The Scroll of Aberjian and the Shanshu

[Mabus]

Something has been disturbing me lately regarding the Shanshu prophecy.

Do I understand properly that the altered prophecy regarding Connor was part of the scroll in question? What precisely do we know about the Scroll's contents?

If Connor is indeed part of the prophecy, then doesn't that suggest that Jasmine has something to do with the Shanshu? Is it possible that the whole thing was a hoax?

[galathea]

Something has been disturbing me lately regarding the Shanshu prophecy.

Do I understand properly that the altered prophecy regarding Connor was part of the scroll in question? What precisely do we know about the Scroll's contents?

If Connor is indeed part of the prophecy, then doesn't that suggest that Jasmine has something to do with the Shanshu? Is it possible that the whole thing was a hoax?

No, the Scrolls of Aberjian do not contain prophecies about Connor. The Shanshu is part of that scrolls. We know that it contains the 'facts' that the vampire with a soul will become human once he fulfilled his destiny. Part of his destiny is to fight the upcoming darkness, some fiends that are unleashed upon earth and the apocalyptic battles. (To Shanshu In LA). They also contain the statement that the vampire with a soul will play a pivotal role in the fight against good and evil (Offspring).

The Aberjian scrolls also contain for example the destiny of the three seer children that are presented in Blind Date. The Shanshu actually is only a small part of it.

The prophecies containing information about Connor (and Holtz) are the Nyazian scrolls that Gunn and Wes steal at the beginning of S3. They refer to the 'The father kills the son' prophecy as well as the Tro-Clon prophecy announcing Holtz' arrival. It is possible that they also contain the prophecy in question about Sajahn but it is never definitely said so. Sajahn doesn't give the specific name.

[ciderdrinker]

Galathea is right regarding the Scrolls of Aberjian and the Nyazian Prophecy. However, something has always bothered me about the Shanshu prophecy and the "battle".

Is it possible that the "final battle" - the one that Angel would be a major player in - was not in the alley at the end of NFA, or some battle that is yet to happen? What bigger battle could there be than creating peace across the globe? Angel was always fighting that battle in his small way, but he was given a major hand up in the form of Jasmine. Of course, whether what Jasmine was doing was wrong, has always been left deliberately open to interpretation (and I'm not saying it wasn't)

Angel didn't become human after fighting Jasmine, so that would lead you to assume that
a) This was not the "final battle"
b) It was, but he fought on the wrong side.

I know that Angel's final battle with Jasmine was not exactly of apocalyptic proportions - but if you think about the difficulties of breaking out of a mind-controlling, slave state - then that is quite an achievement.

Lilah is the one who intonates that the destruction of Jasmine, could've been the wrong thing to do, and then offers him a reward for ending world peace - the complete control of an evil empire! The reaction to this comment by Fred and the others leads me to believe that maybe they were not totally convinced they did the right thing.

Basically I'm asking - do you think that Angel could've fought on the wrong side of the final battle and lost his Shanshu chance, before he signed it away in NFA? Is it possible the PTB sent Jasmine to Angel so that they could create world peace and Angel messed it up?

[galathea]

Basically I'm asking - do you think that Angel could've fought on the wrong side of the final battle and lost his Shanshu chance, before he signed it away in NFA? Is it possible the PTB sent Jasmine to Angel so that they could create world peace and Angel messed it up?

I always figured that the nebulous passage 'fight the upcoming darkness' from the Shanshu Prophecy referred to Jasmine's arrival, what with the blackened out sun and all. I highly doubt that Jasmine was sent by the PTB, because

a) for the PTB there was no need to trick Cordy into carrying Jasmine, they could have openly communicated with her and Cordy would have freely given herself over to do so and

b) Jasmine's dominance would have effectively destroyed any hold the PTB have over mankind as well. Jasmine's reign over the world not only ended the free will to do evil (which was why W&H was so affected) but also to freely do good. The balance between good and evil was non-existant and while I think the PTB were fighting for the side of good, I also think they have motives of their own.

Lindsey points out to Angel, that the apocalyptic battle they are all waiting for is already upon earth, only nobody realizes it because it's not what they all expected (Underneath). It's in the slow destruction of morals and hope and love on earth and Angel supports it by working for W&H, focusing on the 'bigger picture' instead of saving innocent lives. So basically you can say that Angel's original 'We help the helpless' approach was his fight for the final battle already and with taking over W&H he left that game. Well, that's my take on it anyway

[Cinderela]

Is it possible that the "final battle" - the one that Angel would be a major player in - was not in the alley at the end of NFA, or some battle that is yet to happen?

Angel didn't become human after fighting Jasmine, so that would lead you to assume that
a) This was not the "final battle"
b) It was, but he fought on the wrong side.


Lilah is the one who intonates that the destruction of Jasmine, could've been the wrong thing to do, and then offers him a reward for ending world peace - the complete control of an evil empire! The reaction to this comment by Fred and the others leads me to believe that maybe they were not totally convinced they did the right thing.

Basically I'm asking - do you think that Angel could've fought on the wrong side of the final battle and lost his Shanshu chance, before he signed it away in NFA? Is it possible the PTB sent Jasmine to Angel so that they could create world peace and Angel messed it up?

I have always thought that the battle in the Alley at the end of NFA was not the "final battle" of the prophecy.

I think Jasmine is independent of the PTB and the Senior Partners. I forget which episode, but Skip makes some speech about how hard it is to orchestrate something like Jasmine coming - opening the wrong book, sleeping with the enemy, leaving Pylea, etc., etc. So I never thought Jasmine had anything to do with the Prophecy.

I don't think that Fred or any of the Fang Gang looked at the destruction of Jasmine as the end of world peace until Lilah congratulates them. (And I was SO happy to see her back!)

If Angel lost his Shanshu chance by fighting on the wrong side (and which side is the wrong side would certainly depend on who was doing the judging), what would be the point of making him sign it away - in blood, no less.

My question is this - even tho ANGEL signed away the Shanshu, isn't SPIKE still a candidate? He has all the same qualifications as Angel....so why couldn't HE still be eligible?