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Still chewing on that contract thing!

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  • Still chewing on that contract thing!

    Yes I know they signed contracts. Please someone, Bryan, anyone tell me why would they be so stupid? Ok, Wesley maybe, Gunn, possibly but Fred? Were they manipulated by the Senior Partners so they didn't realize about the perpetuity clause? Even if they each made their own decision why would Angel let his people damn themselves? He is not the kind of champion to stand by and let close friends send themselves to hell!!!

  • #2
    This was my one of my biggest qualms with the first issue and what put me off continuing reading until recently. They had dead Lilah dancing around them the same day they signed the contracts and Angel definitely would've warned them to check for that. The only semi-plausible fanwank I can come up with is the SP using the Connor memory spell as a window to confuse them or make them forget about the perpetuity clause. Even so, it's pretty far-fetched.

    Interestingly, this doesn't bode well for Lorne and Gunn. We don't know if the fact Gunn's a vampire would delay the perpetuity clause or if he's already toasting it up in Hell. Fred, on the other hand, seems to have escaped the clause by having her soul destroyed by Illyria and surviving as a remnant persona.

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    • #3
      Another thing-remember right before You're Welcome, when Angel decided to walk away from Wolfram and Hart, Wesley gave his typical I'll follow you anywhere look, Gunn warned that they wouldn't be allowed to walk away, and Fred was like HUH? are we prisoners or something? Doesn't sound like someone who remembers signing a perpetuity clause. Or Wesley and Fred singing you are my sunshine, like they were already to buy a little house and raise little rogue demon hunters-not what you do when you are expecting to serve an evil law firm for eternity. Angel seemed to think the mind wipe absolved Wesley of all that Connor guilt and restored him back to the team, a kind action on Angel's part for his friend, not ok, now you can be happy, later you can fry in hell. And Spike saying Fred knew what she signed up for, and Angel looking thoughtful, but did she really know?

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      • #4
        I refuse to believe that Angel signed up his friends for this. And I doubt that they would be okay to be signed up without one look at the contract.

        Also, if Angel could sign for all of them ... why would W&H persuade the others if Angel was all they needed? I think that the plot failed to show us why Wesley and Fred would do it, but I do think that they signed their own contract. It wouldn't make sense is Angel could sign for all, he didn't own them. The could stand up and leave, but they didn't.

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        • #5
          I agree with Nina. Why would Wolfram and Hart go to all the trouble of "dividing and conquering" each of them, if they just needed to make Angel sign for the lot of them? And it's not the impression the other characters got either. Gunn makes it clear that he's taking the deal, with or without the others (including Angel.)

          But the whole idea is riddled with goofs. If Wesley, Lilah and Holland Manners all signed the same contract to be used after death, why didn’t wasn’t Fred used when she died? Why wasn’t Gunn used when he became a vampire? Ect. From what was said on the show, the soul's gone, which means Gunn's gone, left with a demon with Gunn's memories and feelings. So Gunn could be used, Fred could have been used.. so why weren't they?

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          • #6
            Maybe because they weren't needed? Or maybe the animated body is a problem in both cases? Lilah had her own body back. And wasn't Fred's soul destroyed in AHitW? It's the soul they sold, but something that's destroyed can't be used again.

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            • #7
              Yeah I agree about Fred's soul being destroyed, good call. Though in saying that, I would think Wolfram and Hart would be the one organisation who has the power to get it back regardless.

              But yeah, I get your point. The whole storylines' still a little clumsy in my opinion though, because there's no way Angel would do that to his friends, and surley Wes isn't so stupid to sign without reading the fine print?

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              • #8
                So it's pretty clear from the episodes that they each signed their own individual contracts. It's pretty definite that Angel wouldn't doom his friends to eternal damnation, even in exchange for the RetConnor spell. If Connor did self destruct and die he would have a (somewhat slim) chance to go to heaven (or the equivalent). There is no way Angel could ever definitively damn his friends and leave them at W&H's beck and call.

                I think this plothole is a victim of Not Fade Away being a series instead of season finale. It's known that Wesley was meant to survive NFA if the series had continued so Joss/Brian had to come up with a way to bring him back into the story, resulting in a rather glaring plothole.

                I still think my Connor mindwipe theory is the only plausible excuse. Rewriting three years of memories would give anyone a hell of a headrush, perhaps allowing W&H to slip in a mental suggestion or some form of mind control...

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                • #9
                  With Fred even if hypothetically her soul wasn't destoryed, are they really going to want to take on Illyria, depowered or not, they are the only ones who know what she was and what she's truly capable of. Initally she seemed to scare them so maybe they'd not want to risk it. Fred's the only one I can see them not coming calling for though, all the rest of them are fair game. Is Spike the only one who didn't sign anything? Or does he have his own problems due to the amulet, and the SP's bringing him back that way?

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                  • #10
                    I think the only attraction any of the Fang Gang had for Wolfram and Hart was Angel's love for them. That is holding true in the Angel after the Fall canon, like Wesley told Gunn it is all about Angel. The Fang Gang is key to manipulating Angel. I think part of the memory wipe did involve Lilah. Wesley nevers seems to try to make any attempt to use Wolfram and Hart's resources to "find"her. In First Night he resists becoming a company man, seems surprised that they can make him do it. Maybe all the Senior Partners need is a person's blood signature on a contract to tie them to this reality. It is interesting that basic employees of Wolfram and Hart come back as mindless zombies but higher ups like Lilah come back as animated intelligent dead. Wesley is brought back as a ghost so that he is easier to control. Maybe it is not actual religious hell they damn their employees to but the ability to pull them back to the mortal dimension to be used as the Senior Partners' tools. Personally I don't think the SP's have any interest in the heaven or hell dimension a human soul migrates to, just the ability to pull that person out of any eternity they went to so that they can serve the Partners' needs on the temporal plane.

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