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  • Who saved the world the most?

    I'm trying to work out all the times a character has saved the world. I was inspired to post this thread based on a discussion Angel and Spike have in "The Girl in Question". There's a lot of stuff I'm not sure about, so if you can see any corrections or mistakes in my calculations please say so.




    BTVS: Season one

    "Welcome to the Hellmouth": Buffy saves the world (staking Luke)

    "Prophecy Girl": Buffy saves the world (killing the Master)



    BTVS: Season two

    "Becoming: Part two": Buffy saves the world (sending Angel to Hell)



    BTVS: Season three


    Does "Revelations" count? How powerful was the glove that Ms. Post was trying to steal? Didn't it have the power of a god or something? I'm undecided on this one.

    In "The Wish", Giles sets the universe right. I'm willing to give him a point for this, seeing as how later on he eliminates the threat of Glory as well. (Giles smashed Anyanka's amulet)

    In "The Zeppo", the entire scooby gang (sans Oz and Cordy) saves the world. I'll give the point to Buffy seeing as how she presumably led the attack. Angel, Willow and Giles all get partial points. As heroic as Xander was, I'm hesitant to give him a point here. The scoobies defeated the Hellmouth Spawn without his assistance, Xander saved thier lives by getting the bomb shut down. The thing is though, even without Xander the world would still have been saved -the bomb would have killed the Old One along with the scoobies. (the Hellmouth Spawn was trying to open the Hellmouth)

    "Graduation Day: part two": Was the world really at stake here? I'm undecided on this one.




    BTVS Season Four

    "Doomed" Buffy saves the world (prevents the demon from sacrificing itself to the Hellmouth)

    "Primeval": Buffy saves the world by deafeating Adam (Willow, Xander and Giles get partial credit). I have no trouble believing that Adam and his army of cyborg demons could potentially take over the world.


    ATS Season One
    I don't think there was any apocalypse in the first season of Angel.



    BTVS Season Five

    "The Gift" is the only instance I can think of where a full blown apocalypse was prevented, and the credit for this goes to Buffy. (she jumped into the vortex, sacrificing her life to close it)


    ATS Season Two

    "Happy Anniversary" Angel saves the world by preventing that guy from freezing time.



    BTVS Season Six

    "Grave" is the only instance I can think of where the world was saved, and that point goes to Xander. (talked Willow out of destroying the world)


    ATS Season three

    Again, I don't think there was an apocalypse in this season



    BTVS Season Seven

    "Chosen" Everyone pitches in to save the world. The "point" goes to Spike.



    ATS Season Four

    "Home" Angel saves the world from Jasmine's thrall

    "Salvage" Angelus kills the Beast who had blacked out New York. If I remember correctly, the Beast could have blacked out the entire world if given enough time.


    ATS Season Five

    "Convition" Gunn saves LA by manipulating the court into a mistrial, thereby preventing the guy from releasing the virus from his kid.

    "The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco" (does this count? I recall that the demon was trying to become the sun god or something like that?)

    "Smile Time" Not exactly an apocalypse, but Wesley and Fred get major freaking credit for destroying the puppet egg. That egg was going to drain almost all the children in LA.

    "Time Bomb" Wesley saves LA by draining Illyria's power. This combined with his other efforts deserves a "saved the world point."

    "Not Fade Away": The entire fang gang (led by Angel) save the world by releasing it from the grip of the Senior Partners.

    Canon Comics

    "The Chain" I'm not sure exactly what's at stake here. Is it a Hellmouth? Nonetheless, Willow deserves a point for activating all those potential slayers.

    "Fray", Meleka Fray saves the world
    Vampire in Rug
    Arbiter of Canon
    Last edited by Vampire in Rug; 28-10-07, 01:01 PM.

  • #2
    Okay, I've talleyed up the points. Here are my results for who has prevented the most apocalypses. I've only used points that I'm sure on, the instances where I'm not sure I havn't counted.


    Buffy - saved the world seven times.

    Angel -saved the world four times.

    Giles -saved the world once.

    Xander -saved the world once.

    Willow -saved the world once.

    Spike -saved the world once.

    Wesley -saved the world once.

    Gunn -(arguably) saved the world once.

    Fray -saved the world once.




    Anything I missed?

    Comment


    • #3
      holtz arguably saved the world when sahjhan threatened to have the portal to quar'toth suck in the entire world. he jumped in with baby connor when sahjhan threatened with the portal.

      and technically connor killed jasmine who still had the power to wipe out the entire human species, despite angel ruining her brainwash world domination scheme. so, angel destroyed her first apocalypse plan and connor destroyed the other.

      and spike wouldn't have saved the world without angel, lilah and possibly eve and lindsey (the amulet). technically, that was a group effort (courtesy of people who wanted to ruin angel's day and/or prevent w&h from missing out on its apocalypse).
      NileQT87
      The Dark Avenger
      Last edited by NileQT87; 28-10-07, 04:50 PM.

      "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
      "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

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      • #4
        Originally posted by NileQT87 View Post
        and spike wouldn't have saved the world without angel, lilah and possibly eve and lindsey (the amulet). technically, that was a group effort (courtesy of people who wanted to ruin angel's day and/or prevent w&h from missing out on its apocalypse).
        Well then, technically, couldn't we say that Xander also saved the world in Prophecy Girl by waking up Buffy, and that the monks of Buffy s5 saved the world by giving Dawn the same blood as Buffy, and that Buffy's mom saved the world by driving Angel away from Buffy just in time for him to save the world from all those apocalypses springing up in LA...?

        Because they did. So if we count the butterfly effect, ...someone else do the math.
        Buffy: It sounds like it's difficult for you. Maybe your sister makes it hard for you to establish your own identity. You said she's controlling, she doesn't let you make your own decisions -
        Dawn: Yeah, and she borrows my clothes without asking.

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        • #5
          Buffy saved the World the most. I think Buffy saved the World in season 7, rather than Spike. Angel brought the amulet, Spike wore it, if nothing else they share equal dibs on helping Buffy get it done by sharing her power. Willow also played a small part in that endeavor, as did Giles, Faith, Xander, Anya and Wood.
          Rather than credit Spike with the trophy, I'd still give it to Buffy, as it was her power to share, her idea to do it and her belief in Angel to use the amulet, then trust in Spike to wear it.

          Whosoever Shall Call Upon the Name of the Lord Shall Be Saved!

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          • #6
            No, sorry season seven Spike. He died saving all the scoobies arses, as with just Buffy's daft plan they would have all been dead.

            But then as I'm not a big fan of the lapse of logic that made up this episode, I'd say it was a 'group effort' in madness really, with one wee vamp 'frying' as a result of it.
            sueworld
            Banned
            Last edited by sueworld; 28-10-07, 07:04 PM.

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            • #7
              Well, Joss told James "dude, you save the world in this one!" so he obviously thought the point goes to Spike.

              (set made by Francy for me)

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              • #8
                Yes, I agree, Season Seven goes to Spike. But other than that, Buffy saved the world the most times.

                Comment


                • #9
                  doyle saved everyone with humanity from getting melted in "hero". angel stopped the scourge from taking him and buffy out of the battle in "i will remember you". another one for buffy when she killed the judge (who would eventually be able to incinerate humanity with a look). angelus killed the beast, which kept the sun from spreading beyond los angeles and turning the world into a demonic free-for-all. and "not fade away" is definitely angel's plan--the others contributed, but he was the one that made the key moves and planning behind it.
                  NileQT87
                  The Dark Avenger
                  Last edited by NileQT87; 28-10-07, 11:46 PM.

                  "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                  "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by cheryl4ba View Post
                    Buffy saved the World the most. I think Buffy saved the World in season 7, rather than Spike. Angel brought the amulet, Spike wore it, if nothing else they share equal dibs on helping Buffy get it done by sharing her power. Willow also played a small part in that endeavor, as did Giles, Faith, Xander, Anya and Wood.
                    Rather than credit Spike with the trophy, I'd still give it to Buffy, as it was her power to share, her idea to do it and her belief in Angel to use the amulet, then trust in Spike to wear it.
                    Angel didn't even know it was. He brought it, yes, but I think actually sacrificing your life trumps delivering a trinket that was handed to you by W & H anyway. And Spike immediately implied that he should be the one to wear it when Buffy returned home, so he was not only willing, but insisting. I know that Buffy handing him the amulet was supposed to be a big deal, but seriously, who else was she going to give it to? If it was meant for Angel (as far as they knew), then Spike really is the logical choice.

                    Mind you, with Spike only having a soul for a few years yet, Buffy and Angel have both achieved greater heroism than he has, but I dunno, there might be a bias if you don't credit him with saving the world in Chosen. It appears like you're pointlessly denying his shining moment. It was just as good as Xander's, if not better because he gave up his life to presumably spend eternity in Hell.

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                    • #11
                      Kinda off topic here but why would you think Spike would spend eternity in Hell? Spike the demon is Hellbound, Spike the man with a soul is an entirely different thing, imo.

                      Anya also died in the fight, where does she fall in the "saving the world" category? I don't hold Spike's sacrifice anywhere near that of Xander in season 6. Xander saved the World all by himself, all it took was his unconditional love for Willow. That's just me.
                      Don't get me wrong, I think Spike did his part but so did everybody else, including Angel who brought the amulet over to Buffy.

                      Whosoever Shall Call Upon the Name of the Lord Shall Be Saved!

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                      • #12
                        I don't hold Spike's sacrifice anywhere near that of Xander in season 6.
                        So frying is the same as hugging Willow then?

                        Somehow I don't quite see it as the same thing.

                        Also it's the 'road to Hell' in starting to compare who did what, as they all had their parts to play, but after saying that some sacrificed more then others to get the job done, and Spike was one such character in season seven I believe.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by cheryl4ba View Post
                          Kinda off topic here but why would you think Spike would spend eternity in Hell? Spike the demon is Hellbound, Spike the man with a soul is an entirely different thing, imo.
                          I think part of the whole point of the Angel series is that he's still damned, so I think Spike is, too. At least right now.

                          Anya also died in the fight, where does she fall in the "saving the world" category?
                          ... What? Anya's death didn't kill thousands of ubervamps. That's just an odd comparison. Do you have like some sort of instinctive dislike towards Spike that you would actually credit both Anya and Spike's deaths equally in the "saved the world" department? Dying heroically and dying heroically while saving the day are two entirely different things.

                          I don't hold Spike's sacrifice anywhere near that of Xander in season 6. Xander saved the World all by himself, all it took was his unconditional love for Willow. That's just me.
                          And all it took for Spike was him dying, and based on his knowledge at the time, not ever coming back. He did so for no real reward, seeing as how he apparently didn't even believe Buffy loved him. Unless you're calling the quality of his character while ensouled into question also.

                          Don't get me wrong, I think Spike did his part but so did everybody else, including Angel who brought the amulet over to Buffy.
                          Once again, Angel was just handed that thing almost randomly, and it is just ridiculous that you would give him the same amount of credit in this particular scenario as Spike. Spike unselfishly died to destroy Sunnydale's Hellmouth, and while Angel and Buffy would have done the same thing in his position, it was him who did it; thusly, he saved the world. Don't see how any of that is refutable.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by sueworld View Post
                            So frying is the same as hugging Willow then?

                            Somehow I don't quite see it as the same thing.
                            Why not? They both saved the world in their own way, just because Xander didn't decide to off himself in the process doesn't mean it wasn't equally as good. Remember that Spike didn't have to die, he chose to die. As Buffy began to say "You could still..". Spike could have taken off the amulet after the sunlight dusted all the ubervamps but he wanted to go down with it, it doesn't make him any less heroic than Xander in 'Grave' but it certainly doesn't make him any more heroic.

                            And whilst Spike died saving the world, Xander was equally as prepared to take Willow's fury without the aid of any super powers.

                            ~ Banner by Nina ~

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                            • #15
                              Err, thats what I said love if you read my post properly. Both were heroic in there own way, but it's frankly ridiculous to say Spikes sacrifice was any less.

                              But at the end of the day is he actually died. Xander did not, and anyway we're not talking about season 6, but season seven. I think Sid has managed to express very nicely my view on the matter too.
                              sueworld
                              Banned
                              Last edited by sueworld; 29-10-07, 05:48 AM.

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by vampmogs View Post
                                Spike could have taken off the amulet after the sunlight dusted all the ubervamps but he wanted to go down with it, it doesn't make him any less heroic than Xander in 'Grave' but it certainly doesn't make him any more heroic.
                                I think the way it was presented, we were led to believe that Spike had to stay there in order for the amulet to fully run its course. It wouldn't fit if that weren't the case, since instead of dying to save the world, it'd mean he died for no reason other than to be poetic or some crap like that . When Buffy said, "you can still..." I think it was wishful thinking, and Spike had the right idea. The way the whole thing went down and the way it's referenced in the final season of Angel, I'm thinking that Spike's death was part of the deal.

                                And yeah, I agree that Xander's moment in the world saving sun was just as good. I said "equal if not better" in regards to Spike to stress the point, but Xander got the job done just as successfully.

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by NileQT87 View Post
                                  angel stopped the scourge from taking him and buffy out of the battle in "i will remember you".
                                  What are you talking about? The scourge wasn't in I Will Remember You, did you mean the Moira demon?

                                  And Vampire in Rug, I don't think CTONC counts as "saving the world"--I mean, if a bunch of luchadores could take that guy he couldn't have been that threatening to the world, lol! Plus by that line of thinking Angel Investigations saves the world in Disharmony from that vamp cult that was ready to turn everyone into vampires or food--and this list goes on. Same goes for Wes and Fred in Smile Time, I don't think that really counts either....

                                  So yeah, in short though Buffy probably saved the world the most--like it said on her gravestone!
                                  Promise that you'll return to me.

                                  icon by sireesanswar

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                                  • #18
                                    Yeah I think I'm in the camp of every action having it's own inherent value. I think comparing them undermines them. Angel and Spike's conversation was supposed to be petty and humorous and it goes against what Angel truly believes anyway: that every act of kindness has it's own worth (i.e. no scoreboard) and intention is just as important even if you don't appear to make a difference.

                                    I don't look at it like a scoreboard and I doubt Buffy and Angel et al do either.

                                    Doyle:...You gotta save all the helpless types around here and now you've got to fight the apocalypse as well?"

                                    Angel gets up: "It's all the same thing. Fight the good fight - whichever way you can."

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                                    • #19
                                      I think there were far fewer 'save the world' level crises on Buffy and Angel than people figure instinctively.

                                      Here's my count --

                                      Season 1 -- "The Harvest" and "Prophecy Girl", both the same exact basic disaster, releasing the Master and opening the Hellmouth in doing so.

                                      Season 2 -- "Becoming", with the awakening of Acathla.

                                      Season 3 -- "The Zeppo", with whatever Hellmouth opening attempt was going on there.

                                      Season 4 -- "Doomed", with whatever Hellmouth opening attempt was going on *there*.

                                      Season 5 -- "The Gift", Glory's attempt to go home.

                                      Season 6 -- "Grave", Willow trying to destroy the world

                                      Season 7 -- "Chosen", the First preparing to overrun the planet.

                                      I don't think other things like the Mayor's ascension or Adam's army rise to that level. Adam's army is basically the same idea as the First's plan, but would have taken so much longer and been so much more resistable, it lacks that sense that the entire world is screwed if they lose.

                                      Likewise, the only ones I recognize from Angel are "Happy Anniversary" and "Home". The threat of the Beast was part and parcel of Jasmine's plan, so I can't give 2 for 1 on that. There was no imminent danger to the whole of the world anywhere else in that series.
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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by NileQT87 View Post
                                        holtz arguably saved the world when sahjhan threatened to have the portal to quar'toth suck in the entire world. he jumped in with baby connor when sahjhan threatened with the portal.
                                        Could Sajahn's portal enveloped the entire planet? I doubt he would be able to do that. I got the impression that he could only widen the portal to suck in everyone in his immediate vicinity.

                                        and technically connor killed jasmine who still had the power to wipe out the entire human species, despite angel ruining her brainwash world domination scheme. so, angel destroyed her first apocalypse plan and connor destroyed the other.
                                        Jasmine's "apocalypse" was her controlling the minds of everyone on earth, something which Angel prevented. Sure Conner killed her, but I don't think that counts as "saving the world". I don't think she was that big of a threat anymore.

                                        and spike wouldn't have saved the world without angel, lilah and possibly eve and lindsey (the amulet). technically, that was a group effort (courtesy of people who wanted to ruin angel's day and/or prevent w&h from missing out on its apocalypse).
                                        Well, as others have pointed out, Buffy wouldn't have saved the world if Xander hadn't given her CPR. Xander would never have given her CPR if his parents never concieved him. If Mary Sue hadn't been killed offscreen in, say, 1973by random vampire #12, Xander's father may have married her instead of Xander's mother. If random vampire #12 hadn't been spared by the slayer of his time... see where I'm going with this? It's a never ending cycle. Every action has repucussions. I'm awarding the "points" to the person who actually performs the "action" that saves the world, ie. Buffy staking the Master or Spike chosing to die in the Hellmouth.

                                        Well then, technically, couldn't we say that Xander also saved the world in Prophecy Girl by waking up Buffy, and that the monks of Buffy s5 saved the world by giving Dawn the same blood as Buffy, and that Buffy's mom saved the world by driving Angel away from Buffy just in time for him to save the world from all those apocalypses springing up in LA...?

                                        Because they did. So if we count the butterfly effect, ...someone else do the math.
                                        Exactly. Do Hank and Joyce get points for concieving Buffy? What about her grandparents? It gets ridiculous if you try to count anyone who was indirectly involved in every way.

                                        I think Buffy saved the World in season 7, rather than Spike. Angel brought the amulet, Spike wore it, if nothing else they share equal dibs on helping Buffy get it done by sharing her power. Willow also played a small part in that endeavor, as did Giles, Faith, Xander, Anya and Wood.
                                        Rather than credit Spike with the trophy, I'd still give it to Buffy, as it was her power to share, her idea to do it and her belief in Angel to use the amulet, then trust in Spike to wear it.
                                        No way. A handful of slayers was certainly not enough to defeat thousands upon thousands of Turok Han. And even if by some miralce, Buffy and the junior slayers did have the potential to kill all those ubervamps... that's not what happened. Spike killed them all so the point goes to him. Not only did Spike destroy the First's army, but by sacrificing his life, he colapsed the Hellmouth forever, which is a pretty big deal. He prevented any future Sunnydale Apocalypses which yes, would have almost certainly happened. The Season Seven trophy goes to Spike.

                                        Anyway, my whole intention with this thread was to have a bit of fun trying to create a tally, and a bit of discussion as to what does and doesn't count as an apocalypse. I don't want to diminish one character's sacrifice in comparison to another's.

                                        doyle saved everyone with humanity from getting melted in "hero". angel stopped the scourge from taking him and buffy out of the battle in "i will remember you". another one for buffy when she killed the judge (who would eventually be able to incinerate humanity with a look
                                        I wouldn't really count these as apocalypses. The machine only melted people in it's immediate vicinity. In "I Will Remember You", that was only a single demon (the Mohra Demon). And while the Judge might be able to kill an entire room full of people with a glance, I doubt he could do anything on an apocalyptic scale.

                                        Remember that Spike didn't have to die, he chose to die.
                                        I'm pretty sure the amulet would have stopped working the moment Spike took it off.

                                        [qoute]And Vampire in Rug, I don't think CTONC counts as "saving the world"--I mean, if a bunch of luchadores could take that guy he couldn't have been that threatening to the world, lol! Plus by that line of thinking Angel Investigations saves the world in Disharmony from that vamp cult that was ready to turn everyone into vampires or food--and this list goes on. Same goes for Wes and Fred in Smile Time, I don't think that really counts either....
                                        [/quote]

                                        Yeah, but that Aztec demon was after a talisman of some sort... I don't remember the episode too well, but didn't wouldn't the talisman have given the demon world destroying power or something? And Spike wasn't too concerned because he was still a ghost? That's the way I remember it, but I could be wrong. Yeah, I agree about Wes and Fred in Smile Time; it wasn't an apocalypse, but it was a larger than usual scale operation that I think can be combined with other huge deeds (like preventing Illyria from exploding and taking out California).


                                        I don't think other things like the Mayor's ascension or Adam's army rise to that level. Adam's army is basically the same idea as the First's plan, but would have taken so much longer and been so much more resistable, it lacks that sense that the entire world is screwed if they lose.
                                        I agree that the Mayor's Ascention doesn't count as an apocalypse. However, I believe that Adam's army of cyborgs would have been much tougher to defeat than the First's army of ubervamps. Human technology combined with demon strength and invulnrability? Plus the fact that Adam has so far been sucsessful in recruiting almost any other demon and vampire he's come across. Yeah it would have taken longer to make the army, but I can see it as being achievable. I believe on a one for one ratio, a single cyborg would be tougher than a single Turok Han.

                                        The threat of the Beast was part and parcel of Jasmine's plan, so I can't give 2 for 1 on that.
                                        I can see where you're coming from but I'm still undecided on this. Was the Beast a true worshiper of Jasmine, or was he being duped? I have no doubt that he would have loved to black out the entire world, but I doubt Jasmine would have allowed him. Nonetheless, Angelus killing the Beast certainly tossed a spanner into Jasmine's immediate plan. Not sure if it should count seeing as how Angelus probably wasn't trying to restore the sun.

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