Angel as a human scooby

[ciderdrinker]

Imagine this..

The Mohra demon made Angel human in IWRY but he went to the oracles and they turned back time. What would Angel's role had been if they refused? Would he go back to Sunnydale with Buffy and take up their relationship? I would imagine that he would, and that Buffy would be more than happy to have him. So that got me thinking what role would he play in their gang? Was he wrong in his decision that he wouldn't be able to help anyone as a man?

If we look at his qualities that would still be there after his vampireness was gone, I think that he was wrong and would make a good addition to the gang. Buffy is actually surrounded by humans that help her, so why would Angel be any different?

Fighting Abilities
Before he was made human he was obviously a strong fighter at Buffy's side, and although he wouldn't have the invincibility and vampire reactions, he would still be able to fight well. I mean Riley was human and he still helped Buffy after the "performance enhancing drugs" were out of his system, so I don't imagine that he would be useless in that department. He'd have to take a more backseat approach, but would still be useful. He'd be more use than Xander in this respect anyway.

Knowledge
Having (un)lived all those years, Angel has the wisdom of an old, old man, but the body of a young man. His knowledge of life, all things to do with vampires and the way they act would be invaluable to Giles (amongst others) and even possibly find him a role within the watcher's council. Angel was never really a book person, but he was intelligent and learned so could expand on that. He would be a bit like Anya in the respect that she knows how the demon world worked.

Mystical Abilities
Having the abilities of a vampire for so long and becoming a man suddenly, would probably depress him, so I would imagine that he would look for ways to increase his worth as a scooby gang member - just as Willow did. Angel had dabbled in magic on occasions before so understood it and with study could become proficient. I don't think he would ever become as powerful as Willow, but could definately help her.

Mental/Financial Support
This is where human Angel would shine I imagine. His devotion to Buffy is unwavering and would always take her side (like Spike does in Empty Places). She would turn to him when she had a problem, and of course he would help financially when her mother died, so that would ease her burden. He would be the other half of her and prop her up when she felt like falling over.

Leadership Qualities
He has this in spades and it has nothing to do with his vampireness. He is also has great strategic qualities. He would shoulder some of the responsibility that Buffy carries and they would become joint leaders of the group.

All in all, I think Human Angel would be a combination of Supporting Xander, Ex-Demon Anya, Normal Boyfriend Riley, Wicca Willow, Knowledgeable Giles and Leader Buffy. Imagine all the big bads that Buffy faced after Angel became human with him by her side. He could have protected the room whilst the original Scoobies did the enjoining spell to defeat Adam; his fighting skills would be useful in stopping Glory and if it was him and not Spike protecting Dawn on the tower, maybe things would be different; Angel wouldn't tolerate the Trio and surely take them down before Warren could shoot Tara so not creating DarkWillow; Angel's leadership qualities and support of Buffy would make her stronger when facing The First as well. Therefore I would think that in time they could become a pretty much invincible couple, even without his vampire abilities.

That brings me onto whether they would stay together. The whole "monster in her man" thing stems from her failed relationship with Vampire Angel. If the reason for them splitting was gone I think that she wouldn't feel that way, therefore they would probably make it. (Remember this is theoretical, I don't think that the show would've been as good as it was if they did stay together, as Buffy had to struggle to make it interesting) There would be no relationship with Riley or Spike of course.

I don't think that Spike would've become a part of the gang with Human Angel there. Their rivalry wouldn't diminish, and Spike would actually be much more of a threat, so I would think that Buffy would deal with him in the only way she knows how (with vampires) and stake him whilst he was still a threat. This would be made easier with Angel there as he knows Spike well and would be invaluable to working out what he was up to.

The main problem I see with Human Angel being part of the Scooby Gang, would be - who would wear the amulet and close the hellmouth?

(I did post this over on BW, in case you've already deja'd this vu)

[KingofCretins]

I don't mean to be unkind to Angel, but I don't think he'd be all that extra-special or useful to the team as a human.

First of all, I think Xander would whup him pretty well if they were to get into it shortly after Angel became human, because Angel would not have learned how to fight without his superstrength, he'd be relearning everything, and Xander would know how to use what he has. It's not like Xander is a trained fighter, but he is aggressive and he looks like a solid puncher (back when they wrote him as being a legitimate participant in fight scenes, like "Becoming, Part I"). Eventually, yes, Angel would probably be their best human fighter, but, really, ordinary people as fighters are not a significant component to the scooby team.

He's a passing fair hand with spells, but he's no Giles or Willow.

He has no demonstrable wealth to contribute from.

His biggest contribution would be emotional support to Buffy, but that A) assumes they'd stay together, and B) assumes he wouldn't be exactly what the Oracles implied -- a distraction.

[Dorian's Kitten]

Yeah, I have to agree with most of what King of Cretins had to say.

The knowledge bit is interesting. You would expect Angel to have developed a lot of knowledge concerning the demon world over the years, but he generally knows a lot less than Wesley. His only real useful knowledge contributions over the years on Buffy (that I can remember off the top of my head) concerned his old gang members or the Master.

I do think he would probably be a good fighter right off the bat.

Also, whether or not Buffy requires her men to be more than human, Angel would have a hard time being the weaker partner. I think sitting back while she was in dangerous situations would kill him. Yes he stands back from time to time, but he does this knowing he could step in at the last moment. Angel is, I believe, too dominant a guy to handle being so ...weak.

I will end by throwing it out there that I think it would piss off Spike, but that he would be more likely to deal with it. He just tends to take whatever comes at him and he is more accustomed to being subordinate.

[tangent]

I think that last point is definitely a good one. Although spike would probably go to just about any lengths to get the shanshu, once the opportunity was gone i think he would be pretty quick to shrug it off and get on with his life.

[Mara]

Intressting topic. As A Bangel by heart I of course would have loved to see Angel stay human. But then i think I would have wanted Buffy to end. Like a big happy finale for the couple I love.

Anyway what if Buffy would go on and Angel wouold be human that is the question I think he would not be able to handle it compleatly becouse as was pionted out befoure, Angel has to strong of a carachter to be this weak (or you might say his carachter is actually not strong enough to be wea, depends on how you look at it) as for his abilaty's I agree on hat has been said befoure, being human he would probably have to relearn quite a few stuff ( we see him already not that well adjsuted in IWRY, althoug the food scene is hilarius and cute it also points out that boinderies is something he will have to relearn again for exsample and that's pretty basic stuff ) So to not make this post extra long I don't think he would be quite the addition to the gang as either a fighter or in a magical kind of way.

Then the BIG Question : Will Buffy and he make it as a couple. I don't know it would have been a good ride to wath that develop but sadly I don't think they would.

Here is why, Angel as a vampire was imo truly in love with Buffy, they were and imo still are soulemates but I also think he new that he was not able to do certain things with her, and I am not only talking about sex I am also talking about to qoute Buiffy "voulanteer for the red cross, or have little vampires" as a human all these possabilaty's that imo Angel has never even giveng thought to knowing that they were not likely to happen, suddenly become reality. Including having children. With Buffy. Now let's not forget he might look young but he is not, and he is clearly more than ready to have a child ( look at how he feels about Connor) add to that that he is with the woman he loves most and is suddenly human and I think their relationschip this time will strand on the bggest cliche of all: age diffrents. I think he would want kids, a house and just normalcy. i know that many think the oppposite becouse he has seen the dark side but as Angel once pointed out himself people who live fron 9 to 5 tend to forget about thing that go bump in the night. And Angel know a human, living fron 9 to 5 so to speak is most likely to "forget" about the monsters too. I know Buffy is still the slayer but sometimes if you want something hard enough you forget the things that stand between you and your wisch. And as much as I love Angel I think that that is what's going to happen.

Sorry for the rambling it's just an intrsting discussion

[LRae12]

Imagine this..

The Mohra demon made Angel human in IWRY but he went to the oracles and they turned back time. What would Angel's role had been if they refused? Would he go back to Sunnydale with Buffy and take up their relationship? I would imagine that he would, and that Buffy would be more than happy to have him. So that got me thinking what role would he play in their gang? Was he wrong in his decision that he wouldn't be able to help anyone as a man?

You know, I've often thought that Angel copped out when it came to that. He was all 'ooh, I can't help Buffy, I'm only human.' and Buffy was all 'oooh, I have to protect you, you're only a weak kitten.'

Yet Fred fought demons. She was practically a skeleton.
Gunn fought demons.
Dawn fought demons. She even fought the uber-vamps in Chosen when Buffy got her ass kicked up and down by one earlier in S7.
Cordy fought demons. She also was a 'lowly girl'
Even early 'rogue demon-hunter' Wesley fought demons.

Angel does not appear to be a weak man, especially compared with Dawn, Fred, Cordy, and Wesley. I think he could have held his own.

For someone who wanted to be human oh-so-badly, he gave up on it way to quickly, IMO. And the reasonings were a total cop-out.

[Ravynnia]

In doing the Alternate (but in actuality Prime) Buffyverse in "A Book By Its Cover," we gave a glimpse of human Angel; I saw him as better because releived of the curse/redemption motif. People are always more intriguing when they know they have a literal dead-line.

[Risa]

I can not decided whether Angel would have survived as a human or not. First point is his fighting skills. Yes, he had vampire strength but from various scenes we also know that he had martial art training. Vampires are born quick and strong. Noone said they were born into a black belt. Angel or Angelous learn his moves somewhere and those moves would have still been in a human body. He just wouldn't have as much strength behind them.
In the arguement of Angel's knowledge base. Just cause he lived a couple hundred years doesn't mean he should know everything or a lot about demons. He maimed, he slaughtered, he got rip roaring drunk and had sex alot. He knows of certain demons and situations, but that is probably because vampires would, like humans, pass down stories and information that a vampire should or need to know. He also seems to like to read so he might have read a little bit, but he wasn't brought up to be a geek like Wesley. Besides you have to remember that for quite a few years of his unlife, Angel was kinda depressed and living in sewers.
Now I think Angel could survive as a human if it wasn't for all the evil and darkness. He can fight sure, he can help out, but he spent so many years be the man right in the middle of the fight that I don't know if he could cope. Kinda like Riley...losing strength. Angel becoming human would mean he would lose everything he has come to accept and deal with. Xander stays back from fights cause he either knows he won't be off much help or becuase he is already knocked unconscious. Angel wouldn't be able to accept that he can't stand next to the slayer and fight. He could get some blows in, but he wouldn't be the lead fighter. I don't think he could live with that. He couldn't stand back and watch the slayer fight for her life. That is why he gave up his mortality the first time. Now if we cancel out the evil, the fighting and we find a time where Buffy is not always in the middle of an epic battle, I think it could work. For Angel to be human and be with Buffy, Buffy has to, for the most part, be away from that which goes bump in the night.

[Sassy]

The topic came up in the Bangel thread. As much as I love Bangel I have to say, I don't think Angel would last long. Angel has this whole hero thing. He would probably do something stupid like try to take Adam on himself and get himself killed. Bre mentioned that it would send Buffy over the edge, becoming just the slayer,m going out and patroling and being all work and no play. I have to agree, it is totally possible that Buffy would do this, or stop slaying and everything all together, just go through the motions.(It's weird using that phrase seeing as Buffy sang about it in OMWF)