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Angel's Crush On Cordy

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  • Angel's Crush On Cordy

    A lot of people say that the Angel/Cordy relationship was forced and was only created deep into Season Three for drama's sake. But I have been re-watching Season Two and it's surprising how clear Angel's affections for Cordy are from Epiphany onwards. Every episode there are allusions to him loving Cordy.

    But what do you guys think?

  • #2
    For me it wasn't clear since 'Epiphany', not even the Pylea arc when he is being petty because Cordelia runs to Groo. In both cases I still think that it was about their friendship. It would be weird if Angel after he got out his depression and obsession with Darla, fell in love with Cordelia the moment he could think clear again.

    For me the Angel/Cordy relation was on it's best when it was a combination of best friends and lovers (You're Welcome/ATF). Angel and Cordelia are two characters that fit together prefectly if you keep them true to themselves. The relation is so realistic and strong that there is no question that they love eachother as friends but also as lovers.

    My problem with season 3 was that the writers slightly changed the characters but more importantly, they changed the interaction between the two characters. It had to be the amazing Twu Wuv 4-evaah between two champions while Fred and Lorne were the fangirls. For me it felt off and I couldn't buy it. Maybe somebody else can explain it better.
    Last edited by Nina; 03-12-08, 04:54 PM.

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    • #3
      I feel they are growing very close as time passes, though if they are truly and deeply in love... Angel certainly feels for her strongly, yet when he has his soul taken from him it is still Buffy's name he calls out. And we don't learn what exactly Cordelia feels, apart from the obvious strong affection.
      Sin is what I feast upon
      I'm forging my crematorium
      Your tomb is waiting here for you
      Welcome to my ritual

      -Judas Priest, Death

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      • #4
        But She is in Love With Angel!

        Such a beautiful scene.



        About Angel calling out Buffy's name, I never understood that one. He lost his soul after sleeping with Cordy, he was completely in love with Cordy ... why saying Buffy's name?

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        • #5
          Perhaps because he wasn't completely in love with Cordy after all?
          Don't get me wrong, he definitely felt something very strong for her, but I still tend to think it was Buffy he would have chosen if he could have chosen freely.
          Sin is what I feast upon
          I'm forging my crematorium
          Your tomb is waiting here for you
          Welcome to my ritual

          -Judas Priest, Death

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          • #6
            He had a dream and everything was possible in that dream (I mean, Buffy could've come by and be all 'I Want You!'), still he picks Cordelia to sleep with. On that moment, Cordelia was his ultimate dream. Maybe it was some kind of call-back to Innocence?

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            • #7
              I don't know if everything was possible, it was a kind of illusion that should appear a plausible follow-up to what was happening. So Buffy suddenly appearing might have been a bit out of place.

              Yes, it must definitely reminded him of the events back then, but still, why call her name when calling out Cordelia's would seem more plausible if she were his one true love?

              Though I guess this really is a matter of interpretation.
              Sin is what I feast upon
              I'm forging my crematorium
              Your tomb is waiting here for you
              Welcome to my ritual

              -Judas Priest, Death

              Comment


              • #8
                That scene always bothered me, because by that point I was a firm Cordy/Angel shipper. I always had a fanwank for it, though it doesn't make a ton of sense and is too long to explain out. The jist of it is that he's only lost his soul once, so the only source his mind could pull from was that one experience.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Nina View Post
                  He had a dream and everything was possible in that dream (I mean, Buffy could've come by and be all 'I Want You!'), still he picks Cordelia to sleep with. On that moment, Cordelia was his ultimate dream. Maybe it was some kind of call-back to Innocence?
                  Thats how I saw it. To me it came across as he was having a flashback to when he was last 'in that position' so to speak.

                  I believe that he Loved Cordy very much, If he didn't that whole season wouldn't have made any sense considering what they were getting the characters to do.

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                  • #10
                    I think it was kind of forced. I mean, they were good friends, but it never looked like he felt something else other than a deep friendship until when he realizes he is in love with her. After that they do start to act all Dawson and Joey and it's all very natural, but i don't think there was much feeling until then.
                    What? You?ve taught a psycho killer demon how to be human by making him watch Sex and the City?

                    1.02 Never been kissed OUT NOW/ 1.03 Damned by the bell COMING SOON

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                    • #11
                      i really don't know what to think of angel/cordy. i'm sure he did have feelings for her, but for me at least, it seems as though the writers forced it. it felt like they used angels' feelings as a plot device to get to where they wanted the show to be. cordelia changed alot, too, in her characterization. none of it made very much sense to me. and i definately don't think he would have fallen enough in love with cordy to loose his soul.
                      Oz: Sometimes when I'm sitting in class... You know, I'm not thinking about class, 'cause that would never happen. I think about kissing you. And it's like everything stops. It's like, it's like freeze frame. Willow kissage.

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                      • #12
                        As I said in the Things You Would Change thread. I've never been a fan of the Angel/Cordy love story. It seems both forced and inauthentic. It also significantly undermines the sacrifice Angel made in IWRY. I have no issue with Connor's crush, of course. That makes perfect sense. But Angel being in a position to get his knickers in a twist over it doesn't.

                        They wanted to get the plot to a certain place and this was the route they chose. I just wish they'd taken a different one.
                        Cordially,
                        Amuk

                        I didn't jump. I took a tiny step, and there conclusions were.
                        Addicted to Buffy

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                        • #13
                          About Angel, Buffy and Awakening. First of all it is very obvious that by that episode it was Cordy who Angel wanted. It was his Day of Perfect Happiness - everything that happened there was a piece of a puzzle to add to his happiness. If it was Buffy Angel wanted, she would have appeared to the dream with an easy solution to the curse. (Something similar to how they found information about the Beast written on those warriors - some ridiculously easy solution). But this did not happen. In Angel's perfect dream he and Cordy got things finally right. If this does not mean love I do not know what does.
                          When I realised what had happened my first reaction to why Angel called out "Buffy" was that obviously because it was the exact same situation he had lost his soul the last time (making love with a woman he loved) and that's why he called out Buffy's name. I only read the other interpretation (that it was Angel thinking of Buffy while actually sleeping with Cordy :eek later on the net. Angel didn't whisper "Buffy" while making love with Cordy. He said Buffy's name in the exact moment when he felt he's losing his soul.
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                          • #14
                            let's see, I did not really see a lot of romantic feelings until season three and it was only on Angel's side.

                            Again I love Charisma but I just never felt it from Cordelia's side. It is one of those things...they keep telling me they are in love by situation, something they said, the team cheering them on etc. But I NEVER felt it. In his perfect day, first many things had to go right for him to get to complete happiness and the love scene between Cordelia and Angel...well I felt like I was watching siblings make out Sorry, I know for some they are great, I just couldn't get into them as a couple.

                            Now You're Welcome was a whole other story. They got it right, it was well done, it felt natural and even I was moved by their goodbye (not just in the fact of her leaving, but as lovers parting) Why it worked in that one episode for me and no other I can't tell you. I wish I knew what David and Charisma had to say about it because again in my opinion it was very different from everything else they had tried to do with Angel and Cordy as love interests.

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                            • #15
                              I agree that Angel/Cordy felt contrived. I just felt like everyone on screen was telling me how much Angel and Cordy loved each other and belonged together, but I wasn't seeing it. Like Nina, I didn't actually like Angel/Cordy until You're Welcome and AtF.

                              That dream when Spike realized he loved Buffy totally changed the game for me, but Fred and Lorne going on and on about kyrumption and belonging together just wasn't a good introduction. Yeah, I felt that Angel and Cordy loved each other but it was a brother/sister love until everyone started telling them they were perfect for each other. Then it became an 'Angel loves Cordy from afar, oh look how jealous he is of Groo' thing. I don't really understand how some fans who say they never liked Angel on BtVS because of how he acted with Buffy could like the way Angel mooned over Cordelia during Season 3. The closest thing I can relate it to is Spike stalking/mooning over Buffy while she was with Riley, but the difference was that I actually liked those Spike scenes. With Angel, it just didn't work for me.

                              I think the problem with Angel/Cordy for me was that the writers kept playing the angle that Cordy had changed so much, she was such a hero that of course Angel loved her now. And they kept on changing Cordy to be even more saintly. Cordy was a hero who could still be a bitch. The Angel/Cordy unrequited romance removed the bitch!Delia element and that's why I hated it. It felt like Cordy had a personality transplant.
                              Last edited by Emmie; 15-12-08, 06:55 PM.
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                              • #16
                                When was it said on the show that they were in love with each other? I always just assumed they were close friends who sort of ended up having the hots for each other.

                                Cordy not “showing it” in season 3 was the point, right? She didn't consciously realize that she had romantic feelings for Angel. They had been so close as friends for so long that she didn't even know the difference. Wasn't that Groo's whole arc about?

                                Cordy’s feelings for Angel in Season 4 weren't sincere because she wasn’t Cordy.

                                The only time I remember Cordy interacting with Angel after she realized her feelings for him were romantic was in You're Welcome. There were plenty of hints and some sexual tension ala Waiting in the Wings but sexual tension shouldn’t be equated with romance.

                                (There was a hint of sexual tension/attractive between Fred and Angel during the Jasmine arc and I don't see many Angel/Fred 'shippers.)

                                The whole… thing was a lot more obvious to the fans than it was to the characters, especially Cordy. A budding romance between two friends that never got out of that strange awkward phase like back in high school when you were too scared to ask your friend out because you thought it might end up being weird.

                                Angel would not have felt a moment of pure happiness had Buffy showed up in Awakening. Either he wouldn’t have slept with her at all or he would have been so worried about losing his soul that he wouldn’t have been able to feel that moment.
                                "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill

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                                • #17
                                  Going back to the Angel/Cordy dynamic, when Cordy was possessed by Jasmine and Jasmine was in the driver's seat post-Spin The Bottle - does anyone find it weird that none of the characters questioned Cordy's behavior? I found Cordy to be acting a hell'a strange even before she was revealed to be a baddie when she stabbed Lilah. It's sad that all the characters on AtS were unable to differentiate between real!Cordy and Jasmine!Cordy.

                                  Was Jasmine really *that* good at pretending to be Cordy? You'd think the 'what the hell' moment of Cordy screwing Connor would be enough to make people realize that she was possessed. *face palm* The last time real!Cordy significantly interacted with Connor prior to being hijacked by Jasmine was in Season 3 when she's doing the maternal "It's okay, baby, let it go" white light flashy mystical colonic. It makes me think of Giles saying, "We are all deeply stupid" that all of Cordy's friends didn't realize it wasn't her and especially that Angel, who professed to love her and had known her the longest didn't realize it for so long.

                                  To tie this in to the Angel/Cordy romance, if you love someone in a romantic way wouldn't you notice they were acting strange? Riley didn't notice that Buffy was possessed by Faith that one night, but then Faith!Buffy hadn't done something so extremely messed up like go bang Graham while still professing that she loved Riley. Plus Riley had never experienced something so extremely strange and mystical before. Angel switched bodies with the old guy in Carpe Noctem, so he has firsthand knowledge of that strange behavior and knows it's possible.

                                  I just find it sad that Angel accepted that the real Cordy would sleep with Connor, a baby for whom she played the substitute mother. It's a really sad thing to say you love somebody but you don't know them well enough to realize they're acting strange. Maybe it's unfair to judge Angel for lacking in this regard, but he had a whole season around Jasmine!Delia and didn't realize until it was smack in his face that she was the Beastmaster.

                                  In some ways I feel like they forced the Angel/Cordy are in WUV 4 EVUR dynamic just so they could have Cordy go evil and force Angel to kill her in the season finale.
                                  Last edited by Emmie; 15-12-08, 08:32 PM.
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                                  • #18
                                    hawked up: I think your points actually brought up another reason why I didn't enjoy it. The fact that Cordelia seemed to have NO clue that her feelings for Angel were more than platonic. Either Charisma chose to keep showing it that way or I missed the subtle hints where she looked at him as more even if she didn't realize it at the time. It was like "Oh I am in love with Angel...yay me"

                                    Waiting in the Wings was a better make out scene to me than when they dreamed slept together but again Cordy seems like it is JUST the circumstance and I kept waiting to see her see him as something else than a friend...it never happened for me as a viewer.

                                    I saw glimpses from David but even then it felt like, okay the script tells me to be jealous or look a little lustful at her and so I will do that.

                                    I felt Angel and Buffy's attraction and love, I felt Spike and Buffy's attraction, hell I felt more in that one scene of Fred and Angel having to kiss to hide than anything Cordelia and Angel did until You're Welcome.

                                    Again it is only my interpretation on what I saw on screen and to be completely honest I was wigged out on the idea of them from the beginning so I know that didn't help. But they sold me in You're Welcome (I still wasn't a big fan) but I believed it, I felt as a fan of the show that they were in love and my heart broke for them.

                                    Emmie also brings up wonderful points about Cordelia's personality change...which I do believe probably hindered me cheering them on even more. There was just too much change to her and then everyone pushing down the audience throats that they were a destined and fabulous couple and I was left praying to see something else.

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Emmie View Post
                                      Going back to the Angel/Cordy dynamic, when Cordy was possessed by Jasmine and Jasmine was in the driver's seat post-Spin The Bottle - does anyone find it weird that none of the characters questioned Cordy's behavior? I found Cordy to be acting a hell'a strange even before she was revealed to be a baddie when she stabbed Lilah. It's sad that all the characters on AtS were unable to differentiate between real!Cordy and Jasmine!Cordy.

                                      Was Jasmine really *that* good at pretending to be Cordy? You'd think the 'what the hell' moment of Cordy screwing Connor would be enough to make people realize that she was possessed. *face palm* The last time real!Cordy significantly interacted with Connor prior to being hijacked by Jasmine was in Season 3 when she's doing the maternal "It's okay, baby, let it go" white light flashy mystical colonic. It makes me think of Giles saying, "We are all deeply stupid" that all of Cordy's friends didn't realize it wasn't her and especially that Angel, who professed to love her and had known her the longest didn't realize it for so long.

                                      To tie this in to the Angel/Cordy romance, if you love someone in a romantic way wouldn't you notice they were acting strange? Riley didn't notice that Buffy was possessed by Faith that one night, but then Faith!Buffy hadn't done something so extremely messed up like go bang Graham while still professing that she loved Riley. Plus Riley had never experienced something so extremely strange and mystical before. Angel switched bodies with the old guy in Carpe Noctem, so he has firsthand knowledge of that strange behavior and knows it's possible.

                                      I just find it sad that Angel accepted that the real Cordy would sleep with Connor, a baby for whom she played the substitute mother. It's a really sad thing to say you love somebody but you don't know them well enough to realize they're acting strange. Maybe it's unfair to judge Angel for lacking in this regard, but he had a whole season around Jasmine!Delia and didn't realize until it was smack in his face that she was the Beastmaster.

                                      In some ways I feel like they forced the Angel/Cordy are in WUV 4 EVUR dynamic just so they could have Cordy go evil and force Angel to kill her in the season finale.
                                      Maybe they blamed her time in heaven for her weird behavior? But that's probably nothing more than a fanwank.

                                      And yes, I believe that was the idea, putting Angel in the 'Becoming' situation but only with him as the 'good guy' this time. The original plan was Cordelia being evil because she got torn out of hell. The evil!Jasmine!Cordelia storyline wasn't all that, but at least Cordelia didn't turn out being evil.

                                      At least that's what I did read on other boards.

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Nina View Post

                                        And yes, I believe that was the idea, putting Angel in the 'Becoming' situation but only with him as the 'good guy' this time. The original plan was Cordelia being evil because she got torn out of hell. The evil!Jasmine!Cordelia storyline wasn't all that, but at least Cordelia didn't turn out being evil.
                                        I think the original idea was that Cordelia would be possessed by Jasmine but wouldn't give birth to herself. The pregnancy thing was added when Carpenter threw the curveball that she was pregnant and the writers scrambled to make that work in the story. So originally Angel would have had the final showdown with possessed Cordelia. At least that's what I remember being discussed. Not really sure who the source is for this information.
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