Episode Battles. Explanation Style. BtVS vs. Ats Edition.

[Jenni Lou]

This is like the thread in the Buffy and Angel section, and someone mentioned to me how they would like to see a battle thread that incorporates Buffy and gel eps.

So this thread is much like the one in the game section where you take two episodes and the poster below you chooses which they like better.

However, the catch in this thread is that you must give at least a few sentences explaining why you feel the way you do. Posts do go toward your post count in here so there's no reason to spam. I think it will be a fun way to see how fellow members feel about certain kinds of eps.

So, to start:

Real Me vs. Disharmony

[basakbangel]

Perfect!! I was expecting that would happen soon I'll go with Real Me. I adore the begining of it where Giles tells somethings and Buffy tries to meditate.(You are the center. And within you, there is the core of your being ... of what you are. Find it ... breathe into it. Focus inward. Let the world fall away ... fall away ... fall away.... )That impressed me so much. In addition Harmony and her gang stuff was funny though nothing special.

I Will Remember You Vs. The Prom

[KingofCretins]

"The Prom".

As schmaltzy as "I Will Remember You" was, and as fondly remembered, it didn't have any lasting consequences for anyone but Angel, and, since it's never brought up again, how important could it be? Whereas "The Prom" tied up many conflicts, like Xander and Cordy, and also provided the definitive switch from Buffy as anonymous victim of her destiny to its beneficiary.

"Fool For Love" vs. "In the Dark"

[Cinderela]

This is an easy choice for me. Fool for Love - I've always been crazed to see historical flashbacks to see what Angel/Darla & Spike/Dru have been up to and been through in their long pasts. Also, for Buffy to admit that she needs ANYTHNG from Spike is lovely to see.

In the Dark does have Oz going for it , but, for me it just doesn't stand up to Fool For Love.

This isn't an error in the next match up, since Fool for Love was just in this one - but I've wondered for a long time how Angel and Buffy fans feel about the different perspectives on the same situation, so

Fool for Love VS Darla

[alexa]

Fool for Love purely because it's less dark then Darla, and full of Tales of the Slayers. Any opportunity to explore previous slayers is always interesting to me, plus it was great to find out Spike's past, he really deserved some exploration at that point. I also enjoy the scoobies eating chips in the graveyard while Riley is very macho for a change.

OooOo try this one on
Chosen vs Not Fade Away

[Veverka]

Okay, Kanga! Jumping right in there I see (great thread Jenni Lou!)

Damn... I almost don't know. I'm going to go with Not Fade Away... by a whisker... I just felt like it was a great round episode which got back to the core mission statement- we fight to show the world what good can be- and that yes, the team may well go down fighting, but that doesn't change the 'why we fight' of it.
Plus, there was a dragon, and that gets points.

Innocence v. Epiphany

[alexa]

Innocence, although I love Epiphany. Innocence has all the elements that make Buffy a great show, all in one episode. And hmm.. I just now realize that's why I like it so much. It's full of female empowerment, great jokes and brilliant drama.. plus rocket launcher "Say hi for me" "That was then, this is now" ..and when Buffy kicks Angelus in the groin "Give me time" "Let it burn" Oh it's so good! lol ok, sorry next

Becoming v A Whole in the World

[Veverka]

Damn... you're good at this game!

Two eps, where a character becomes something else that is somehow related to their former character, somehow not... both have Angel/Spike tension.

In a short summary though, the thing that wins it for me is the Astronauts v. Cavemen argument. So that's why I'll choose A Hole in the World. There's just so much loss and pain in the episode, but it's all got this lovely astronaut/caveman thread right through it that adds a little balance, peace, perspective- and the opposite of all those three things.

Birthday v. Surprise.

[NileQT87]

Surprise

cangel vs. bangel. no contest. it's also that dream sequence at the bronze, the "i like seeing you in the morning scene", the clauddagh being introduced, drusilla's dance, drusilla's flower pulling, coming in from the rain, angel losing his soul... one of the greatest cliffhangers ever...

also, i view birthday as skip and jasmine getting their desired reactions and the greatest example of manipulating cordy to fulfill their plans along with tomorrow. the alterna-world isn't so much what would happen, but what skip and jasmine wanted her to see to force the only decision they would have offered her. jasmine simply needed cordelia to become demonized to be her vessel. though i love that ats used several "sixth sense"-style "hell bound" ghosts and characters like tammy.

Forgiving vs. I Only Have Eyes For You (both have a forgiveness theme)

[alexa]

Forgiving..although there wasn't too much forgiveness heading Wesley's way I still love this episode and that part of season 3, the Wesley storyline made that season for me. I couldn't get into the Cangel story at all, but loved Wesley's development. I Only Have Eyes for You, has it's moments, but overall didn't love the flashback thing... do love Spike's quote though:

Spike: You know.. they say once you've drawn blood, you've exfoliated.

This Years Girl v Five by Five

[Jenni Lou]

hmmm....I dunno. Five By Five, I think. Faith is excellent in that eppy and it's become such a classic. Plus, Wolfram & Hart goodness! This Year's Girl is good too. I think my fave part is the end when Buffy and Faith fight just before the body swap.

The Wish vs. Birthday, battle of the Cordelia is awarded on alternate reality episodes!

[Nikki]

The Wish

I really love that episode, I love Vamp Willow and Xander and I love that Oz and Giles are still the good guys fighting a losing battle. Tough girl Buffy was also pretty funny.. 'is this a get in my pants think'?! I also really loved the Master, considering how much I hated season 1 he was one of my favourite villains so it was great to have him back in a great episode. Oh and a big plus point.. Buffy not caring when Angel was staked

Tabula Rasa vs Spin the Bottle forgetfulness ensues!

[Zack]

I have to go with Spin the Bottle, though I must say Tabula Rasa is good as well. Both episodes advance the plot well and both are hilarious, so really it's a matter of personal preference. I personally like how Spin the Bottle is framed; it's less linear than Tabula Rasa and I'm a fan of nonlinear episodes. In addition, the Cangel fan in me loves Spin the Bottle, so I have to give it my vote.

Forgiving vs. Normal Again - attempting to kill your friends is great!

[Cinderela]

Oh, I definintely have to go with Forgiving. I do love Normal Again, because there are some very hilarious moments, but in the end, it's just demon-poison induced weird behavior - we've seen it before and will again.

But Forgiving - wow! Yes, Wes thought he was saving Connor - but to KIDNAP him from under Angel's very eyes! You'd think Angel would know that the only people that can truly betray us are the people we really TRUST! Even the rest of the Fang gang is surprised at Wes's behavior.

Destiny VS Lies My Parents Told Me (the history of Spike!)

[spuffylove147]

I'm going to go with Destiny Even though I love Lies My Parents Told Me I love the showdown in destiny and all the emotional and physical blows they throw at each other....it did only win by a very thin hair though.

The Wish vs. Over the Rainbow Cordelia in alternate realities

[alexa]

I'm sure I'll be the only person ever to say Over the Rainbow. But the Pylea arc rocks, and Cordelia is great in it. The Wish I like and can appreciate for it's depth and darkness, but it's not the kind of episode I want to watch a lot. Pylea in Angel season2 is just so much more entertaining for me.

The Trial v Showtime

[NileQT87]

the trial

showtime is a fairly standard meh episode in season 7, imo (it's not even extraordinary for season 7). the trial is one of my favorites... first: darla/angelus flashback--first mention of holtz! angel choosing darla's human life over his in one of his most AMAZING sacrifices in the entire series. plus, it was when angel won a human life that went to connor. and of course, the awesome cliffhanger with drusilla... and one of the best angel desperation close-ups in the entire series (not to mention his violent wall punching when even after his sacrifice, darla can't even be saved). plus, it's darla (darla, in fact, who wanted to die a natural human death--and it was the first time she had ever felt cared about, even when she had been human--not the way she felt angel had cared about her--willing to give up his life that could help so many others, for hers when she couldn't even do right as a human). i have a love for every single darla episode.

spike getting tortured by the first as buffy/buffy's rescue is rather the highlight of showtime (and it was done so much better with drusilla in bring on the night--a performance with dialog that i actually love). otherwise, more ubervamps, potentials, southern slayer is dead and beljoxa's eye. not quite as powerful as the trial, imo, but i am more favorable to ats in general.

darla vs. fool for love

[vampmogs]

Yeesh that is an incredibly hard one for me. I love both episodes a lot. What I've always loved about Btvs was the mythology of the slayer and getting to see past slayers up close was just wonderful for me. Equally, the thing I love most about Ats in the flashbacks, in particular the ones focused on Angelus and Darla or the fang four. So both episodes explore my great passions for both shows which makes it incredibly difficult for me.

On the one hand Fool For Love gives us an insight into Spike's character that we'd never seen before, showed us the climatic battles with both slayers he faced and gave us insight into at least Spike's perspective of what life means to a slayer and fang four interaction. On the otherhand Darla showed us the Master again was which was fabulous, we saw Angelus meet the Master, Darla meet the gypsy from 'Becoming II' and how things ended between Angel and Darla.

I can't decide on the flashbacks because both episodes had such great ones, but ultimately I find Fool for Love's present day scenes far more interesting than the ones in Darla. So I guess I'm going to have to say Fool for Love.

Welcome to the Hellmouth Vs City of...

[ShinyFirefly]

Welcome to the Hellmouth because with all the cheese and iffy special effects of that episode, it was more entertaining than City of... which for some reason I always found reeeeally boring. I'm not sure why, as a lot of people seem to like it. Buffy and co. were more likable in WttH than Doyle (who I never liked much) and Cordy in City of... as well. Neither episode would be high on my list of favorites though.

End of Days vs Power Play
Battle of the second-to-last episodes.

[Jenni Lou]

End of Days. Although both are excellent. The former has so many great moments I enjoy though and all the Andrew/Anya interaction is just so fantastic. Both funny and heartbreaking. I also quite like the Buffy/Spike exchange which is sweet and brings closure to them, imo. I am a big fan of this episode.

Innocence vs. Calvary