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Issue #16 Spoiler Discussion

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  • Issue #16 Spoiler Discussion

    "At the conclusion of Angel: Season Five, all of Angel's efforts to save his friends and his city resulted in a hellish existence for all of them. Now, in the penultimate chapter of Angel: After the Fall, a final, climactic battle will see Angel live free or die for the final time."

    It's Brian's favourite issue, so I expect a lot.

    The first panel is terrible, poor Angel and poor Connor. And is this the end of Wesley, that sounded awfully like a goodbye. *sniff*

    And another good plan? Angel found a new talent.

  • #2
    That all looks simply fantastic! I can't wait to get hold of my issue!

    And once again I gotta say that first cover is gorgeous.


    • #3
      I agree it looks wonderful -- the writing, the art, even the colouring, all of it. I just hope this talk of timelines doesn't point to the Reset Button.

      (set made by Francy for me)


      • #4
        WONDERFULL !!

        I can't wait !

        The first panel ... excellent !!!!
        Sorry if you don't understand what I write, I'm french.


        • #5
          either way what?????

          either way Wes is still dead??

          either way Wes is still damned??

          either way Wes moves on??

          either way Angel misses out on a good bye kiss?

          The mental telepathy between Wes and Angel is erie and drives me crazy!!! Spike, were you gonna kiss?? slashy, ok-obviously from the plotlines neither Angel or Wes is strictly homosexual, bi is up for grabs. If vampires are bi- and the little remark about Spike and Angel being intimate just that once-maybe Angel is just a little in love with Wes. Spike definitely displays a little petty jealousy.

          Subtext, subtext, subtext-yes that was one word three times.

          I am so enjoying this little romp thru hell with Angel and his friends.


          • #6
            Originally posted by Enisy View Post
            I agree it looks wonderful -- the writing, the art, even the colouring, all of it. I just hope this talk of timelines doesn't point to the Reset Button.
            No way is that gonna happen. I'd give nearly any writer more credit than that. After all this excitement over the course of 17 issues and then to just reset everything? No way. It's fine if it's done in a single episode ie, "The Wish" or "I Will Remember You" but the comic's main selling point is that it's the official continuation of the TV series. It's a story that takes place over several months and big, important stuff has happened. I'm thinking Mr. Lynch might play around with the timeline a bit before he finishes the story, but I very much doubt we're going to backtrack all the way back to before the alley fight.

            As for Angel's new plan... I have no idea what it could be. Angel and Wesley know what it is... Gunn's about to find out and I guess if George really want's to know he could read Angel's mind. My initial thought was that he's going to try to become a vampire again for some reason, with the knowlege that the Senior Partners will pull his soul out of the timeline so that they still have thier guy. But then that wouldn't make sense seeing as how Wesley's initail suggestion was the Slayers...


            • #7
              My initial reaction to what Angel's plan is going to be was that they were going to reach back into the timeline and grab a living version of Connor, but I get the impression that the plan is a lot grander than that...unfortunately. Seriously, why did Connor have to die?!

              That first page was amazing. The composition between Angel holding Connor at birth and again at death was heartrending. The rest of the preview was great as well. Great to see the goodbye that Angel and Wes didn't express in NFA. It seems this stint in hell has actually repaired their friendship.


              • #8
                The composition between Angel holding Connor at birth and again at death was heartrending.
                I thought so as well. The whole thing very much had the flavor of the show about it. I'm so looking forward to seeing how this one ends.


                • #9
                  Wonderful writing in that first panel! Beautiful starting with that first time Angel held Connor. It's so sad that Connor is gone. Can't wait for this issue - and reset is just fine for me as long as EVERYONE lives...

                  Covers are great - the first is the best - but I have to continue my loyalty with Uru - I'm still hoping for a Spike spin-off.
                  "At that point I'd love a fight and a heart to heart and then of course naughtiness and happy ever after."
                  - Dorian's Kitten re: Spuffy Reunion

                  Spuffy Videos!


                  • #10
                    I hate to be a spoil-sport but apparently those pages weren't supposed to be released yet.


                    Maybe we should think about taking them out of the post?


                    • #11
                      I'm okay with doing that, but I've seen them on other sites as well. So I'm not sure if it really makes a difference. The most people did read it anyway.


                      • #12
                        Well, today is the day.

                        Originally posted by Brian Lynch on Slayalive
                        I've been waiting for this issue for soooooo long. To write it, to see the art for it, to read your reactions to it. This is the issue I will re-read a lot, years from now, when I want to read something I had a hand in. Issue 17 is great too, I'm proud of it and Franco did some wonderful, wonderful art.

                        Issue 16 is the conclusion to the adventure, to the storyline, the dramatic climax. Issue 17 is the character resolution, the quiet epilogue (as quiet as ANGEL can get, anyway, which is to say, it's still got demons, high stakes, and fisticuffs) and sets the stage for some things to come.

                        I honestly cannot wait for 16 to be in everyone's hands. I'm glad we have two more issues to share with each other.
                        Will 'we' get out of hell today?


                        • #13
                          Whoa, thanks for posting that. I hope it all will appear as a paperback edition soon so I can order it via Amazon.
                          Sin is what I feast upon
                          I'm forging my crematorium
                          Your tomb is waiting here for you
                          Welcome to my ritual

                          -Judas Priest, Death


                          • #14
                            Review of Issue #16 --

                            "We should do the mega-happy ending"

                            I'm really torn on this issue... on one hand, I want to embrace it as just incredible stuff, and it's not that I was surprised by stuff -- I've argued for a long time that it's perfectly possible everything in Hell-A would end the same night as the alleyfight, which it did. And I'm very glad that Brian did *not* use a "reset" to just erase the events in Hell-A, because everybody involved remembers what happened. But I was surprised that the upshot would be that it would have no lasting effects other than the existential ones. I'm glad Connor is alive, and Gwen presumably is alive. I'm not sure about Gunn surviving, though, but that's probably because I spent the entire time since the end of "Not Fade Away" assuming he'd died. But there does seem something slightly wanted in the "mega happy ending" of it, where everybody survived, even the Dragon.

                            At least we have the major timeline and continuity issues with Season 8 settled. And, I felt like perhaps the issue was teasing the true roots of "vampires in public" being that the entire LA metro now has an understanding or memories of vampires and demons. In 8.21, there seemed to be an idea of vampires before Harmony's show, just not a lot of interest.

                            I'm really not sure which was the "Brian's favorite scene" -- reuniting with Connor, or the climactic confrontation between Angel and Gunn. They were both pretty incredible. And it's fitting that the LA branch of W&H has disappeared... to be replaced by a Doublemeat! Hehe.

                            Wesley's departure was sad but also understandable. It was a nice, quiet walk away for him. It reminded me of the Operative at the end of "Serenity", in a way, although Wes was much more agreeable.

                            This felt a lot like "Peace Out" and "Primeval" did... this is the issue where the story really finished, but there's a coda -- Issue #17 will be "Home" or "Restless".

                            I'm still not happy to see Angel back as a vampire, and as I thought, I've basically lost sympathy with any hope he has of being human because it's officially been teased too much. But, what I asked was that it be done in a way that wasn't cheap or undermined Angel's actual character and motivations, and Brian did that, so I accept it. Plus, it's amusing me that probably the most uncomfortable part of Angel's time in Hell-A -- the notoriety -- has followed him back.

                            Excellent at by Franco, particularly Angel's crying panel. The pencils, coloring, and ink make Gunn's fire sword just look great. I would say that this is tied with Issue #15 for the best issue of "Angel: After the Fall", and ultimately is a very satisfying ending to the major plot elements. I hope Issue #17 brings us mostly nice character moments... Nina, some GWONNOR, and maybe Lorne and Angel talking. It was maybe a bit too close to the "mega-happy", but that's not enough to cut into it being awesome.
                            Banner by LRae12


                            • #15
                              Yay, so Angel is a vampire again!

                              I thought they wouldn't risk buggering up the franchise by permanently turning him Human. Great stuff!


                              • #16
                                My reaction:

                                I've been a vocal critic of After the Fall recently. Or rather, when I wasn't squeeing over the parts I was in love with - Urru's return, Fabio Mantovani doing the art, everything in #15. But I went through something today that made me fully realize how much I love this series.

                                I hate waiting. Waiting is evil. That's why purgatory is so feared - you're waiting for an eternity. Lynch - if W&H has completely shelved their Hell-A plan, they should give Purgatory-A a try. It's WAY more evil. Traffic jams are evil. Commercials, even the time it takes to fast-forward through the commercial, are evil. Radio commercials are even more evil, but that's also because they're made to be annoying. My own personal hell would be me stuck in a doctor's waiting room, forced to listen to annoying radio commercials while I wait for the music to come back, fast-forwarding through TV commericals where the show never plays. And also somehow stuck in traffic so that I'm forever waiting to get where I want to be. Waiting. *shivers*

                                [The following involves a story related to a political figure - I'm not intending to stir the political waters. The events are true, but names have been altered to prevent a political massacre. I promise I have no political agenda. I'm trying to be funny. Sometimes I miss my mark. ]

                                I also realized there was an unforeseen downside to who I voted for this past November. Oblamarama, you hit me where it hurt today. That's right, Oblamarama - one day into your term as President and you're spreading evil throughout America. I waited in line at my comic bookstore for over an hour, outside in the moderately cold (but let's pretend it was freezing so this story gets me more sympathy) weather. I waited alone, oh so alone (except I was talking on the phone and complaining the entire time). But you get the picture - EVIL. A personal hell created for an impatient person. So how is this Obama's fault, you ask?

                                The. Amazing. Spider-Man. Cameo.

                                I went through purgatory today to get my After the Fall #16 and as soon as it was bought and paid for, I went to my car and read it. I simply refused to wait any longer. So here's my testament to the quality of this issue. Two simple words:

                                Worth. It.

                                Banner Set by thedothatgirl


                                • #17
                                  Huh.. so everything has been reversed? Basically a 'I Will Remember You' but for the entire series? I’m gonna have to get my hands on this issue pronto and read it for myself, cause right now I feel really disappointed with that outcome..

                                  ~ Banner by Nina ~


                                  • #18
                                    From what I understand everybody still has their memories. Which can be very interesting, especially in the cases of Gunn and Illyria.

                                    I also need to read it first before saying much about it. But I'm happy that we have the 'old' Gunn back, I missed that guy so much. And Connor of course. *YaY* for the new chance for Gwen & Connor.
                                    and her haircut.
                                    Last edited by Nina; 22-01-09, 12:31 AM.


                                    • #19
                                      It's not "I Will Remember You". It's "Anne". Everything in "Angel: After the Fall" happened, but in a pause between time. It has a lasting and shared reality to everybody in the affected area. It spawned the public vampire events, not Harmony. It's permanently changed Illyria's personality. The only thing to which any "reset" is applied is that everyone is back at "first positions" physically -- both where they are located and their physical nature. Angel's back to vampire with soul, Gunn is bleeding again, Illyria is back in Fred's body. But everybody went through it.

                                      In "I Will Remember You", there was no temporal "reality" to what happened. It's a day that might have been.

                                      Another good comparison would be the time-loop in "Life Serial", affecting the entire city.
                                      Banner by LRae12


                                      • #20
                                        Like I said on Whedonesque: I have to wonder what Brian's original Angel: After the Fall pitch was like, if this is the version that came after Joss's criticism that the characters were more or less back where they started by the end / the status quo was the same / nothing really changed.

                                        Proper review later, though.

                                        (set made by Francy for me)