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Doyle And The Visions

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  • Doyle And The Visions

    So I've just begun to rewatch Season 3 and while I'm still near the start of the season at the moment. I got thinking about information that we are given during that season and one thing that I started thinking of is the visions. In 'Birthday' we are told that it is because she is a human that Cordelia experienced real excruciating pain from the visions and that the only way that she could counteract this and maintain the visions was by becoming half-demon.

    But we have seen that even natural part-demons can experience pains from the visions. Just look at Doyle who from what we saw did gain pain from the visions though not to the extent that Cordelia did and he was a half-demon. So why do you think this is? Did the Powers-That-Be perhaps do more to Cordy than just make her half-demon? Did they make her fully demon or do you think that they just made her half of a stronger type of demon than Doyle which would explain the nifty abilities like the floating during the visions, and the shiny light thing, or did they make her similar to a slayer and just placed the essence of a demon into her. Which would explain the lack of demonic features, but obviously it would be a different type of demon to the one put inside a slayer lol.

    What are your thoughts on the subject? Or has this already been explained on the show and I've just forgotten?
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  • #2
    I think that Cordelia became another kind of demon. If it were the PtB that changed her; Maybe they choose to give her powers that would prevent the pain. When it was Jasmine; it's possible that she gave Cordelia the powers that were needed to create her own body.

    Not every demon is the same;
    Slayers are humans with the powers of demons, the same for Connor. Still the powers are different because the demon was different.

    Halfdemons we met in many different forms; (the only pure ones we met were; Snake!Mayor, Turok Han and Illyria in her true form) and ever demon is different. Lorne is different from vampires who are different from Clem etc.

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    • #3
      Doyle experienced pain, it?s true but his body could take the visions without any more external and internal damage. Cordelia as a human could not. The visions were killing her brain and her body wasn?t able to handle so much shock.

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      • #4
        I think that's right. Doyle was able to manage, even though it hurt, but Cordelia simply couldn't. Later, Jasmine was manipulating things, so Cordy was spared the pain as well as the damage.
        Cordially,
        Amuk

        I didn't jump. I took a tiny step, and there conclusions were.
        Addicted to Buffy

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        • #5
          Cordelia was made part-demon for the sole purpose of enduring the visions (and to be a suitable host for Jasmine but that came later...)

          I figure since her demon side was created for exactly that purpose, the visions come more easily to her than they would for Doyle. Doyle was born part-demon and got his visions from somewhere. Cordelia already had the visions and her demon side was created to accomodate them.

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          • #6
            Exactly, Cordelia was given a power that would let her endure the visions without any damage, and all the rest of her new powers were prety much side-effects. Doyle was born half Bracken and later on got the visions, he wasn't "designed" for them straight away.
            Sin is what I feast upon
            I'm forging my crematorium
            Your tomb is waiting here for you
            Welcome to my ritual

            -Judas Priest, Death

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            • #7
              I think this is a mild continuity error. You can wank it, but they prolly should'nt have taken away the pain and made her all glowy eyed/floaty instead. It messed up the Doyle logic. They could've just left it as post-demonized she still felt the pain (like Doyle) but "just doesn't die from it now."

              I always find the comparison between Cordy's visions and Phoebe's visions (from Charmed, if anyone watched that) interesting. Phoebe had them first, but I always suspected that the people on Angel tried to differentiate them from Phoebe's in various ways, i.e., the pain and convulsions. Taking the pain away made it too similar to Phoebe's. Then, of course, Charisma was on Charmed with the visions also....which didn't help matter. Now I'm slowly, but surely, veering off topic. I'll be over there.

              -T

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Buffyfest View Post
                I think this is a mild continuity error. You can wank it, but they prolly should'nt have taken away the pain and made her all glowy eyed/floaty instead. It messed up the Doyle logic. They could've just left it as post-demonized she still felt the pain (like Doyle) but "just doesn't die from it now."
                I think the lack of pain was the first sign that Cordy becoming a demon needed to be looked at more closely - it should've raised warning bells. When does anything come that easily in the 'verse? The fact that it was played out as something so horrible yet we only saw positive effects during Season 3...well, it goes a long way towards showing that her transformation was meant to be cloaked as something with no negative side effects only for us to discover in Season 4 that it really was too good to be true.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Emmie View Post
                  The fact that it was played out as something so horrible yet we only saw positive effects during Season 3...well, it goes a long way towards showing that her transformation was meant to be cloaked as something with no negative side effects only for us to discover in Season 4 that it really was too good to be true.
                  Actually, yeah, if you put it that way it's more like good continuity than an error. Well played! I feel much better

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Emmie View Post
                    I think the lack of pain was the first sign that Cordy becoming a demon needed to be looked at more closely - it should've raised warning bells. When does anything come that easily in the 'verse? The fact that it was played out as something so horrible yet we only saw positive effects during Season 3...well, it goes a long way towards showing that her transformation was meant to be cloaked as something with no negative side effects only for us to discover in Season 4 that it really was too good to be true.
                    Those are good points. However, they didn't 'come easily.' First she had to ensure significant pain and suffering for two years because of them. Then she had to sacrifice the life she always thought she wanted and choose to become half-demon (without knowing what that would entail -- possibly literally) to be able to keep them. After that, having them cause pain not only wouldn't serve any storytelling purpose but would, in fact, be imposing too great a cost on her.

                    S4's retcon to make it all a huge plot supports the pain being taken away even more, but I don't see it as a continuity error regardless. The story just moved on.
                    Cordially,
                    Amuk

                    I didn't jump. I took a tiny step, and there conclusions were.
                    Addicted to Buffy

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                    • #11
                      You mean like "everything comes at a price"? Well, yeah, that's definitely true too. Moreover, Jasmine would have wanted to protect her and not risk any damage to her, even if it is only a headache - yet she might fall over and hit her head on something if the pain came sudden and strong... so best remove it altogether.
                      Sin is what I feast upon
                      I'm forging my crematorium
                      Your tomb is waiting here for you
                      Welcome to my ritual

                      -Judas Priest, Death

                      Comment

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