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Question about "Are You Now or Have You Ever Been"

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  • Question about "Are You Now or Have You Ever Been"

    Okay, so Angel went about living on the streets after having been cursed with his soul, sucking on rat juice. We see his flash back on Buffy with him still living on the streets doing the same thing. Whistler takes him aside and give him purpose. He also told him about buying pig's blood as if Angel never thought of doing that before.

    So where does Are You Now or Have You Ever Been fit in this? It shows he was living a comfortable life in a fancy hotel and buying bottled blood from somewhere. He was still lost in his own darkness but he wasn't living like a vampiric hobo. I'm guessing he eventually felt horrible after he left and resorted to staying away from people, period, but it still doesn't seem to mesh. I mean, when I first saw that Buffy episode with the flashback and Whistler, I felt that Angel genuinely didn't think about buying blood, pig's blood or otherwise. He was cleaned up and had the 50's hair style in AYNoHYEB.

    So what made him go from hobo, to living with the people, to going back to hobo again?

  • #2
    We also see him living in an apartment in WWII during a Why We Fight flashback. I think it shows how Angel had good times where he had his own place then bad times when he fell into despair. Like during the dream in Orpheus where we see Angel's memory of drinking on the dead man in the 70's cafe. He wasn't always living on the streets, roaming aimlessly and living off of rats, but his life still held little purpose and so he was susceptible to falling into despair and giving into temptation without something to tie him to humanity.
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    • #3
      AYNoHYEB and "Why We Fight" both include a little bit of a retcon. Whistler is vague, but does say that Angel's "been left alone for ... ninety years" and strongly implies that Angel is totally cut off from the world (otherwise he'd know about pig's blood from the butcher).

      But Emmie's on to something. Angel's chronology goes from being useful during the war to abandoning the residents of the Hyperion and then feeding off someone. Even though he seemed fairly together during the war, his own later acts could easily send him spiralling into despair.
      Cordially,
      Amuk

      I didn't jump. I took a tiny step, and there conclusions were.
      Addicted to Buffy

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      • #4
        We saw him in +/- 1920 as well, when he was saving the puppy. He looked clean in that time as well.

        So my guess is that he got it together a couple of years after he got a soul. Then he lived an inviseble life until he drank of that man in +/- 1970.

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        • #5
          Yeah that's what I always believed. It was drinking from the dead shop keeper that sent him over the edge and ridden by guilt and self-loathing he kept himself from humanity all together and ended up the way he did in Manhattan when Whistler found him.

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          • #6
            Going by the music on the jukebox, the donut shop incident was 1976 at the earliest (Donna Summers' "MacArthur Park" was from 1976 and Barry Manilow's "Mandy" was from 1974).

            Angel was drinking rat at the waterfront and on the ship, but by the '50s was definitely stealing human blood from hospitals, as can be seen by the container. It wasn't until 1976ish-1996 that he was on a pure rat diet. He also kept himself fairly clean once he got off the ship at Ellis Island and until the donut shop incident. It sounds like he traveled North America quite a bit. While he wasn't super-sociable and tended to avoid humans except for a handful of incidents (and apparently was quite sociable in Vegas), he wasn't a bum except for the beginning and end of his ensouled time pre-Whistler.

            "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
            "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

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            • #7
              Originally posted by vampmogs View Post
              Yeah that's what I always believed. It was drinking from the dead shop keeper that sent him over the edge and ridden by guilt and self-loathing he kept himself from humanity all together and ended up the way he did in Manhattan when Whistler found him.
              That's a possible explanation. The moment seems to have some importance, otherwise it would not appear in Angel's dreams in such a way, I think.
              It would be interesting to have a "timeline" of what Angel did (apart from hunting rats ) and where/how he lived inbetween those flashbacks.
              Sin is what I feast upon
              I'm forging my crematorium
              Your tomb is waiting here for you
              Welcome to my ritual

              -Judas Priest, Death

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