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Angel: After the Fall #14

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  • Angel: After the Fall #14

    Out this Wednesday! And again, let's start with a 5-page preview:


    Ahhhhhhh! I want more!

    I loved what Groo named his pegasus! Actually, I love Groo in general in After the Fall, even though I didn't like him all that much in the televised series. Also, great Spike voice, very in-character.

    Still not quite sure what's Gunn's plan for Illyria, but I think that's the point. For the moment, I just love seeing them interact. As much as I adore Season 5 of Angel, it had quite a few wrongs that Angel: After the Fall is currently righting, and lack of Gunn-Illyria interaction is one of them.

    (set made by Francy for me)

  • #2

    I can't wait, this looks good!

    Wow, another Cordelia. I had some trouble understanding Groo, but I blame my crappy English. I love Groo when he is around for a couple of panels.

    Spike was very well written, not only his lines but also his behavior. Kuddos for Brian. And another reason to like the comics; Connor is able to carry Angel. I can't imagine Vincent Kartheiser walking around with David Boreanaz.

    So Gunn wants to use Illyria timeslips. And I think that he planned to free Illyria from Fred's body to increase her power. I would love to see what happens there, it's interesting to see those former good guys in this state. And Illyria caring about the dragon was nice.

    I actually hoped that the preview would show us how they save Angel, but I guess that we've to wait some days for that. I love the Angel voice over, Angel has a very typical style of thinking/talking that I like a lot as voice over.

    yeah, I'm done talking now.


    • #3
      So awesome! I never liked Groo all that much on the show, but I'm loving every line he has in the comics. I hope he joins Team Angel for Aftermath.

      Spike was spot on, and I loved how Angel knows Spike so well. "Spider told me I was just being catty!" If I didn't already like Spider/Spike that line would have won me over.

      Can't wait to get my hands on this tomorrow. I really hope I get the Illyria cover.

      Instead of incense (wtf?) Spike should have included a joint in his requests for something to smoke. It makes tons more sense, and it much funnier.


      • #4
        The voice in the second panel of the second page is Groo right? I'm confused because it looks like one of Spike's girls gets killed.


        Originally posted by Stephen Mooney
        I can! The speech balloon is coming from the wrong character, probably my fault. It's supposed to be a teeny groo on his steed flying over the hotel and being surrounded by the black dragons that says it, but it's mistakingly eminating from the miscellaneous demon character who's stabbing one of the Spikettes in the foreground of the panel. Sorry bout the confusion!
        (I love his signature "they talk about me in chatty rooms" )


        And Brian makes me nervous with posts like this one;
        Originally posted by Brian lynch over on the IDW boards
        Big stuff happens, and I want to know if people are leaning towards "oh no he didn't" or "Oh man that's epic".

        I really hope that I will like it, because until now I loved almost every issue and the story and I would be sad if something happens that will destroy the story for me.
        Last edited by Nina; 19-11-08, 11:49 AM.


        • #5
          Originally posted by Nina View Post
          (I love his signature "they talk about me in chatty rooms" )
          The banner was actually made by Slayalive member Wyndam as a present to Mooney, but the Angel quote was all Mooney. It's apparently one of his favorite funny moments in the show.

          By the way, I love how wonderfully nice he is about this - "Sorry about the confusion!". Very classy and generous of him to just say, 'my mistake, sorry guys'. All told, Stephen Mooney is just awesome, his art and the guy himself. It's that funny phenomenon in the Whedonverse where you become a fan of the creators at all levels. Great guy.

          Banner Set by thedothatgirl


          • #6
            Originally posted by Emmie View Post
            The banner was actually made by Slayalive member Wyndam as a present to Mooney, but the Angel quote was all Mooney. It's apparently one of his favorite funny moments in the show.

            By the way, I love how wonderfully nice he is about this - "Sorry about the confusion!". Very classy and generous of him to just say, 'my mistake, sorry guys'. All told, Stephen Mooney is just awesome, his art and the guy himself. It's that funny phenomenon in the Whedonverse where you become a fan of the creators at all levels. Great guy.
            Yeah, he seems like a great guy. And if I saw it right, a great guy who celebrates his birthday today. So; congrats Stephen!

            So issue 14 is out, I can't wait to read to issue. Of course I already read all the spoilers I could find *shakes head*, still reading the issue is always the best part.
            Last edited by Nina; 20-11-08, 12:09 AM.


            • #7


              Hi, I'm Chris.. in case you don't recognize me. I was a strong participating member of BuffyWorld into BuffyForums for a long time. I got caught up with things, and got addicted to the world of the forum.. and decided to take a break. I came back for a few momentary lapses, and even peaked my head in once or twice after that.. but I have not posted for a very, very long time now. However, I still have been following this site and look at it almost every day. Bar, it's solely for season 8 and After the Fall, nonetheless.. I love the discussions that get talked about here, and it's my easiest way for dates and information about the continued series' .

              However, upon finishing "After the Fall: Issue 15," I realized something. This issue is so friggin' good, that I will have to at least post one more time, in order to stress how amazing this issue was.

              Wow, first of all.. I have to say that this has to be without a doubt THE best issue written of any of the two continued series. The art, the scenes, the story, the dialogue, everything was keen and perfectly written, and fell in piece exactly where they should have. The climactic ending was absolutely perfect, and Brian did something that got himself out of the worst situation possible: He pleased the worriers of Angel becoming a vampire, and pleased the worriers of a simple resurrection at the same time. His use of the "jigsaw falling into place" effect worked astonishingly.. After reading it again, the hints at the beginning like "they always want him," are some of the best foreshadowing in the entire series. I would actually put this issue up there in my top 10 Angel episodes, and although it is a comic, I am not afraid to say that it beats out almost 90% of the televised portion of the series. I initially was upset about the idea that Illyria could become the enemy, since I love the character so much.. but after reading how it happened.. it worked perfectly. She tried to be evil, and she didn't fit in. She tried to be Fred, and she didn't fit in. She is absolutely sick of existence. I think the reason I love this issue so much is because I feel like this is "EXACTLY" what would have happened if there was a movie or a sixth season, to the tee. The facial expressions were amazing too.. so many good ones, to Gunn's final reaction, to Spike's vamp face. I literally felt like I was watching the show in fact, almost to the point where I couldn't believe a comic could be this well written. Brian Lynch, I commend you on your amazing work so far, especially with this very special issue.

              Favorite moments:

              - I have to love Angel's face upon walking towards Gunn with a stake, and his quote before, "Brilliant. Take a break from killing one friend to figure out how to kill another."

              - Gunn's reaction at the end of the issue. Man, he really has become quite the misanthrope I might say. He just can't stand living knowing he is a vampire and the fact that his best friend had "left him to die." Very Willow season-sixish', except a lot more selfish.

              - The bringing back of George, see guys? He really did have a purpose!!

              - The white space.

              - How badass was Illyria's transformation? I mean, we're talking Mayor "Graduation," times like 10!

              P.S.- Anyone wanna bet Brian threw in Angel's "Once again, Spike and I have the same idea-- --at the same time" quote to save Spike lovers' asses? Thank you so much Brian!!!
              Last edited by Nostalgia; 20-11-08, 04:40 AM.

              -Sig by BlasterBoy-


              • #8
                Well I've read it, and I wasn't going to 'put my two pennies worth in' until the end of this series, but...
                I felt I just had to step in at this point and say I'm really, really surprised that Spike would offered to vamp Angel like that.

                In fact I'm astonished that nobody's picked up on this so far in their reviews as it's so out of character. Especially after the events of Spike After the Fall. Seeing Spikes scenes in this you'd think that none of that had ever happened, or that he had been too stupid to have learnt from it.

                Even under their 'dire' circumstances I'm afraid I don't think Spike would even suggest doing something like that. Spike above all people would know what that meant. Look at Spikes history with his mother, and lord of all people saying that 'fighting alongside Angelus wasn't so bad as long as you watch your back" What?!! Is he serious?

                I know that this isn't Spikes comic, so I was prepared to see him stuck firmly back into 'annoying/smug/comedy relief mode', but after Spike After the Fall, it still felt like waste of a character really.

                So poor old Fred really is dead then? Thats a shame.

                Once again it was Gunn that stole the 'show' for me. Brian writes him extremely well and all his 'scenes' were riveting. I'm looking forward to seeing how they finish his arc and the story in general.

                I'll have to go back and read it all again now.


                • #9
                  I've not read the issue yet, but it is possible that;

                  Spike was panicking? That he prefers to have Angelus back than lose Angel forever?


                  • #10
                    Spikes been through worse. I can't see him panicking over this. Spike as a souled vamp would understand more then anyone else what it would mean to contemplate doing something like that. To offer it up so readily seems incredibly out of character to me at least.

                    It seems like the Spike from After the Fall has been replaced with his stupider half brother.


                    • #11
                      I'm not sure;

                      I can see how losing Angel must be a awful thing for Spike. Angel is maybe not his favourite person in the world, but he really important for Spike. I always believed that you could see Spike & Angel as brothers, they annoy eachother but nobody else should touch the other. And in that light; Angel was almost dead and Spike's plan to save him didn't work (I assume that he sugested it after they found out that the room didn't work?), I can see him sugesting it in the moment because he couldn't find another way to keep Angel in this world. Maybe it wasn't even a real idea, more a desperate attemped to do or think about something.

                      But of course I should read it first before I can say much about this. :P Maybe I picture it totally wrong, I'll come back on this issue when I did read it.


                      • #12
                        Here's my review!

                        And the verdict iiiiis: "Oh man, that's epic". (IDW regulars will get the reference.)

                        I can only imagine how much more epic the ending would have been if we hadn't gotten those spoilery covers with Illyria's true form months back... but even so, there's a silver lining to our pre-spoiled condition, which is that the sheer originality of the storyline shines through. I browse all the main Buffy forums (and a few minor ones), so I'd heard speculation after speculation based on the aforementioned covers -- Fred would be restored to her body through the Resurrection Room and inadvertently release Illyria, Wesley had made an agreement about Fred with the Senior Partners that would come to fruition here, the cast would have to make a choice between Illyria and Fred, etc. -- and they were all off the mark. Needless to say I like Brian's version better, not least because it gave us one of the best Wesley/Illyria scenes in canon...

                        "There you are."
                        "Fred -"
                        "I tried, Wesley. I tried to be."
                        "I know you did."
                        "I don't think... I don't think she's here."

                        It's no secret that the Wesley/Illyria relationship tugs at my heartstrings like no other Buffyverse 'ship save Spike/Buffy... and I actually got a little teary here, which is very rare for me. (Brian, you weren't kidding when you said that Wesley and Illyria had more Big Moments to come.) I'm extremely glad that the Spike: After the Fall Issue #4 revelation about Illyria still holds true, and that it was addressed in an equally (if not more) emotional scene here. That these Fred-centric time-skips were a conscious attempt on Illyria's part to recapture what Fred had with Wesley, and perhaps even revive him, is a very organic development of her covert jealousy and longing in Season 5 of Angel, and the perfect icing to my recent Wesley/Illyria marathon. Even non-fans have to acknowledge that this takes Illyria's already-complex characterization to a new, higher level (and, by doing so, takes the plot to a new, higher level). This ups the stakes.

                        I can only say "thank you". The only complaint anyone can have about the Wesley/Illyria moment is that it should have been longer.

                        Now, the payoff of that scene suffers a lot from the colourist's insistent pinks and reds, but ignoring that, I'm rather fond of the chaotic, almost surrealistic feel of it all. ("Do you see?!" -- "See - what?") It felt right for the magnitude of the event. Also happy that Betta George is revealed to be more than a "filler" character, for realsies. I'll be interested to see what ammo the mandatory haters will find for their comments now. (I do hope the pacing in the remaining issues won't be as fast as it was in the final scene of this issue, though. It worked well as a one-time thing, but it has the potential of getting annoying, if used more.)

                        Another highlight of this issue was Spike learning about the Shanshu (shock, nervousness and jealousy all wrapped up in Lynch-quality dialogue and body language), as well as the Gunn/Illyria sequence. Illyria and Gunn have displayed the most interesting changes in the series so far, in my eyes, and that's evident in the panels they share here. Was particularly moved by Illyria's switch from her Fred-mannerisms to her usual self's honor and cold pride ("I enjoyed sparring with that dragon. It came close to being an equal"), Gunn's little speech about masks (his "teeth and Klingon brow mask" versus Illyria's Fred-mask, what a way to put it), and his breath in the time-skip. Another thing that was interesting to me is that he seems to harbour a resentment towards Angel's "Chosen One" title ("They want... well, they want who they always want. The one everybody always wants") -- reminded me of Spike for a second there, with his decades under Angel's shadow and his underdog status re: Shanshu and Buffy alike.

                        I've come to expect this level of awesomeness from Brian by now, but I was surprised how much I loved Mooney's art in this issue. Is he getting better, or am I getting more used to his style? The only thing I didn't like was his uniform rendition of the conduits (and the colourist is partly to blame for that, too). Still, you can't argue with panels like "I don't want to hear it! ..." (Spike), "I need Illyria" (Gunn), "Her memories haunt me" (Wesley/Illyria-as-Fred), "Charles tried to bring out ..." (Wesley), "That'll work" (Gunn).

                        Where do we go from here?

                        No idea, but I at least hope that Illyria survives, that there are no easy "saves" like a pre-Not Fade Away reset, that everything comes with a price, that Wesley and Illyria get more interaction (and I'll join the LiveJournal chorus in wishing for a kiss), that the next issues cut down on the spelling/grammar errors, and that the universe doesn't go kablooie.

                        Rating: 8.5/10 (might be my third favourite After the Fall issue, after Issue 4 of Spike: After the Fall and Issue 12 of Angel: After the Fall)

                        (set made by Francy for me)


                        • #13
                          Another highlight of this issue was Spike learning about the Shanshu (shock, nervousness and jealousy all wrapped up in Lynch-quality dialogue and body language),
                          I have to say in my eyes he came across as a complete self involved tit in most of his reaction scenes. But maybe thats what they were after.

                          After saying that I thought his first reaction scene to Angels 'condition' rang true. Pity the rest didn't.
                          Last edited by sueworld; 20-11-08, 03:13 PM.


                          • #14
                            Really? I thought you said you loved his reaction, when you first read it in the preview.

                            (set made by Francy for me)


                            • #15
                              Read it again. I've altered my post. I first thought you were talking about the later scenes. My bad.


                              • #16
                                If you're talking about his Room of Resurrection scene, I kind of agree. (Although I didn't let it affect my enjoyment of the issue, since Spike had a small role in it, anyway.)

                                (set made by Francy for me)


                                • #17
                                  Yes I was and it did for me at least.


                                  • #18
                                    Like I said, if we're going to say it's out-of-character for Spike, we have to say it's out of character for Angel.

                                    Don't forget what Angel is thinking as Spike speaks and vamps out..

                                    "Once again, Spike and I have the same idea-- --at the same time"
                                    That right there tells us that Angel wanted Spike to vamp him as well, or at least was considering it. Contrary to what Connor believed, and contrary to what we would believe.
                                    Originally Posted by sueworld
                                    I have to say in my eyes he came across as a complete self involved tit in most of his reaction scenes. But maybe thats what they were after.
                                    I love Spike to death, but when has he not been a self-involved tit in After the Fall? Sure he's learned the importance of saving lives.. but he's still the comic relief of the series. This is old news, imo.

                                    -Sig by BlasterBoy-


                                    • #19
                                      I love Spike to death, but when has he not been a self-involved tit in After the Fall?
                                      Oh don't get me wrong, Spike can be a right twit sometime, but not that big an arse.

                                      Spike did go through character development in both the series and in Spike After the Fall. In this edition you'd never had guessed that.


                                      • #20
                                        "Quite frankly I think it's because I'm special. The thrice-savior." - Spike in After the Fall #14
                                        Going with the "self-involved twit" description, this declaration surprises me in light of the ending of Spike: After the Fall. All of Spike's character development seemed to suggest (I *thought* I had learned a great lesson) that Spike's bravado of being a hero to rival Angel and Buffy had been slapped down by his epic failure.
                                        All the people he tried to save and his failure to properly guide Illyria which led to Jerry's death = epic fail. The grim ending with Spike swearing off "no sodding attachments" spoke to me that he was bitter and hurting about the hero-mantle he tried to wear.

                                        Now for him to cavalierly spout this ego-trip (in light of said EPIC FAILURE) while Angel is busy dying (still) and in incredible pain - yeah, self-involved twit. I just feel like it would have been okay, rather appropriate, for Spike to be grave and serious in this moment. He's not always the comic relief. Spike is often the guy who raises the mirror, calls people out on their failures or bad decisions.

                                        I know both Sue and Enisy still are on-board with the first Spike scene, but this is where I started to get the inkling that Spike was playing in the shallow end of the pool. Regarding the "shock, nervousness and jealousy" reaction, the shock and nervousness are valid reactions to Spike learning this, and jealousy is always connected to any discussion with the shanshu. I still think that Spike (who I view as incredibly perceptive about irony), would have clued into that almost immediately - 'Angel finally got to be human and look what it got him, an excruciating death' perception. I feel like Spike didn't get to be deep or perceptive, just mostly reactionary in his emotions - while still focused on the goal of getting Angel downstairs.

                                        It makes me wonder if Angel is on scene, does Spike always become the goof? Maybe I'm missing something where Spike is showing deeper emotions and thoughts and I'm open to anyone pointing that out - with quotes and a diagram so I can understand it.

                                        During AtS, when Spike reverts to a 12-year old in Angel's presence, Angel is right there with him. I'm thinking 'Cavemen vs. Astronauts' argument here. But it seems now while Spike regresses at times, Angel is still keeping his cool. I'm missing the moments where Angel indulges his jealousy in a petulant way - "Everybody's got a soul now", "It looks like Spike's their new champion" and "It's not about what *I* want!"

                                        Again, I'm guessing this might be an unpopular view. I've been a bit reluctant to even post about this since it seems so against what everyone else feels. If you disagree, please respond and explain why. Some examples or a re-definition of perspective would be appreciated.
                                        Last edited by Emmie; 20-11-08, 10:51 PM.

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