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  • Cordelia or Buffy?

    Although it seems no characters get a happy ending, if Angel could have one who would you rather see him end up with, Buffy ir Cordy? After recently rewatching Angel, the bond between cordelia and Angel is so strong both as friends and as people in love (seen clearly in You're Welcome), but his relationship with Buffy was pwerful as well (And despite Cordy, Chosen and The Girl in Question show that he is still into her). Who really belongs with Angel, and why?
    61
    Buffy
    47.54%
    29
    Cordelia
    52.46%
    32

  • #2
    Cordy all the way.

    I loved the Evolution of her character. And hated the highschooly melodrama that was the Buffy angel dynamic.
    ===Quote of the day===
    "To read makes our speaking English good"

    Xander

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    • #3
      I've a hard time picking one of the girls. I'm a Bangel since the first time I watched BtVS and to statisfy my Bangel heart I would love to vote Buffy.

      But since Sanctuary it looks like their relation comes from one side (Angel's side); he is there for her when she needs him and if he can help he wants to help (even suggests to wear the amulet so nobody else has to wear it). Buffy hasn't done anything for Angel since the fight between them in Sanctuary. The relation starts to feel wrong because of that. Especially after the power play she pulled in 'Damage' what was a gigantic risk for Angel's life. It's not that I think that one of the two is better than the other, but as long their relation only comes from one side; I can't really cheer for it either.


      Cordelia & Angel is the exact opposite, I couldn't enjoy of believe it until You're Welcome. Before that moment I really wished that they were still just friends (and sometimes I still want that.). But if one thing is clear in that relation is that they love eachother and do everything for the other. Which is of course much better, especially for Angel who thinks that every blow he gets is deserved.


      I'm not very difficult with shipping Angel, if he is happy with a nice girl. I'm fine with it, if the writers make Nina a good character and her relation with Angel is healthy and they really like eachother, I'm fine too.

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      • #4
        I'll still stick with Buffy. Maybe I'm a hopeless romantic... (but then again, I'm the threesome supporter, so maybe not. )
        Well, she is the love of his life, he still is there for her when she might need him. They would still be together if not for the curse. In my opinion (because just because someone's interpretation is different from mine that doesn't mean it can still be valid, I'm a liberal and tolerant guy after all), everythign else he settles for later on is second-best (or, where Nina is concerned, third-best - in The Girl in Question we see that he'd most likely readily ditch her for Buffy because while he clearly likes Nina, Buffy is the one he loves).
        Sin is what I feast upon
        I'm forging my crematorium
        Your tomb is waiting here for you
        Welcome to my ritual

        -Judas Priest, Death

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        • #5
          I don't like the Buffy character but Angel will always love the Slayer.
          Even if he was really in love with Cordy, their story is nothing to do with the relationship between Angel & Buffy.

          I always believed that at the end of Angel story, when his Shanshu will be done, he'd came to see Buffy but she 'd make her life with an another man (I always believe she would finally with Xander ! ^^) and Angel go back to work as a human ..
          Ok, that was my own story ! ^^
          Sorry if you don't understand what I write, I'm french.

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          • #6
            Buffy. His true love is and will always be Buffy. He might be in love with Cordy, but Buffy is his first true love. And I love Angel and Cordy?s friendship, that?s all!

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            • #7
              I love Cordelia, and I thought she was a true friend to Angel but, until You're welcome, i didn't feel this strong chemistry with Angel. But it was only one episode, so I'm gonne vote Buffy. She and Angel are soulmates.
              What? You?ve taught a psycho killer demon how to be human by making him watch Sex and the City?

              1.02 Never been kissed OUT NOW/ 1.03 Damned by the bell COMING SOON

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              • #8
                Buffy all the way. That's the great love of both of their lives.

                -Luc
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                "If you're an Angel/Buffy fan, there's a big payoff," - Jeremy Atkins, Darkhorse

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                • #9
                  Cordelia all the way. The Buffy and Angel relationship was a first love type thing, immature and overblown and based on ideal impressions rather than actually knowing each other.

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                  • #10
                    No doub't Cordy.
                    I hated Bangel from the beginnig, no I can think it kind of cute in the beginning, but not as grown ups. I don't believe Buffy is the love of his life. I think Cordy could be his soulmate if they had time.
                    When he became Angelus in s4 his perfect day was to be with Cordy.
                    And when Buffy died he was fine with it, he knew that day would come.
                    When Cordy died he couldn't even say her name.

                    No I really wish he and Cordy could be together. Poor old Angel really needs an happy ever after.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by buffyholic View Post
                      Buffy. His true love is and will always be Buffy. He might be in love with Cordy, but Buffy is his first true love. And I love Angel and Cordy?s friendship, that?s all!
                      Agree. It has to be Buffy. Those two were more in love with each other than any other couple on the show. Cordelia and Angel's relationship was well-done in You're Welcome and that's about it. It felt so forced and awkward in season 3. I loved their friendship bond most and it was kinda destroyed when they forced the two together for romance purposes.

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                      • #12
                        The voting's pretty close hey? I voted for Buffy because she seems like Angel's type in a weird sort of sense. I honestly couldn't tell you what type Cordelia would be suited with because she's that into herself, I find it difficult to read her.

                        When you push aside all the drama of Angel being a vampire and Buffy killing vampires, I see that Buffy belongs with Angel. They love[d] each other, even when they were with different partners.
                        BUFFY - Please come back. We have a Vampire we need you to kill... His name is Edward Cullen.

                        *wicked_visions*

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                        • #13
                          Who belongs with Angel?

                          Whomever makes him complete...it is all about Angel for me when it comes to a pairing because I feel he is normally the one who sacrificed for the women he loves. And I am not just speaking about the curse, as long as they live and are happy, Angel will do whatever is necessary to make that a constant reality even if it is giving up his dreams and desires.

                          So the girl that he wants, loves, dreams of growing old with the most...that is who I want for Angel. He deserves nothing less.

                          Now in my humble opinion I believe that woman is Buffy. Though they have been apart for many years there is still a connection and I believe now more than ever they would be able to understand each other and be there for each other.

                          There is Dawn and Conner and how both Buffy and Angel struggle to have a close and healthy relationship with them.

                          There is the burden of mistakes and choices they have made as leaders. Both are dealing with the harsh reality of their choices right now and personally I believe Buffy could use a visit from Angel very much. I think he would be an immense help to her, to be able tounderstand and give her good aound advice on how to handle what is ahead.

                          I just believe they complete each other and thus why I believe Buffy belongs with Angel.

                          But they still need to have some serious conversations before becoming a couple again. Damaged episode anyone? And of course there is the Spike factor

                          But I could almost equate Spike for Buffy the way I equate Cordelia for Angel, there will always be a connection, love, and admiration for those two. And there are things that those to share with Buffy or Angel that if Buffy and Angel got together would still be Cordelia's or Spike's..but again I believe that is just one more way that Angel and Buffy could connect because both could understand where the other is coming from and how a part of them will probably always belong to someone else.

                          Did that make sense?

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                          • #14
                            I'm afraid Angel won't see happy ending with someone...
                            But if he could - definitely it should be with Cordelia. Angel and Buffy doesn't even know each other anymore (did they ever?). Cordy is Angel's best friend, she knows him through and through, she's was there for him all the time, shared his happy and miserable times. As I've said many times before, they complement each other just perfectly, Cordy is very down to earth and has just necessary sparkle in her to make up for Angel's dark moods.

                            Also, when I think about the last time Cordy and Angel talked. "You'll win this in the end." "The Powers That Be owed me one, and I didn't waste it. I got my guy back on track." "We take what we can get, champ, and we do our best with it."
                            It's so much different from "What was the highlight of our relationship? When you broke up with me or when I killed you?" or "Okay, I'm cookie dough. I'm not done baking."
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                            • #15
                              Cordelia:

                              Cordelia knows who Angel is. She knows his mission. She's seen him find his footing in the world, she knows his past and loves his regardless. She can face his past and not want to hide from it. Angel has seen Cordy go from his shallow girl to his heroic warrior who is willing to fight by his side and make serious sacrifices.

                              Angel wanted to express his feelings to Cordelia but Groo came and it was thrawted and then Connor thwarted Cordy/Angel who were rushing to eachother by sinking Angel in the ocean. It was sad they never got to put into words what they were feelings.

                              But they showed it. Angel was willing to do anything to help Cordy when she was being tortured over her visions, And Cordy used her favor from the powers to warn Angel about W&H, before dying.

                              I don't think Buffy knew who Angel was, when she asked who he was and what happened with Dru in Lie to Me, Angel told her, Buffy couldn't deal. I think you need to know who a person is before you can claim love. Angel claims he fell in love with Buffy just seeing her when she was 15 years old walking down the steps at her highschool. Buffy knew nothing of Angel , his past, she was always trying to figure what he was thinking and feeling, they didn't really communicate. They couldn't express things physically because there was always that threat hanging over them.

                              Buffy and Angel know nothing of the growth one another have had since they've left eachother in season 3. Angel doesn't know about Buffy's hard times after she died, about her relationship and feelings for Spike.. the depth or them, her growing darkness and self understanding of being a slayer.

                              Buffy knows nothing of Angel having sex with Darla, going dark, having a son, Cordelia, his mission, his life..

                              How can you love when you just don't know?

                              Those are just my feelings. I just think they said it all in The Yoko Factor. They were moving on, they don't eachother's lives anymore.
                              David Greenwalt said it best, putting them together now would be a disaster it would be like reuniting Angel with his ex wife.
                              That was way back in season 2.

                              That said Cordelia is gone. And Buffy and Angel are still out growing and changing away from one another. In the end who knows. I will always believe that Cordelia knew and loved Angel the best and vice versa.
                              Last edited by Dazzling; 16-12-08, 07:20 AM.
                              Joss Whedon: What I basically said was 'Play the romance. Be proud of him. Love him when you say you love him.. - Spike and Buffy in Chosen
                              ****
                              TV Guide: Spike and Buffy #1 Hottest Scene- March 2008

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                              • #16
                                Well, Buffy and Angel don't really get the chance to spend more time together after their parting at the end of S3. Yes, they both have changed and probably remmeber a more or less idealised relationship, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't work out if they had more time together.

                                If not for the curse, I can see them growing and maturing together and fighting alongside each other, and all the time getting to know each other better and better.

                                Dazzling, the thing about Buffy being utterly shocked at what happened to Dru is a valid point to a certain degree, though I'd add that the one who did this is not exactly the Angel Buffy knows at this point, but his twisted and perverted form. Sure, it's his past, but Angelus is not the boyfriend Buffy has come to know.
                                And wouldn't every girl be shocked at a revelation like this? Knowing he has committed gruesome acts in his past is one thing, but getting it detailed is entirely another.
                                Besides, after Buffy has seen Angel soulless, she has come to know this side of him only too well - better than Cordelia at the time when she asks Angel for a date by the shore, because it was Buffy Angelus was specifically targetting. (The one Cordelia who meets Angelus up close is the one already possessed by Jasmine, after all.)
                                Sin is what I feast upon
                                I'm forging my crematorium
                                Your tomb is waiting here for you
                                Welcome to my ritual

                                -Judas Priest, Death

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                                • #17
                                  My point wasn't that Buffy was shocked. My God who wouldn't be. My point was that Buffy asked, she wanted to know who Angel was, when he told her, she couldn't deal with the truth. The episode's name is "Lie to Me". It says it all. She asked, but couldn't handle who he was. So she ducked her head, turned away from the ugly truth, she didn't want to face it.
                                  She told him the moment before she loved him. But I think love is knowing someone, where they've been, the good, the bad, the ugly.. not seeing them and saying at first sight "Oh I love you", without even getting a grasp on who they are.

                                  Is the Buffy who walked down those school steps, the Buffy that Angel claimed to have loved at first sight, is that really who Buffy is at heart? She was a bit of a shallow 15 year old having no idea who she was, playing back and forth games with guys. She was in a sense normal.
                                  Can you claim love without knowing someone?

                                  I don't think so.

                                  Comparing that to Cordelia/Angel.. them knowing eachother inside and out, them standing by eachother, not giving up and walking away, them seeing the best and the worst of eachother and still having those feelings.. That just means a hell of a lot more to me. It's adult, it's real.

                                  Buffy and Angel shared to me this idealized, melodramatic type thing. So much more like this first love where they didn't know what the hell to do. They didn't laugh or joke around much. Buffy never really knew what was going on in Angel's head, Joss said in the Chosen commentary that Spike was more on Buffy's level then Angel and I see that, Angel is more in my mind, solitary, to himself, dour, ... can I imagine them going out dancing, tossing back drinks, having some fun? Not really. And that is part of Buffy, just as much as the heroine, serious side of her.

                                  A keen example of this was when Buffy was doodling Angel and Buffy forever on her binder and making plans about prom. And Angel.. geesh he's planets away from that kind of thing.. proms and forevers and hearts.. he's about finding a way to deal with what he's done, dealing with the things spinning in his head, the doubts about Buffy that he's having.. And Buffy is oblivious, thinking about prom and dresses and forever.
                                  They were so on different levels.

                                  I don't agree that Angel and Buffy didn't have time to do something with their relationship.. they did, they just spent most of the time going back and forth about it. It was like they were stuck and had no where to go.. I think even the writers said they were running out of ideas for Buffy/Angel in season 3. I kind of saw that. Because there just wasn't much left. They loved eachother and now there was just this back and forthness.

                                  Always unsure, always not knowing where to go with it. Buffy seemed insecure about things, Angel seemed to feel like he knew more then Buffy.. like she was this naive young girl and he was the one who knew better. I didn't see them as equals.

                                  Unlike Cordy/Angel or Spike/Buffy. And I think equality and communication, seeing the best and worst of someone and standing by them.. understanding them, evolving with them.. I think that is important. Most important.

                                  Angel and Buffy didn't have that, to me.

                                  They had a first love that was tragic and marked them, and they will forever look back as "they were the ones who got away". but I think it can be idealized. They struggled and it wasn't so pure. But I think when you loose something and suffer and hurt as much as they did, you remember things the way you want to see them, not exactly the way they were.
                                  Joss Whedon: What I basically said was 'Play the romance. Be proud of him. Love him when you say you love him.. - Spike and Buffy in Chosen
                                  ****
                                  TV Guide: Spike and Buffy #1 Hottest Scene- March 2008

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Dazzling View Post
                                    My point wasn't that Buffy was shocked. My God who wouldn't be. My point was that Buffy asked, she wanted to know who Angel was, when he told her, she couldn't deal with the truth. The episode's name is "Lie to Me". It says it all.
                                    Exactly. And part of why she couldn't deal with that was that she was too young, her love was not supposed to deal with past uglies. She wanted Angel to be the gorgeous mystery guy, I bet the whole evil-vampire-turned-good felt really romantic to her - but only if she didn't get to know too much details from his past. Which is all very normal for a teenager. And I believe in general teenage loves don't last. There are too many problems. (And especially those teenage loves don't last where one concerned part is actually a grown-up. Sooner or later the younger part discovers s/he has to find his/her own way).

                                    Originally posted by Dazzling View Post
                                    Buffy and Angel shared to me this idealized, melodramatic type thing. So much more like this first love where they didn't know what the hell to do. They didn't laugh or joke around much. Buffy never really knew what was going on in Angel's head, Joss said in the Chosen commentary that Spike was more on Buffy's level then Angel and I see that, Angel is more in my mind, solitary, to himself, dour, ... can I imagine them going out dancing, tossing back drinks, having some fun? Not really. And that is part of Buffy, just as much as the heroine, serious side of her.
                                    Exactly! That's wonderful point! No, you can't imagine Buffy and Angel having drinks, laughing, making witty remarks. When I think of Bangel the first thing that comes to my mind is Big Problems and then with the "Oh, our love is forever" or "I love you so much I want to die" talk accompanied with many sighs.
                                    Whereas... can I imagine Spuffy or Cangel having drinks & much fun? Hell, yeah! We all can, I believe!

                                    Also I've always wanted to know what if S6 Spuffy would meet with S3 Cangel...? Maybe forced to join for some reason, preventing some Big Bad to get loose. It'd be such fun! All these different interrelations... I can practically see the uncomfortableness, how Spike and Angel would start with their issues, how Buffy will instantly take Cordy for the cheerleader she was in Sunnydale, how she'll notice the change, how she'll notice how Angel looks at her, how Angel and/or Cordy notice how Spike looks at Buffy (and vice versa), how Buffy probably at first will picture herself working closely with Angel (definitely not with Spike) and eventually discover she actually doesn't know Angel nor belong to his life anymore and that she's actually enjoying the company and working with Spike etc etc.
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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by missperoxide View Post
                                      Exactly! That's wonderful point! No, you can't imagine Buffy and Angel having drinks, laughing, making witty remarks. When I think of Bangel the first thing that comes to my mind is Big Problems and then with the "Oh, our love is forever" or "I love you so much I want to die" talk accompanied with many sighs.
                                      Whereas... can I imagine Spuffy or Cangel having drinks & much fun? Hell, yeah! We all can, I believe!
                                      I don't think that's exactly fair. Look at how happy and joyful Buffy and Angel were during I Will Remember You. They play and have fun, that's the happiest I've ever seen Angel where he wasn't doing his Dork Angel vibe. And same goes for Buffy too. I think Angel reaches deep down into this part of Buffy that just feels joy at seeing him.

                                      "Having drinks and much fun" is more the realm for best friends though, isn't it? It's great when your partner is both your lover *and* your best friend. Which is actually how I differentiate between Angel/Buffy (passionate romance, loving intimate connection) and Angel/Cordy (best friends, loving intimate connection). I think the best friend angle is something that Buffy and Angel could naturally grow into if they were ever to reunite romantically. That type of connection is something that grows over living together and being around your partner day in, day out. Buffy and Angel were always kept from having that type of normal routine because of the end-of-the-world hijinks, but a great hint of what was possible is shown in I Will Remember You.

                                      I never got a sexual tension vibe for Angel/Cordy that I was ever really comfortable with or felt was genuine. Their romantic relationship always seemed to be introduced through outside forces impinging on them - being possessed in Waiting in the Wings, Phantom Cordy telling Cordy she loves Angel in Tomorrow, Jasmine!Cordy telling Angel (for the first time) that they "were" in love in Spin the Bottle. It really confuses the issue of what are Angel and Cordy *really* feeling and what is just Jasmine or some other beasty manipulating them to feel. The only time the Angel/Cordy romantic angle worked for me was in You're Welcome and I think a huge part of that was that Boreanaz and Charisma were so overcome by the emotions of that scene. It's discussed in the commentary how emotional it was for them because it really was the official goodbye to Cordy. It was incredibly loving, but I still don't read that sexual chemistry between the two. It obviously works for a lot of fans, but it was always meh for me. Like Cordy and Wes kissing in Graduation Day, except for some reason no one realizes that the kiss is brother/sisterly.

                                      As for Cangel, well I just think it's kinda hopeless now. It was like hoping for Buffy/Angel post-Becoming before knowing that Angel would be resurrected. Except I think Cordy is truly gone. Maybe not, but I get the feeling that they're going to let her wonderful exit in You're Welcome count.
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                                      • #20
                                        I think it's fair. Because in I Will Remember You.. Angel was a human. It was a special circumstance.

                                        I'm talking about everyday normal way of things. That's what we're judging this on? Aren't we? Whose best for Angel, as he is, not as he is in one freak incidence.

                                        Angel as he usually is, Buffy as she usually is, do you see them dancing together, going out on dates, drinking, laughing, ect.. we know one thing they can't do.


                                        I Will Remember You was a step out of reality and reality for them is what Angel and Buffy have a hard time with in my opinion.

                                        Sure they could laugh and be happy.. when all of their problems were taken away. Angel wasn't a vampire. Poof , they could be together and smile and laugh and stand besides one another.

                                        It's easy to love when things are simple. But Not so much when there are many struggles and hurdles.
                                        I don't doubt they loved eachother. I just doubt that the love they shared was the certain kind of love that matters in the end.

                                        Fairytale love is beautiful, but it's not what I'm interested in. I like realistic looks at love. The kind of love and relationships where they don't get the magic spells that take away all the problems and allow them to be together and happy and everythings okay.

                                        The kind of relationship where they stand by one another and love even when the truths are really ugly. When you know "Hey this guy is a vampire, I know our future won't be normal" but I trust him, I love him and I'm going to be there.

                                        I don't know about Cangel being pushed and not realistic and not having that tension. Angel was jealous of Groo. Angel was feeling pretty sexually tense when he was teaching those moves to Cordy in "Billy" I think. He was facing his feelings, and Cordy was too.
                                        Again facing truths. Something I think Buffy and Angel struggled with. They either ignored them or hit the road and ran from them.


                                        I don't see souled vampire Angel sharing a social life with girlfriend Buffy. I don't see Buffy on the same level as Angel. I think Angel will forever believe that Buffy needs help, guidence, she's too vulnerable, precious.. hell he even had her spied on in Rome. There just isn't equality there for me.

                                        And Communitcation, I don't think it improved even after Chosen, I was rewatching "Damage" , Angel wanted to know what was up with Dana, Andrew came in and explained what Buffy planned with all the slayers, Buffy never even told Angel what had happened.


                                        Angel was talking about "Somedays" with Buffy, when he was just grieving over Cordy, mindwiped his friends, took over an evil lawfirm and gave up his son.

                                        Something isn't right with the picture. They move from point A to point Z .
                                        They go from "Hi" to "I love you forever" and they miss so much of the middle stuff and it's the middle stuff that I think matters most.
                                        Communication, truth, the journey, evolution, growing together, facing things together, not running from things, equality..
                                        I think Cordy had those things with Angel. I don't think Buffy did.
                                        Last edited by Dazzling; 17-12-08, 04:36 AM.
                                        Joss Whedon: What I basically said was 'Play the romance. Be proud of him. Love him when you say you love him.. - Spike and Buffy in Chosen
                                        ****
                                        TV Guide: Spike and Buffy #1 Hottest Scene- March 2008

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