, just stating a fact...

The real Spuffy ship began in Lessons. Their past sexcapades added a history, obviously, and of course being a Spuffy fan I enjoyed S6 to an extent, but the beauty of the ship is in Spike's redemption. Because he was so horrified with himself for the AR - which being soulless and conscience-less is a feat in itself - he seeks out his soul. On his own. Not understanding the full consequences of that at the time. Once he has his soul, everything changes. HE realizes how he treated Buffy and how horrible and disgusting it was...yet he tries to make amends all through S7. And at the end he sacrifices his life for her and the world...that's love. To lay your life down for others. And even into Ats, he loved Buffy enough to realize he wasn't right for her, to stay away.

People want to criticize Spike's treatment of Buffy in S6 like they would if he had a soul. But what everyone fails to realize or ignore is the fact that he didn't.

This episode is one of many that seals the deal for me that Bangel and Ruffy are far better than Spuffy.

Angelus didn't treat Buffy any better - in fact MUCH worse than Spike. But everyone accepts that Angel and Angelus are two different people...so are Spike & Soulful!Spike. I don't think it's fair to base hate of a ship solely on S6...of course that's your right... but S7 shows a much better and healthy relationship based on respect, trust, and forgiveness. Which if Buffy can forgive Spike for what he did to HER, then I think we can cut him some slack as well.

Ok, don't beat me to death with a shovel now...

[THE BLUE Hellmouth Tourist Find all posts View Profile Close THE BLUE]

I always believed the entire point of Spuffy was too show a dangerous and unhealthy relationship, the whole point of the sixth season was to bring the main characters down to their lowest points. So why on earth is there people who try and say it was all about fuzzy wuzzy love and candy when it was anything but? I don't mind Spuffy shippers or realise what the ship was and love it (although I don't see how) for what it really was. However, nothing irritates me more than those who try and paint Spuffy as something it wasn't. Sure it had nice moments; albeit few and far between but the horrible moments far outweigh the nice.

I hate the 6th Season because of Spuffy and bringing the characters to their lowest. I mean, moments of being at lowest can be tolerated but it being for the whole season? Spuffy is seen as a loyal and naturalistic and realistic love story and I can't see that. I don't buy the "Spike loved Buffy too much and she treated him badly" argument either.

[vampmogs Slayer Supporter Find all posts View Profile Close vampmogs]

Well, I for one am not one of those... Of course Buffy didn't lead him on...she told him outright she wasn't going to sleep with him again. So, no not Buffy's fault in any way.

And your proof that not all Spuffy fans are completely blinded by their love for Spike or the ship in general. Of course there are others like you, on this forum as well, however unfortunately I come across a lot of them that give the rest of you a bad name. I am sure there are the same fans for Bangel and even Ruffy as well, but the atrocities committed during Spuffy make it all the more worse when people don't see the extent of damage they resulted in.

I agree to an extent. The fanbase for Spike does support the Spuffy ship. I for one can say that Spike is my favorite character and it goes a long way to the Spuffy love... As far as 'mushy' - no I never saw it that way at all.

Somehow some fans do see it as mushy, I could never see why The whole point of Spuffy was to be anything but mushy and yet they call themselves fans but can't bring to see the relationship as what it was meant to be. As for liking a ship based on your character, well I don't see why this happens. My fave is Buffy but I don't automatically like any relationship she is in, in fact I like her best alone. But I guess that's just me.

But see, what you don't realize is that Spike doesn't know what REAL love is. He's a vampire. He 'loved' Drusilla but at the end of Lover's Walk he said he was going off to tie her up until she liked him again. It's what he knew.

I'd like to think I do realise that, and hence the problem I find when trying to talk about Spuffy with few selected fans who believe Spike is capable of love. One reason I dislike Spuffy is because Buffy is sleeping with a soulless vampire, it isn't Angel this is Spike and he is evil and only unable to kill because of the chip unwillingly placed in his head.

Well, yeah...he's a vampire. He's manipulative and twisted. Again, it's what he knew.

And is why I hate the relationship

See, I don't see it as being pushed under the rug...at least not from my own personal point of view. I think it was more a turning point. It was a wake up call to Spike. In his own twisted way, he did care about Buffy, and without a soul or conscience he realized how wrong he was. Just on sheer feelings alone. The AR was absolutely revolting and wrong. Not a highlight in the Spuffy ship, but a breaking point.

Well did he realise how wrong he was? At first he is upset about it but then asks himself, "why didn't I do it?" then asks "what has SHE done to me," as if this is somehow, what Buffy's fault? I never think he fully realised he did something bad, he couldn't really understand just how bad his actions were. All he knew is Buffy didn't like it and he just demolished any chances he had of having a relationship with her- hence he feels a soul will win Buffy over.

I absolutely agree. I view S6 Spuffy as a downward spiral for Buffy. In the first half, ok, there was some sweeter moments, but from Smashed on it turned to dark and twisted, and I think it was meant to. I don't think the writers intended for it to be 'true love' in this season because it wasn't. It was about...well, Buffy summed it up nicely herself in Wrecked when she said 'last night was the most perverse, degrading experience of my life'. I think S6 Spuffy was all about Buffy trying to be as degrading to herself as she could. Because she didn't believe she WAS truly human, so what was the point of being 'pure'?

I completely agree. And please can you post in the Spuffy shippers club because I've had one member state that you can't be a Spuffy fan if you see the ship in this way; it'd be great to prove them wrong.

In S6, I would agree. But I don't personally think S6 Spuffy is where the real 'love' in the ship entered...it entered in S7 once Spike got his soul and could FINALLY comprehend what love is.

I don't entirley view s7 as Spuffy though, s6 was when the relationship actually kind of existed. In s7 Buffy actually has attraction to Wood, thinking she liked him. Buffy also asks Spike if it has to mean anything when they sleep next to eachother- and apart from that they aren't in anyway in a relationship, more than a friendship than anything else.

Again, Spike was a soulless monster...so he's twisted and doing what came naturally...I'm not making excuses for him, just stating a fact...

A fact many Spuffy shippers fail to see. You'll notice lots of my posts are directed in a way that I'm trying to show people how bad he was because lots of members I come across believe he is a good vampire, or is capable of the kind of love Angel or Riley was. It may seem like I don't understand Spike is evil, but I do and that's why I hate the relationship- because it is twisted and sick and damaging to my fave character.

The real Spuffy ship began in Lessons. Their past sexcapades added a history, obviously, and of course being a Spuffy fan I enjoyed S6 to an extent, but the beauty of the ship is in Spike's redemption. Because he was so horrified with himself for the AR - which being soulless and conscience-less is a feat in itself - he seeks out his soul. On his own. Not understanding the full consequences of that at the time. Once he has his soul, everything changes. HE realizes how he treated Buffy and how horrible and disgusting it was...yet he tries to make amends all through S7. And at the end he sacrifices his life for her and the world...that's love. To lay your life down for others. And even into Ats, he loved Buffy enough to realize he wasn't right for her, to stay away.

Well as you state below, Angel and Angelus are two different things as are soulless and soulful Spike. Therefore Buffy is engaging in a relationship with a different vampire in s7 than she was in s6, yet people act as if they are the same person.

People want to criticize Spike's treatment of Buffy in S6 like they would if he had a soul. But what everyone fails to realize or ignore is the fact that he didn't.

I think more commonly they ignore he doesn't have a soul and try and make him more like Angel. Many Spuffy shippers say Spike did no wrong, that Buffy used him he was a victim and that he respected and loved her. He didn't, he was evil.

Angelus didn't treat Buffy any better - in fact MUCH worse than Spike. But everyone accepts that Angel and Angelus are two different people...so are Spike & Soulful!Spike. I don't think it's fair to base hate of a ship solely on S6...of course that's your right... but S7 shows a much better and healthy relationship based on respect, trust, and forgiveness. Which if Buffy can forgive Spike for what he did to HER, then I think we can cut him some slack as well.

I agree. They should be regarded as two different people which is why I don't view Spuffy s7 as the same Spuffy in s6. Just like I would view a Buffy/Angelus relationship as an entirley different thing to Bangel.

Ok, don't beat me to death with a shovel now...

I actually like talking to Spuffy fans like you, basically we have all the same views except for the fan one of us likes the ship and the other hates it.

[KingofCretins What? Find all posts View Profile Close KingofCretins]

Spike with and without his soul is never treated as a metaphysically separate entity the way that Angel is -- that's one of the biggest double standards in the fandom, especially since "Spuffy" is treated as inclusive of Season 7, after he got his soul.

Somehow some fans do see it as mushy, I could never see why The whole point of Spuffy was to be anything but mushy and yet they call themselves fans but can't bring to see the relationship as what it was meant to be. As for liking a ship based on your character, well I don't see why this happens. My fave is Buffy but I don't automatically like any relationship she is in, in fact I like her best alone. But I guess that's just me.

Overall, I like Spike pretty well. But I don't like Spuffy at all.

[vampmogs Slayer Supporter Find all posts View Profile Close vampmogs]

Spike with and without his soul is never treated as a metaphysically separate entity the way that Angel is -- that's one of the biggest double standards in the fandom, especially since "Spuffy" is treated as inclusive of Season 7, after he got his soul.

In no way intending to insult the intelligence of the Buffyverse fanbase but it boils down to the name. It is so much easier to have two distinctive entities when their names are different than it is when the entity keeps his name. And as you said, Spuffy is treated as inclusive of season 7 which is something I don't agree with, and through Buffy's actions it doesn't appear she views it like this as well. Buffy's behaviour is distinctively different to Spike after learning he got his soul, and whilst people ultimately assume she forgave Spike for the AR I do not, after all she wasn't with the same monster who had done that. If she was then she would have treated him throughout the season the same way she did in Beneath You until she realised he now had a soul. IMO Buffy views the Spike situation the same way she viewed the Angel/Angelus calamity.

Overall, I like Spike pretty well. But I don't like Spuffy at all.

Overall, Spuffy ruined Spike's character for me. I didn't like how pathetic he became, I think he lost his charming qualities which I found great to watch. It wasn't a matter of me hating Spuffy because I hated Spike, my hate of Spuffy made me dislike Spike.

[ykickamoocow Hellmouth Tourist Find all posts View Profile Close ykickamoocow]

Overall, Spuffy ruined Spike's character for me. I didn't like how pathetic he became, I think he lost his charming qualities which I found great to watch. It wasn't a matter of me hating Spuffy because I hated Spike, my hate of Spuffy made me dislike Spike.

Agreed. I actually like Spike in season 5 and felt his character was very well used. Spike was a far better recuring character (like he was seasons 2 to 5) than he was a main character (like in seasons 6 and 7). He got way to much air time in the last 2 seasons.