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We're all going to die someday ...

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  • We're all going to die someday ...

    and Angel's best friends do it all in less than a year. Cordelia is dead, Wesley waits for the moment that he can rest in peace, Gunn is undead and Fred is probably not more than an echo.

    When NFA ended, they didn't knew that they would go on an killed Wesley and Gunn. Now they continue ... also after ATF, they have to decide if they go on without these characters or create a way to keep them around (something the most fans don't like). If they let them die and we take in acount that;
    Gwen betrayed them and she is a loner in the first place anyway.
    Illyria can get her own body back ... seen in the issue 14 cover. Which means the end of Fred.

    Do you think that there will be damage control?, if there is one, would you like it? And who should be saved?

    I'm not sure yet;
    I can't picture Angel without all these characters. But the last thing I want is a corny story how some of these character will be saved. So I hope that there won't be any damage control. (if I could pick a character that should be saved, it would be Wesley ... I think that he is the most unique charactre with the most interesting relation with Angel.) On the other side do I've trouble with the team that survives ... I'm not sure if I like that team. Angel lost the people who really believed in him and helped him in the last years. And the people who are still here, are very different or still very new.

  • #2
    Most likely it is Gwen's grave we see in the advanced cover. Who will make it to Aftermath? Those with more of a story to tell-Conner, Spike, Angel, who I believe will remain human-remember we saw him as a old man. Gunn-poor bastard, will finally truly die. Wesley, once his usefullness to the Senior Partners ends, I believe, will be allowed to move on, most likely to be with Cordelia. I think that Illyria will be key in making this happen, but I do not think that Wesley will be with Fred. I believe that for Illyria to continue her connection with humanity, and continue as a reluctant champion of humanity, she will need to keep her shell and Fred's "soul." She will choose the greater good for Wesley, to move on and be at peace, and for the greater good of humanity to continue as their champion. For Wesley Heaven isn't lala land with Fred, but continuing to fight the good fight, as Cordelia once said in a moment of wisdom, some people are meant to be alone-heaven for Cordelia was helping the helpless and for Wesley it would be fighting the good fight, what he lived his whole life for and what he died for.


    • #3
      Even if every single "should-die" does find their end in After the Fall (which I'd be sad but okay with what with the way it's all been set up) that still leaves some great characters that can carry on the story. When I say “should-die” I mean Wesley, Gunn, and Fred—or the “already dead anyway”. The end of those three stories would be HUGE and no other deaths would have to happen in ATF. Which would leave us with…

      Angel, Spike, Connor, Lorne, Groo, Nina, Illyria, Gwen, and possibly Spider and Beta George.

      This is a great cast and would keep me reading. It would also feel FRESH. A whole new dynamic to the series. I’d much rather have this cast of characters than the writers finding a way to save Wesley, Gunn, and Fred again and instead killing off some minor characters (such as Nina or Gwen). It’s time for the stakes to be real again.
      "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill


      • #4
        I guess that I'm just being sentimental, but I don't like the team that will survive.

        Groo is a pretty flat character who lacks the potential to become interesting, Lorne was already a problem in season 3 ... he has no development or a real story, and I don't think that a lot of people are waiting for a great story around Lorne. Nina has the potential to become a great character, I hope that she won't suffer like some other love interests had to suffer (like Riley, Oz or Tara) ... but right now, I'm not that invested in her ... I like her and I would love to see more of her. But it will take some time. I'm not sure if Gwen will be in the team, maybe because she dies ... maybe because she is a loner or because of her betrayel. She has potential as well, but she needs a great story around her to make her not a female version of Spike. Illyria is interesting, but she can get old if there is not something happening, she is also cold and unhuman.

        To make a long story short, the only well developed characters will be Angel, Spike and Connor (3 alpha-males ... a bit much?)... and they won't be a close team. I'm not sure if this team will move me like the old one did, that team had 5/6 very human characters (I mean that they are relatable and flawed ... ) with great relations. Now we have a bunch of characters (the most without a good development or any depth) who aren't friends and there are some great relations, it won't be the close group the old one was. Of course, it can be very interesting ... but I love the little group moments of the past.

        yeah, I'm done with my sentimental post.
        Last edited by Nina; 01-09-08, 06:18 PM.


        • #5
          I believe that all the characters I listed before have great potential that simply hasn't been utilized yet-most particularly, Groo and Nina. Fred, Gunn, and Wesley (not to mention Cordelia) were all introduced as characters somewhat lacking in the depth department and look to where they all progressed over time. Groo was left wooden on purpose and in his very limited episodes as a background character, he gained some depth. That should tell you something. I have full faith that any character that they decide to use in Aftermath and beyond, once in the foreground and not just a backing character, will be intriguing with very unique stories to tell. In many ways, I think that whatever comes after ATF will be sort of hitting the reset button in the same way that Buffy hit the reset button after every season.
          "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill


          • #6
            I guess that I don't see the growth Groo made, he is still the silly guy in the background. He loves everything and is pure good ... he needs human emotions before I want to see him as a regular. Nina, I'm interested in ... she can become a fantastic character ... if they do the right thing with her.

            I'm aware of the growth of Wes and Cordy. Especially Wes, who lacked a lot of emotions ... but watcher!Wesley had more potential than a guy like Groo. Wes was silly but also human ... just like Cordy who had human emotions as well. Groo is nothing more than a strong good guy ... I love his little moments, I really do. But I doubt that he can be a 3D character.


            • #7
              See, and I feel that such a purely good character can be taken down a long and windy road in much the same way that purely bad character can be (like Spike). It just isn't done as often and is therefore harder to imagine. The best example I can give you is Willow. Pretend you've only seen an episode or two of season 1. Could you imagine that Willow would go the places she has? That's why I think Groo has potential.

              Think of Groo becoming a main character and he goes about being pure and happy just like he always does, but then suddenly he does something very shady (for the greater good, of course)... Think of how he would have to react to that. Think of how surprising it would be as a reader/watcher.
              "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill


              • #8
                My problem is that Willow always showed signs of her love of power. Hacking, protecting smokers etc. Very innocent, but flaws. Groo hasn't showed any sign that he can be shady.

                Spike is also a different case, he got a soul to become a good guy. Groo can't get something to become a flawed character. If he showed the desire to rob a store to get a golden watch in the next issue ... I would think that somebody stole his body. The guy lacks human emotions, and that's okay ... as long he won't get a big role. He can be like Clem or Meryl.


                • #9
                  That's fair enough. I actually agree with you, but, you know, Devil's Advocate and all.

                  And as for Nina, I think that there is a lot there. I mean I wouldn't want to post any links to any specific stories that might exist out there that might illustrate how cool Nina's character can actually be. But they do exist.
                  "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill


                  • #10
                    Well the death of every good character is one of the reason to way I don't like ATF. I hate Nina and Connor and Gwen is no good without Gunn. And a evil Gunn and a possible evil Wes is just bad. I kind of like Spike and Illyria, but not without the others.
                    And if I could bring back one character to save AFT then it is Cordelia.

                    No I dont understand why they must kill all good characters, IMO it don't make the story more interesting it makes it so much worst.
                    So I'm gonna keep on pretending I never heard of ATF and gonna keep on believing my happy ending.