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It's been asked before but - Joss or Buffy?

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  • It's been asked before but - Joss or Buffy?

    At the last forum this question was asked awhile back, but I thought I would bring it up again out of curiosity, and because I know some people on this forum haven't even seen Angel (the horror!! if you're one of these people, please explain ).

    Would you say you are more of a Joss fan or just a Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan? Have you seen Angel? Firefly and Serenity? Have you read Sugarshock!? Do you plan on watching and/or reading any of Joss's non-Buffy related projects? Or is it all about the Buffster for you and that's it?

    And for the hardcore Joss fans, is there anything he's done you haven't liked? What have you liked the best?

    Me, I Joss in just about everything he does. I'll be watching Dollhouse or Goners or whatever it is he plans on doing next. Sugarshock! rocks my socks, and I buy every Buffy season 8 comic and plan on doing the same with Angel (even though he's not the writer - it IS canon though and he oversees the project). My favorite thing he's done is always between Angel the Series and Firefly - I change my mind all the time (at the moment it's Angel though). My least favorite is Serenity even though I enjoyed it, it just didn't have the same impact as Firefly did for me.

    I don't think he's perfect though, like some, and there are things he consistently does (hint: one of those things was in the Serenity movie) that bug me and piss me off. I love the characters and the worlds he creates though, along with the relationships and the awesome, awesome dialog - which makes up for everything else.

    If you've only seen Buffy, you're missing out in my opinion.
    No power in the 'verse can stop me.

  • #2
    I'm a Joss fan, but I spend more time fascinated by the Buffyverse than his other work. Firefly/Serenity is the best stuff, but there's just not any new content or enough development to really get drawn into it. Maybe when the MMO comes out.

    I was very enthusiastic when he was involved with Wonder Woman.

    Sugarshock was cute, but pretty much just eye candy to me, there wasn't part of me saying "this has to be a monthly comic!"

    I'll pretty much see any of his work on spec. Dollhouse sounds genuinely intriguing, so I'm definitely going to want to get into that.
    Banner by LRae12


    • #3
      I think I'm more of a fan of Joss. It started with Buffy, but if I really like a show, I usually watch anything else the creator does. Like, I was a huge fan of The OC, it's my favorite show of all time, and when Josh Schwartz began doing Chuck and Gossip Girl I started watching them, at least watching the pilots, but I've grown to love both shows.

      I've also watched mostly all of ANGEL, but there's a few episodes I've missed.

      I've seen, and loved, Serenity. I personally thought it was better than Star Wars, but I'm not a huge Star Wars fan to begin with. I haven't seen Firefly, but I think I may go buy it this week since it's only $15.00 at Target.

      I've read the 'Gifted' arc of Joss's Astonishing X-Men. I really liked it, but since comics are hard to find where I live, I can't find them.

      Plus, he wrote some of the screenplay for Toy Story, which I consider the greatest animated movie of all time.

      I'll probably watch Dollhouse, it sounds interesting enough, but if I don't like it, I'm not going to force myself to watch it, but it's doubtful I won't not like it.


      • #4
        I'd say I'm more of a Joss fan because I love Angel and Buffy the same, mostly. Firefly and Serenity are brilliant, as well.

        I like his original work more, though. Like, he was doing Wonder Woman. I would not have seen it, because it's not his original work. I love his stories and writing, but the stories are what, first, draw me in. Then, I admire his writing.

        So, Joss....when it's original.


        • #5
          I'm generally a Joss fan seeing as I like Serenity and Firefly. Angel... from what I've seen, it's not as good as Buffy.

          I'm having some trouble deciding whether Firefly or Buffy is better, but Serenity is a cut above both - best movie I've ever seen. It showed Joss going 100% with some incredibly smart writing.

          Sugarshock is pretty good with some classic Joss moments, but it's a bit too random to go any further than it did.
          Buffy: It sounds like it's difficult for you. Maybe your sister makes it hard for you to establish your own identity. You said she's controlling, she doesn't let you make your own decisions -
          Dawn: Yeah, and she borrows my clothes without asking.


          • #6
            Sorry, but I'm clueless. What is Sugarshock? What's it about? A movie? Comic? TV? Sorry, I'm clueless.


            • #7
              I'm probably in the minority here, but I'm more of a buffy fan. I was never(and still really aren't) much of a scifi or horror fan. I watched Angel early on during its first 2 seasons, but then kinda lost interest and only watched it when there was an interesting guest star(like Drusilla or Faith). I've tried to watch Serenity, but couldn't really get into it, I think mainly because I'm just not really into Scifi. But I'm giving it another shot, actually borrowed my friends DVD and am gonna try to watch it again. And the Buffy season #8comics are the first comic books I've ever bought in my life.

              The thing that hooked me on buffy was that 1. It captured the experience of high school very well, 2. The writing was very clever and funny, 3. It was like nothing else on TV as it could combine comedy, horror, action and drama all in the same episode and 4. Atleast early-on, I thought Sarah was hot(season 1 Sarah, before she died her hair and got a little too skinny).

              I still consider myself a Joss fan, and am excited about Dollhouse. Also I enjoyed atleast some aspects of Angel and am giving Serenity another shot. Overall though, outside of Buffy, I've never been much of a SciFi/horror fan.


              • #8
                ats is my favorite show ever (way more than btvs--though i love it, too--especially the first 3 seasons).

                i fizzled with my interest at the 8th episode of firefly, but watched bits of other episodes that i found interesting--i found the show was better towards the beginning with a 'meh' middle section. the show got a bit dull (sorry) at times, whereas i've never found a single episode of btvs or ats to be without heart. the problem with firefly is good chunks of episodes don't really have much of a direction at all... whereas there isn't a single episode of btvs or ats that don't have something going on (except for "the body", which coincidently is my least favorite episode). problem was, there was a lot of firefly that was like "the body". love river, and she was underused in the show. joss saw his mistake and made her the focus of the movie.

                honestly, the serenity movie was far closer to btvs and ats than firefly ever was. it seemed like joss took his firefly cast and put a btvs/ats-like arc behind it (river and the reavers were really the only things from the series that lived up to the btvs/ats standards, imo--sure you've got the fred/willow clone in kaylee and the poor man's han solo in mal, and the fact that river has a strong precedent in drusilla... but it was a more epic story). the film isn't really much like the show. the film is what the show should have been.

                as for all the btvs-only people who have this bizarre will-not-watch-angel attitude... it's like only watching half a movie. btvs without ats is only half a story. ats without btvs is only half a story.

                ats had better main characters (angel and wesley in particular), much better consistency in writing and ats had more in common with the first 3 seasons of btvs than the last 4 seasons of btvs did. it wasn't ats who had to take off in a different direction with a new catalyst. ats actually inherited the main plot catalyst from btvs. btvs was the one which had to overhaul the show and find a new plot catalyst (which spike filled in with to replace angel). angel basically just carried on from the main story of those first 3 seasons of btvs--as he was the main story.

                the writing on ats was just so much more epic, deeper, less goofy (but i find dry wit funnier) and just generally better storylines and a big bad story that was just way above and beyond anything btvs ever attempted (wolfram & hart). sure, angelus in season 2 is the quintessential villain, but in many ways it's that inner angelus inside angel that makes for angel's own worst enemy. the characters and mythology are richer in ats. the shades of gray are more pronounced and dealt with more.

                btvs' characters have a lot of superiority complexes despite the show being built on a group of outcasts. ats' characters were and remained true outcasts and didn't have any superiority complexes at all... in fact, angel is more likely to put himself down and deal with human fallible morality and the fight for that flawed humanity to continue. buffy's treatment of jonathan is a prime example of superiority complexes within the scoobies. anya and spike were two of the only ones that didn't--and they were external members that didn't belong in the main clubhouse. which is why you have james marsters saying he felt that spike was more accepted in the ats cast. faith certainly was.

                in fact, faith is probably the character you can tell the most about btvs vs. ats through. look at angel's way of helping faith find redemption and relating his own plight to hers vs. buffy's use of her as a walking weapon she doesn't particularly like. faith did far worse to angel and wesley than she ever did to buffy, but faith still got more respect from the ats characters.

                as for dollhouse--i definitely plan to check it out. especially for eliza dushku and the promise of a psychological character study.

                "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."


                • #9
                  I was a BtVS fan first, and then was introduced to AtS. Watched some of it but discounted it. Then once I'd seen all of BtVS (i.e. when it had ended) I wanted more Buffyverse, so relooked at AtS and loved it - to the point that I prefer that now.

                  Once I saw all of AtS, I was sad that there was no-more but still desperately craved the verse. That's when I found out about Firefly and Serenity, and although I was expecting it to be rubbish (don't like sci-fi or westerns) I enjoyed it immensely.

                  Now I'm buying comics for the first time ever!

                  For me the characters that Joss created are the most important things. It's not the horror or the sci-fi that makes me watch them, it's their personalities and humanity. Oh and the witty dialogue. I found out way after getting into BtVS and AtS that two (TWO!) of my favourite movies were written in part but Joss (Toy Story and Speed) and what I had loved about them was always the dialogue. So basically it's Joss all the way.

                  In my eyes the man is a god!

                  Peter Capaldi is the 12th Doctor


                  • #10
                    I'm a Joss fan. There's not much else that really interests me as much as his worlds, I don't think I've been obssesed by any other tv shows.. maybe Summer Heights High.
                    I was just a Buffyverse fan, but the shows ended so I got into Firefly and anything else he's done... just about. Favourite stuff is Buffy.. but it might be Firefly if there was more of it, there's just so much good stuff in lota Buffy episodes to choose from.

                    Sorry, but I'm clueless. What is Sugarshock? What's it about? A movie? Comic? TV?
                    Sugar Shock
                    Last edited by alexa; 13-11-07, 10:17 AM.


                    • #11
                      My favourite work of his Btvs but I am a Joss fan, I watch and read most of his things because it is Joss. It took me a while to get motivated to watch 'Firefly' however, but after I went and saw 'Serenity' that quickly changed. Admittedly, I haven't read any of his work on Xmen or Runaways but plan to watch his episodes of 'The Office,' and of course am almost as addicted to Ats as I am Btvs.

                      Where Joss goes I usually follow.

                      ~ Banner by Nina ~


                      • #12
                        I'm definetly a Buffyverse than Jossverse.. although I enjoy the shows because of how good of a writer Joss is. I am going to watch Dollhouse, and I am trying to get into the Runaways.. at least his arc.

                        -Sig by BlasterBoy-


                        • #13
                          I was introduced to the Buffyverse by watching Angel on tv after the series had ended. When I realized I was totally into the magic realism, the world of vampires, demons, slayers, watchers, and all the fascinating characters, I bought the DVD's. After I had watched that series several times, I gulped a few times and bought Buffy on DVD. I still re-watch several episodes a week Joss stated that he wanted to create a series that people would truly resonate to, and it's absolutely been done.


                          • #14
                            I think I?m a Joss fan. I love Buffy, really love it and the more I saw, the more I loved it and that happens to me, still today. Buffy is an amazing show and Joss Whedon is just awesome. Buffy was the first thing I saw, but then I remember I saw Firefly and was completely blown away by it. Another amazing show, then I started Angel ( I haven?t finished yet) but again, wow! Joss is amazing and he continues to surprise me, now with Serenity, a movie that I love beyond reason. He just continues to amaze me and now, I just can?t wait for more material of his to show up.
                            So, I started being only a Buffy fan but over time, I?ve become a Joss fan.


                            • #15
                              I am, above all, a Joss Whedon fan. BtVS was the first of his works that I came to love, but what it did was open up the gateway to the WWW. The wonderful world of Whedon.

                              "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Angel" are pretty much ties for me. They both had their stronger points and weaker points, but in the end they come out equal. I have never seen--and I doubt I ever will--television as good as these two series offered us.

                              "Firefly" was great. Was it on the same level as the Buffyverse? Certainly not. However, it is something special in its own right. Great stories, great acting, and a strong subtle arc throughout the season. However, I can't see how it could be compared to Buffy or Angel.

                              "Serenity" was good. I liked it a lot, but it didn't feel as strong as "Firefly" was. A lot needed to be done, and I did feel that some time was wasted. However, it was overall a wonderful movie.

                              "Astonishing X-Men" is the most uneven of all Joss's work. The "Gifted" arc was great, "Dangerous" was terrible by any standards, and "Torn" (which I am currently reading) starts off slow but then becomes fantastic. Even though it was hit and miss, this series only made my Whedony love more solid.

                              "Sugarshock" was Joss at his worst. The whole time, it had a very "Are you seriously putting this out?" vibe to it that really threw me off. It was unreadable. This is, of course, the exception. I feel horrible to even talk about the comic like that, but it's true. Joss can--and has--done literally a million times better.

                              I haven't read his "Runaways" arc yet, but if it's anything as good as BKV's groundbreaking run, I know I'll love it.

                              Yeah. Whedon fan here.
                              Last edited by patxshand; 18-12-07, 07:50 AM. Reason: added text


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by patxshand View Post
                                "Sugarshock" was Joss at his worst. The whole time, it had a very "Are you seriously putting this out?" vibe to it that really threw me off. It was unreadable. This is, of course, the exception. I feel horrible to even talk about the comic like that, but it's true. Joss can--and has--done literally a million times better.
                                Nice to see you have joined us on BuffyForums Pat

                                I agree with you on 'Sugarshock.' Usually I pretty much fall in love with any of Joss works, I mean I'm a fan as far back as 'Toy Story' but this comic left my feeling pretty disappointed. Nothing about it appealed to me whatsoever.

                                ~ Banner by Nina ~


                                • #17
                                  Awww.'s funny! It puts a big goofy grin on my face every time I read it.
                                  No power in the 'verse can stop me.


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by ShinyFirefly View Post
                                    Awww.'s funny! It puts a big goofy grin on my face every time I read it.
                                    I'm sure your not alone, I'm probably in the minority of people who didn't like it I have no problem with Joss creating something that is meant to be funny that isn't the problem for me, the problem is *I* didn't find it funny

                                    But I'm glad you did, I wish I could say the same! Believe me I'd love to like it, just this one didn't "click" for me

                                    ~ Banner by Nina ~


                                    • #19
                                      Well, at first I thought I was more of a 'Buffy' fan than a Joss fan, but then I found out that he was involved in two of my favorite movies. And in hindsight, there are lines in those two movies that made me giggle myself silly which would not be out of place in the tv series he's done. So I'm not entirely sure yet.
                                      "And remember, we keep our supraesophageal ganglion to ourselves. That means you Jimmy!"

                                      Mr Ray, 'Finding Nemo'