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  • Whut?

    In a Q&A at slayalive ... Scott Allie said the next thing;

    smashed: Once and for all, there has been a lot of debate over this, and I'm pretty sure you've already cleared this up, but theoretically, could Spike and Angel be used in the Buffy season 8? Or are they only "available" for cameos and such?

    Scott: Spike and Angel can appear in Season Eight as much as we want. That's part of the deal that led to After the Fall—we can do whatever we want with characters from either show.
    source



    Does this mean that no matter what happens on Angel:ATF, the Ats characters can visit in season 8? What if Angel stays human, can he be a vampire in season 8 because that fits better in the BtVS story? Or if Gunn dies, can he be alive again if the BtVS writers wants to use him?

    And what does this say about Angel ATF being canon.

    Weird, I really hope that they won't do this.



    edit:
    sorry for the stupid title, I was kind of WTF when I saw the quote ... and I can't change it now.
    Last edited by Nina; 09-08-08, 08:33 PM.


  • #2
    "part of the deal that led to after the fall" is the really interesting phrase. basically, after the fall happened either because joss needed to use one or more of the ats characters and/or he needed the ats characters to progress to a certain point to go where he needed them to for season 8.

    i'd imagine a bit of both.

    "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
    "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

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    • #3
      To me it sounds more like Dark Horse can dismiss ATF as not canon. I hope that there is a plan and all, but I don't know. Scott says it like DH has the rights to overrule IDW.

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      • #4
        I think it's a moot point really.

        Maybe Dark Horse does have the right to technically, disregard IDW and perhaps IDW can disregard Dark Horse right back if they want to.

        I doubt we'll get a vampire-Angel popping up in season 8 saying that he never experienced LA going to hell. For starters, it would be a dick move that I doubt anyone over at Dark Horse would do. I mean why would you disrespect the canon just because it's being handled by another company? To do that would be an ass of a thing to do, and I doubt anyone in thier right mind would go out of thier way to do something nasty like that.

        And even if for whatever far fetched reason, Dark Horse felt like taking a cheap shot at IDW by trying to "de-canonize" what's going on over there, it's not going to happen without Joss' nod of approval.

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        • #5
          I think by "do what they want" it doesn't mean literally whatever...more that they are free to use the characters and don't have their hands tied (ie terms and conditions on the kinds of things they can do with them). Though maybe they do mean literally? I would think they'd be sensitive to both continuities though.


          -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --

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          • #6
            I'll be amazed If we see either of these two in season 8 at all quite frankly.

            I don't think Joss is interested in either character or with retreading old ground.

            Which is more then fine by me I must say.

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            • #7
              But ... but .... but ... Angel has to kick Andrew's ass after what happened in TGIQ. I need that to die happy.

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              • #8
                I think Angel will have to join the queue like the rest of us.....

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                • #9
                  I don't see how you'd take that as an indication that Season 8 can decanonize "After the Fall". More importantly, I can't see any reason why it *would*. It's Joss, after all, who's in charge of both books, and the Buffy canon -- why would he allow them to contradict so openly?

                  Allie's point was that they don't have to pay IDW for usage rights, or aren't limited to "only Angel for 3 issues" or "only Spike for 4 issues". They can bring both of them back full time after their "obligations" in Hell-A or anywhere that the "Aftermath" story takes them.

                  I'll be amazed If we see either of these two in season 8 at all quite frankly.
                  Actually, Allie said a while ago that a character that "started on Buffy" and went to "Angel" will return this season. In this Q&A, he all but confirmed that only such characters are eligible. So Spike, Angel, Dead Wes, Dead Cordy, or Harmony.
                  Last edited by KingofCretins; 10-08-08, 02:10 AM.
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                  • #10
                    I'd love to have Harmony do a guest spot on season 8.

                    Originally posted by Nina View Post
                    But ... but .... but ... Angel has to kick Andrew's ass after what happened in TGIQ. I need that to die happy.
                    I think Andrew should get to show Buffy really was backing him. And then Buffy and Angel can have it out.

                    Random thoughts on how that should go....

                    Spoiler:


                    ANGEL: Why didn't you trust me?

                    BUFFY: You were running - not just working for, running - the most famously evil company in the world! Ok, after Nestle.

                    ANGEL: But I never killed babies!

                    BUFFY: Or, to be fair, made substandard coffee. But still. Evil!

                    ANGEL: But I wasn't evil. We were changing the place from the inside out....and ok I realise that that sounds completely...

                    BUFFY: Uh huh. Completely completely. So, you were fighting the good fight from within the belly of the beast. How'd that turn out?

                    ANGEL: I sent LA to Hell.... but, plus side, some of the pollution was burned off by the hellfires.

                    BUFFY: Well, that entirely makes up for it.



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                    • #11
                      I was actually going for what happened in The Girl in Question, we found out that Andrew did set up the whole Immortal and fake!Buffy thing .... just to provocate Angel ... for fun.

                      About Damage, I never had a trouble with Buffy not trusting Angel's team. I had trouble with how she dealed with it (planning to let Andrew double cross Angel without checking out what was really going on.) And if Angel is using this argument, he would stand a lot stronger.

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                      • #12
                        Or a simple... "bank robbing huh?" if Angel wants "oh hey look a you bad thing!"

                        But yeah I agree with King, I never took it as him meaning they'd ever override what's going on in 'After the Fall' at all. It just means they can use these characters whenever they want, either it be a flashback or in the present or in a dream sequence like we had in 'The Long Way Home.'

                        I don't think Joss would oversee 'After the Fall' and plot the story with Brian Lynch (which he did remember people, it wasn't all Mr Lynch) and then completely discount it as if it never happened. Besides, by allowing 'After the Fall' under the condition the characters could be used in either series it kind of indicates dark horse acknowledge 'After the Fall' doesn't it?

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                        • #13
                          In a sense, Season 8 and "After the Fall" have already acknowledged each other -- because as of Chapter 10 of "Angel: After the Fall", we know that from the outside, nothing is "wrong" with LA. So there has been no "absent" or "missing" acknowledgement of the LA situation in Season 8 -- they are reacting as they should, because there is no reason to be suspicious of what's going on there. Since Buffy and Angel are ostensibly not talking recently anyway, why would they suspect?
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
                            I don't see how you'd take that as an indication that Season 8 can decanonize "After the Fall". More importantly, I can't see any reason why it *would*. It's Joss, after all, who's in charge of both books, and the Buffy canon -- why would he allow them to contradict so openly?

                            Allie's point was that they don't have to pay IDW for usage rights, or aren't limited to "only Angel for 3 issues" or "only Spike for 4 issues". They can bring both of them back full time after their "obligations" in Hell-A or anywhere that the "Aftermath" story takes them.



                            Actually, Allie said a while ago that a character that "started on Buffy" and went to "Angel" will return this season. In this Q&A, he all but confirmed that only such characters are eligible. So Spike, Angel, Dead Wes, Dead Cordy, or Harmony.
                            That's the way I read it as well - I don't believe Joss would allow either comic to contradict what is happening in both storylines. So, to me that's fantastic! We might actually get some crossover stories.

                            But unless it's Spike returning to Buffy, I don't want to see the Angel characters taking up residence in Buffyland. I mean, Spike originated there and stayed until the show went off the air. I would like for Buffy to find out Spike is alive.

                            I mean only Spike and Angel fit that description. Dead Wes and Dead Cordy - nah. Andrew we've already seen.

                            Originally posted by Wolfie Gilmore View Post
                            I'd love to have Harmony do a guest spot on season 8.

                            I think Andrew should get to show Buffy really was backing him. And then Buffy and Angel can have it out.
                            That would be good! I like Andrew and would love to see him vindicated for his role in Damage.
                            -TP<3
                            "At that point I'd love a fight and a heart to heart and then of course naughtiness and happy ever after."
                            - Dorian's Kitten re: Spuffy Reunion

                            Spuffy Videos!

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                            • #15
                              As for what Allie said about a character returning to Buffy, I just really, really, really hope it's not Spike. I feel with seasons 6 and 7 we had a large overdose of Spike, though I admit I believe I'm in the minority. I'd be much more interested in an appearance by Angel. Of course, that's just my personal opinion.

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                              • #16
                                I agree about his prominent place in season 6 & 7, but I'm sure that they both show up ... Joss has a strict policy about Spuffy and Bangel ... they will get both moments and afterwards I'm angry because there was another painful angstfest which eat pages and we are no step further.

                                The only reason that I want to see Angel (and Spike) showing up, is to clear up what is happened in 'Damage', 'Shells' and 'The Girl in Question'.

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                                • #17
                                  Well,this question has sort of been answered based on the variant Georges Jeanty cover that was just released this afternoon for Buffy #20.

                                  Spoiler:


                                  BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER #20

                                  Written by Jeph Loeb, penciled by Eric Wight and Georges Jeanty, inked by Andy Owens, colored by Michelle Madsen, covers by Jeanty and Jo Chen.

                                  Comic-book writer Jeph Loeb was set to executive produce, alongside Joss Whedon and animator Eric Wight, the proposed Buffy animated TV series. While Buffy fans won't be viewing that show anytime soon, Loeb, Wight, and Whedon offer the next best thing -- a comic inspired by the animated series!

                                  40 pages, $2.99, in stores on Nov. 26.



                                  Looks like Angel and Cordelia will be appearing in the upcoming issue 20 of season 8.Granted it will be an appearence set during the flashback animated segments of this issue but still technically this is a crossover.

                                  What's funny though is this is exactly in line with what Allie said isn't it?

                                  smashed: Once and for all, there has been a lot of debate over this, and I'm pretty sure you've already cleared this up, but theoretically, could Spike and Angel be used in the Buffy season 8? Or are they only "available" for cameos and such?

                                  Scott: Spike and Angel can appear in Season Eight as much as we want. That's part of the deal that led to After the Fall-we can do whatever we want with characters from either show.

                                  thomas: One of the things that's bothered by about Buffy, when it was a TV Series, was that the only character from Angel to appear on Buffy was Angel. Is there any chance of any of the Angel characters, besides Angel and Spike, to appear in Season 8 or 9?

                                  Scott: Thomas-Any character from Angel that we want in Buffy is free to appear in Season Eight, but I would not expect to see ones that did not start on Buffy.

                                  Angel and Cordy are characters that started on Buffy and moved to Angel and this doesn't mess with After The Fall because there scenes will be set during season 1 or early season 2.

                                  This is sort of like Angel and Spike appearing in issue 3.It is an appearence but it's done via flashback or a dream.

                                  Now this doesn't mean something might not happen later on in season 8 and in the present day but still it's funny that a few days after Allie makes these comments then this cover comes out effectively confirming a crossover is coming in November.A crossover along the lines of 'Fool For Love'/'Darla' in which the guest appearences/crossingover was also only in the flashbacks but still a crossover.Two Angel characters who started on Buffy and moved to Angel will be in this issue.

                                  It's kind of cool that Cordy will be in this.It's her first appearence on Buffy since she left for Angel at the end of season 3 in GD Part 2.


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                                  • #18
                                    Spoiler:
                                    Oh .... I haven't seen that one yet. I like it. I'm happy to see Cordy again ... I miss her.


                                    And Cordy's hair is ... big.

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                                    • #19
                                      Well - talk about your "timing"!

                                      So - okay - let me get this straight in my noggin...

                                      Spoiler:
                                      Starting Issue #20 we have a "flashback" story arch? To Season one? Two? Three?

                                      Or is this a one-shot flashback limited to issue #20?

                                      Kinda cool it's the executive producer of the animated series!
                                      -TP<3
                                      "At that point I'd love a fight and a heart to heart and then of course naughtiness and happy ever after."
                                      - Dorian's Kitten re: Spuffy Reunion

                                      Spuffy Videos!

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                                      • #20
                                        It's a one shot I believe Poet.. and yes that is a very cool cover. Yay Cordy!

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