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  • Why Cordelia?

    I was thinking about this and I couldn't find a real dark moment. Maybe her grudge towards Xander after Lover's Walk or the fact that she was snarky and bitchy to people. But she had no real dark moments (evil Cordy, was not Cordy), is this why she was chosen to become a higher power ... because in the end Cordelia was the most loyal to the good side and morality? I don't think that the PTB believed that they owed her this because Jasmine used her.

    When she was 16, she helped the scoobies .. not because Buffy was her friend, not because they forced her or because she had to ... she complained a lot about it and was not very nice ... but she was there. In Ats when she was fleshed out, we found out how happy she is when she saves people. She gives up her humanity to help, she gives up her life (which she loved) on earth to help.

    If you count that she was just 23 when she died and 21 when she gave up humanity and her beloved life to help ...

    She wasn't perfect ... of course not. But I think that in the end, she was an amazing person. And I like to believe that she earned this because she is amazing ... and not because of a masterplan or guilt.


  • #2
    Unfortunately I do believe that if it had never been for Jasmine Cordy would have never become a higher power. Sure she hasn't done anything real dark, but she did hurt a lot of people's feelings early on in her adolescence and whilst that sounds pretty trivial now, look what kind of effect it had on a girl like Marcie? There'd be plenty of people in the world who wanted to help people just as much as Cordy, Angel being one of them or even Willow (see her epiphany in Choices) who hadn't even done any of the bitchy things Cordy had done as a teenager. So I don't really see why she would get picked in all honesty?

    What I think happened is that Skip was more or less telling the truth when he snarks about Cordy being a "pure radiant saint" it does sound a little.. well silly. But after being used and abused like that and put in her coma I've always kind of thought she was in contact with the PTB somehow and in that contact there was a bargain kind of made. She obviously wanted to still help people, they respected that in her given everything she'd been through and decided that she should be a PTB, Cordy understood this but first asked a favour so she could help Angel one more time.

    Of course I don't have any textual evidence to back that up, other than the favour part, but it's how I've always envisioned it, or at leas something like that. But really, yeah I think becoming a PTB after ?You're Welcome' wouldn't have happened if the whole Jasmine thing hadn't made her a fake one in the first place.

    ~ Banner by Nina ~

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    • #3
      Considering Cory was originally introduced as the local 'bitch' she developed well beyond that and in fact became on of the most good hearted and characters in the Buffyverse, so I'm not surprised that you couldn't find any real serious 'dirt' on her character.

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      • #4
        I like her development in the verse. She starts as the local bitch, being rude to everyone "beneath" her. But then, when she moves to LA, broke and no real future she starts to change, even more when she has those visions on "Too sanshu in LA", she realises that there?s a lot of pain out there.

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        • #5
          I loved how in her last episode "You're Welcome" she wakes up and gets excited about the prospect of going shopping. And how we're reminded about how she and Harmony were once "cool" schoolpals. It was very nostalgic and reminiscent of the early days of the Buffyverse.

          It seems to me that the first step in her "ascension", if you will, was the transfer of the power of visions from Doyle to her. I always thought that was just the luck of the draw for her. Cordelia was part of Angel's team along with Doyle, which happened because she went to L.A. at the same time Angel did. If her family hadn't lost all of its money who knows where she would have ended up? With Doyle's departure the PTB allowed the power to be transferred to someone else close to Angel, at least that's how I remember it.

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          • #6
            But Doyle also transferred his visions because he was in love with Cordelia. They say on the show that the visions are transferred to someone in love with the other person. Doyle was in love with Cordy and wanted to make sure that she kept fighting and helping Angel.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by buffyholic View Post
              They say on the show that the visions are transferred to someone in love with the other person.
              Is that true? What episode do they say that in? I always assumed that the PTB had control of who gets the visions. It would seem strange if love had anything to do with it considering the PTB don't medal in that stuff.

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              • #8
                I so have to rewatch "Your Welcome". I just thought that the "favor" she was granted was helping Angel get back on track. I do not remember anything about her becoming a PTB. That would make me less sad. I knew before the epi aired that she would only be back for the one show but it still made me sad she was one of my favorite characters on ATS

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                • #9
                  I don't think it had anything to do with being in love with the person to transfer the visions.

                  I mean, in the Birthdayverse that Skip showed Cordy, Angel had the visions. And while I can buy the idea of *maybe* Doyle surprising Angel with a kiss before he jumped, there's no way I believe that Doyle was in love with Angel.

                  I'm not sure who gets controll over the transfer of the visions, the person (Doyle/Cordy) or the PTB.



                  Anyhow, back on topic I think Cordy was a great person by the end of the show. I don't think she was chosen by the fates or any such thing, I just think she was someone who found themself in a situation, and she chose to help people the way she did because at the end of the day she's a good person.

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                  • #10
                    I?m not a 100 percent sure of that but I think they say it on "You?re welcome" or maybe I read it on wikipedia. Sorry if I?m confusing you!

                    Anyway, I think the visions were passed on to Cordelia to make sure that she and Angel would keep fighting. But yeah, Cordelia died as a hero, as someone who lived her life with meaning, someone who outgrew her shallow self and devoted her life in helping the helpless. What I so love about "Birthday" is that even with the life and fame she always craved in that alternate reality, she still felt something was missing.

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                    • #11
                      That's a really hard question. But I think the Jasmin thing had something to do with it. Beacuse if she wasn't "infected" with jasmine then she wouldn't die and be a PTB.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by prayer View Post
                        That's a really hard question. But I think the Jasmin thing had something to do with it. Beacuse if she wasn't "infected" with jasmine then she wouldn't die and be a PTB.
                        Is Cordelia a PTB? I'm not sure it's ever been said. In "You're Welcome", she says they owe her a favor and that's how she gets to give Angel the vision. We know she wasn't a PTB when she ascended, it was just manipulation by Jasmine.

                        Now, in the comics,

                        Spoiler:
                        when Wes feels the leaves move, I don't think that indicates that she's a PTB.


                        In my opinion, I don't think she is and to be honest, I don't want her to be. First, it seems a little to easy. The PTB are forms of gods, right? I'm not sure Cordy has done enough to qualify for that status. Second, I like to think that she's finished. She's in a heavenly dimension somewhere, safe and loved.

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                        • #13
                          I don't think that Cordelia became one of the PTB (I think that if they are real gods ... they won't welcome a cheerleader in their team) but I think that she has some role in the big play now. Dead people can't contact humans, Cordelia couldn't do that in season 4 and Buffy had really no idea what was happening with her friends.

                          I really want to know if;

                          Spoiler:
                          Angel was talking to Cordelia in Spike:ATF 2, and if she could contact him ... or let him know that she was there.

                          And Wesley seems to think that Cordy is more than just a dead woman.
                          Last edited by Nina; 17-08-08, 10:26 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Nina View Post
                            I don't think that Cordelia became one of the PTB (I think that if they are real gods ... they don't welcome a cheerleader in their team) but I think that she has some role in the big play now. Dead people can't contact humans, Cordelia couldn't do that in season 4 and Buffy had really no idea what was happening with her friends.

                            I really want to know if;

                            Spoiler:
                            Angel was talking to Cordelia in Spike:ATF 2, and if she could contact him ... or let him know that she was there.

                            And Wesley seems to think that Cordy is more than just a dead woman.
                            Buffy said she knew the people she loved were safe when she was in Heaven. Also, what about that scenes with Darla and Conner and Dawn and Joyce. Do those qualify as contact from the dead? I can't remember now if Joyce was the "First" or not. Some parts of Season 7 are a little fuzzy in my head.

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                            • #15
                              Buffy's friends weren't fine and save at all ... which makes me think that Buffy's heaven 'lied' to her, to make her happy and calm. Buffy had no contact with her friends at all. We didn't knew if Darla was really Darla, the same for Joyce (and Lilah). But I think that Darla won't be in heaven in the first place ... the same for Lilah. But in all those cases, you can say that there is a bigger chance that it was 'the first' than that it was the dead person itself.

                              Cordelia was her first time in heaven not dead, so she was in a different situation. But also in that situation she couldn't only watch them and not make any contact with them. I think that you need extra powers for that.

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                              • #16
                                Maybe not a PTB but she's just not a dead women, just like Nina said.
                                But I think I misinterpret the question. I was thinking about what she became after her dead and why and not when she became a higher being in the season finale of season 3.
                                Beacuse that I do believe have all to do with Jasmine.

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                                • #17
                                  To the main question of why Cordelia was chosen to become a PTB, I believe she was just in a series of wrong places wrong times.

                                  Perhaps Cordy's inherent nature to want to better the world by sharing herself made her an easy target to be manipulated into this ascension. Perhaps Jasmine or Skip nudged some power to believe that Cordy should ascend. Perhaps it was so that Angel could continue his own destiny and have a PTB on his side.

                                  I may love Cordelia more than any other character on the show, but I don't think that those reasons made her eligible to become PTB.

                                  Lydia made the punch!

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                                  • #18
                                    In 'through the looking glass' isn't it stated that the visions are passed by love? Or is it through sex? I can't remember specifically, but Cordy and Groo are going to do the uhm... Com-shuk so Cordy can transfer her visions to Groo. Fuzzy, but I think that was the explanation for transferring powers.
                                    Just one rule... I don't want to date a twin... I've been traded before.

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by modifiedblind View Post
                                      In 'through the looking glass' isn't it stated that the visions are passed by love? Or is it through sex? I can't remember specifically, but Cordy and Groo are going to do the uhm... Com-shuk so Cordy can transfer her visions to Groo. Fuzzy, but I think that was the explanation for transferring powers.
                                      Good call, bringing this up.

                                      The prophecy says com-shuck which is I guess is the act of sex. However, it being a prophecy, it could have taken into consideration the fact that Cordelia was in love when she had sex with Groo.

                                      The idea of love being the reason for transferring follows more than it just being sex. Obviously Doyle passed to her with a kiss. In her birthday altverse, she gets it in a kiss. While having sex with Connor (and her mind being driven by another person) she didn't lose her powers to Connor.

                                      Lydia made the punch!

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                                      • #20
                                        I don?t think Cordy did a lot to be qualified as a PTB. I think Skip lied, Cordy wasn?t gonna be a higher being, that was crap! But she believed it maybe because she thought her good deeds were done, that her visions were over. I think Skip saw in Cordy the perfect person to manipulate because Cordy, no matter how good she was, still had a yearning to be viewed as someone powerful and popular and Skip picked up on that character flaw: her pride.

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