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  • Eve

    I've been rewatching season 5 of Angel and I forgot how notbad it was. Well near the end when Spike is more of a supporting charactera nd not the main character. Uh, anyways. I was rewatching and I forgot how much I loved Eve.

    I recall while discussing the season while it was airing alot of people were really harsh on Eve. Alot of people wanted Lilah to return rather then having Eve, but I think having Eve added something new. They knew nothing about her while they new EVERYTHING about Lilah, that it just wouldn't have added that same mystery.

    She was also just well written. Her interaction with Lindsay was a great twist and in the end I really did feel sorry for her character. All she wanted was to live with Lindsay, have a life with him, but she will always be in fear/on the run of W&H.

    Alot of people assumed she dies at the end of season 5, but I have faith that she still lives.

  • #2
    Dude, Season 5 is probably my favorite season! If I'm going to watch an Angel episode I'll most likely break out the Season 5 DVDs.

    Anywayz, I liked Eve a lot. She did add much greatness to the show, and her partnership with Lindsay was both cute and hardcore. I always felt very sorry for her at the end when she finds out that Lindsay has been killed. She really did love the bastard.

    Still, it would have been awesome to have Lilah. she was one of my favorite characters, and her relationship with Wes is probably my OTP for Angel. The interesting Wes/Fred/Lilah dynamic that was developing in Season 4 before Lilah was killed could have continued and...imagine a Wes/Illyria/Lilah dynamic!

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    • #3
      I'm not a fan of season 5, give me seasons 3 or 4 any day, but I rewatched season 5 recently and I have to agree that I think Eve wasn't as annoying as she could have been, I definitely preferred Lilah because she was an amazing character, but Eve was definitely good in terms of storytelling and enigma.

      The introduction of her character definitely fits in with the feel of season 5 where everything is completely new, especially for Angel, and how he has to adjust to it, it would've been too easy if Lilah had been there, but with Eve had had to trust her, find out about her, but at the same time not trust anybody.

      I'm in two minds about the Eve/Lindsey relationship, I'm not totally sure Lindsey loved her, but I believe she loved him and so it was pretty hard not to feel sympathy toward her when she found that Lindsey had been killed, "Go where," is probably one of my favourite quotes from her, not because it's highly informative, but because of how hopeless she sounds.

      Spoiler:
      As for whether she's still alive or not, it's implied in ATF (don't know whether you follow them as being canon or not but,) that she's dead, the Senior Partners say something when torturing Wesley about something they say about reanimating Lindsey or Eve's corpses and judging from how she didn't look like she was going anywhere at the end of NFA.
      sigpic

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      • #4
        I absolutely loved Eve! And like Matt i also had the feeling that Lindsey didn't really love her, but used her... I was actually going to start a topic on that...
        What? You?ve taught a psycho killer demon how to be human by making him watch Sex and the City?

        1.02 Never been kissed OUT NOW/ 1.03 Damned by the bell COMING SOON

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        • #5
          I think Lindsey loved her. Would he have thrown her to the side for power? Sure, but he would have been lament to do so. I sort of understand the Lilah and Eve comparisons because she is a manipulative female who works for Wolfram & Hart, but they have completely different positions within the company and are totally different characters with their own personal arcs. So I don’t understand the “either/or” thing most fans seem to feel. I think Lilah was the best Big Bad on either show (though some people would argue that she was a Big Bad at all, which I don’t understand) but I wouldn’t have wanted her back in Season 5. Her story ran its course. Eve on the other hand, I really liked and I think has a lot more story to go in the future. Also, I don’t think she is dead, though she is still under the power of Wolfram & Hart. Brian Lynch insists that it isn’t Eve pretending to be Fred in the Wesley First Night story, but I still think it is and will think that until it is revealed that she was actually doing something else at the time.
          "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill

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          • #6
            Season 5 is actually my favourite season of Angel.

            Personally I thought it was good to bring in someone new as a conduit, because Eve had a specific purpose (trying to double-cross the senior partners), which would not have worked so well with Zombie Lilah/Ghost Lilah or whatever. Besides, we knew Lilah already, while this new character was a mystery and remained one for some time.
            Sin is what I feast upon
            I'm forging my crematorium
            Your tomb is waiting here for you
            Welcome to my ritual

            -Judas Priest, Death

            Comment


            • #7
              Well near the end when Spike is more of a supporting character and not the main character.
              Don't think he was ever the 'main' but anyhoo, moving rapidly on...

              I personally couldn't stick Eve. I thought the poor old actress was well out of her depth and wasn't a very good actor. She didn't have a fraction of the magnificent presence that Lilah's character had.

              Lord only knows why they chose her. For me at least she looked like a child and not a grown women too, which didn't help me see her as an attractive proposition for Lindsey either sadly.
              Last edited by sueworld; 01-12-08, 10:01 PM.

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              • #8
                I didn't like Eve either. The only redeeming factor for bad girls with a baby voice, is legendary cruelty. I wish that she was cruel, but I'm afraid that she never was anything else than annoying. All the mean things she did were part of Lindsay's plan.

                Her lowpoint was in 'Life of the Party' when Angel is showering and she gives him no privacy at all.

                "Hi. Uh, the door was open. Well, unlocked. Well... I had a key. So, uh, wow. You take a long shower for a guy. Were we having some gentlemen's time? I mean, I understand. You're running the whole circus now, a lot of pressure, especially with your hands-on policy. No pun intended. I'm sure you could use a release."

                In that whole scene Angel is naked and she is sitting there making assumptions that would make anybody uncomfortable.

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                • #9
                  I didn't like Eve. She acted like a little girl who was playing dressup as an adult. All she had was the power of someone else (W&H) and the motivations of someone else (Lindsey). She was a complete pawn but was empty headed enough to not realize it.

                  I LOVE LOVE LOVED when Cordelia put Eve in her place. Eve was a spoiled brat, while Cordelia and Lilah were empowered women.

                  I wish that Lilah had been the liaison. I really missed her in S5. And I would have preferred Lilah to Lindsey's return. Not to mention his reason for return was a stretch. I liked how Lindsey left town with a grasp on his own soul and humanity in S2.

                  Back to Eve. She was a poor substitute for either Cordelia or Lilah's strong, smart, and witty characters. I would have been more happy if a little girl like in the White Room had been the liaison. Much creepier and less annoying.

                  Lydia made the punch!

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                  • #10
                    Yes, Lilah has a lot more screen presence and character, but I think her having character would make her a bad liaison, from the Senior Partners' perspective. What they want is a puppet, and Eve seems to be one. Even they don't expect her to be anything else.
                    The more surprising it is to see her with an agenda of her own (which then turns out not to be her own, but never mind).

                    I personally didn't like the character, but I thought she was useful the way she was.
                    Sin is what I feast upon
                    I'm forging my crematorium
                    Your tomb is waiting here for you
                    Welcome to my ritual

                    -Judas Priest, Death

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Why does everyone hate eve? I think she was great, she was mysterious and was one of the reasons season 5 was so great.
                      What? You?ve taught a psycho killer demon how to be human by making him watch Sex and the City?

                      1.02 Never been kissed OUT NOW/ 1.03 Damned by the bell COMING SOON

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by cliomiao View Post
                        Why does everyone hate eve? I think she was great, she was mysterious and was one of the reasons season 5 was so great.
                        I don't understand your comment. Of the ten posters in here, 6 say they like Eve, while only 4 have given reasons why they don't like Eve.

                        Feel free to disagree with anyone's arguments of why they don't like Eve, but reasons have been given. I'm sure people would rather go into further detail if you wanted to discuss their reasons than just have their posts ignored.

                        I also want to point out that some excellent reasons have been given as to why Eve was necessary instead of Lilah. There is no way she and Lindsey would have ever teamed up. As well as, as a zombie/ghost, Lilah may not have been able to conspire against W&H.

                        Lydia made the punch!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ehlwyen View Post
                          I didn't like Eve. She acted like a little girl who was playing dressup as an adult. All she had was the power of someone else (W&H) and the motivations of someone else (Lindsey). She was a complete pawn but was empty headed enough to not realize it.
                          That is part of the reason I liked Eve, cause she was trying so hard to be adult and stand up to Angel (and at times she kinda did, but then in others she really didn't...) I really wish they would have redeemed her and HAD they gotten a true season 6, have her return and with her own motives.

                          I wish that Lilah had been the liaison. I really missed her in S5. And I would have preferred Lilah to Lindsey's return. Not to mention his reason for return was a stretch. I liked how Lindsey left town with a grasp on his own soul and humanity in S2.
                          My biggest issue with Lilah being liaison would be the weirdness with Fred and Wesley. Wes would still be kinda gaga for Lilah and trying to save her... Lindsey's return was... diffrent. It fit with the idea of the last season (even though they didn't know it was the last season). I was never a Lindsey fan, but the idea of him going around as Doyle and tricking Spike brought some great scenes in "You're Welcome", though I wish Cordelia would have gotten a punch at him cause she was just useless in the fight between Lindsey and Angel...

                          Back to Eve. She was a poor substitute for either Cordelia or Lilah's strong, smart, and witty characters. I would have been more happy if a little girl like in the White Room had been the liaison. Much creepier and less annoying.
                          I really do think Eve had her moments. She never was ment to be Cordelia or Lilah, and for what she was given I think the character was pretty well done and was really able to show the poor little girl she was inside. That said, if I had the choice I would have rathered Cordelia in the season over Eve. But that is just a given.

                          Originally posted by Bloodsucker View Post
                          I personally didn't like the character, but I thought she was useful the way she was.
                          Yes, thank you ^_^ I really think her character would have benifited with some more storyline for herself and not Eve/Lindsey or Eve/Wolfram & Hart. For a while I suspected Eve was the child of a Senior Partner (which would have been a cool twist!) Seeing her a little bit like Elle from Heroes would have been neat.

                          Originally posted by cliomiao View Post
                          Why does everyone hate eve? I think she was great, she was mysterious and was one of the reasons season 5 was so great.
                          No one is saying they hate Eve, just that she wasn't a great character. I don'tthink she was what made season 5. If anything Illyria (for awhile) really helped give season 5 life (and Harmony was pretty sweet!). Eve was never OMGEVEISSUPERAWSOME!!11!1, but defenitly an interesting character.

                          Originally posted by Ehlwyen View Post
                          I also want to point out that some excellent reasons have been given as to why Eve was necessary instead of Lilah. There is no way she and Lindsey would have ever teamed up. As well as, as a zombie/ghost, Lilah may not have been able to conspire against W&H.
                          Exactly. Had Lilah and Lindsey actually teamed up I am sure fans would have shut off their TVs. And yeah Lilah would have been a crappy puppet character that fans would hate. Everyone wants badass Lilah back, but as the liason she would be very similar to Eve, but just more mature and wittier.

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                          • #14
                            I know that not everyone hates eve but there had been three posts saying Eve sucks. And i really do think that season 5 wouldn't have been as good without her.. even though she's no illyria or harmony (yes i love harmony! I thought i was the only one, since i read a lot of "Harmony's annoying" discussions")
                            What? You?ve taught a psycho killer demon how to be human by making him watch Sex and the City?

                            1.02 Never been kissed OUT NOW/ 1.03 Damned by the bell COMING SOON

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by cliomiao View Post
                              I know that not everyone hates eve but there had been three posts saying Eve sucks. And i really do think that season 5 wouldn't have been as good without her.. even though she's no illyria or harmony (yes i love harmony! I thought i was the only one, since i read a lot of "Harmony's annoying" discussions")
                              No one is saying she "sucks" it is just simply a dislike. Like personally I can't stand Spike, he doesn't suck. His character was just over used and just became annoying...

                              Off topic - HARMONY!!! I think she was an amazing addition to season 5, she was very Cordelia Chase season 1 and I loved it.

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                              • #16
                                His character was just over used and just became annoying...
                                So you keep telling us love.

                                I loved Harmony to. A cracking little character.

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by sueworld View Post
                                  So you keep telling us love.

                                  I loved Harmony to. A cracking little character.
                                  Sorry! I can truthly say that Spike in season 2-4 was a pretty awsome character and for awhile in season 2 he and Dru were my favorite.

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                                  • #18
                                    cliomiao - Yep, nobody said Eve sucks or that he/she hates her. People just stated why they liked or disliked her. As far as I can see, you are the only one who doesn't really give a reason for your opinion on her, and yet you protest about the others...


                                    The whole point of the liaison, it seems to me, is not to have too much character, so to say, from the Senior Partners' perspective. They clearly underestimate Eve (which is an easy mistake at first and also at least second glance). When you look at Hamilton, that one is but a purpose-fulfiller too.
                                    They used Lilah merely because of Wesley, otherwise she would be too strong-minded and likely to scheme to be of use in such a position.


                                    (As for liking and disliking - I personally love Angel and Spike throughout the series, but don't like Lilah, for example. That doesn't mean she is not a well-rounded and intriguing character, though.)
                                    Sin is what I feast upon
                                    I'm forging my crematorium
                                    Your tomb is waiting here for you
                                    Welcome to my ritual

                                    -Judas Priest, Death

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I liked Eve, and I liked seeing her with Angel. I remember the scene in the end of "Conviction" when she talks about Connor and man, the tension was great, it almost felt like Angel wanted to rip her throat out. She was an interesting character, she never flinched, she was evil and she liked it. Just like Cordy described her was great: Lilah Junior.

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