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Spike After the Fall Issue #2 Discussion Thread SPOILERS

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  • Spike After the Fall Issue #2 Discussion Thread SPOILERS

    Hey

    Has anyone read this yet? Realised there's no thread so thought I'd open one up, just got my hands on the issue and I really enjoyed it. Much, much better than the first one which was also great, but very little happened whatsoever. Not the case with this issue, it jumps straight in and gives us some surprising back-story on Angel's character, and sets up a new villain who's quite terrifying.

    I really liked learning how Angel was healed from breaking his back, and it's great that even though this is Spike's story we got into a brief insight into how Angel was feeling after the event occurred. Angel wanted out, he wanted to be out there helping the people which is probably why it irritated him a lot when he saw all the people Connor and Spike had saved, who he couldn't. And it's very sad to see how he was healed, Spike only gets a taste of it for a moment and it's so painful he leaves Wolfram and Hart. As Spike says Angel was "living in it" "it" being the magic used to heal Angel. It looks incredibly painful and it's quite shocking to think Angel had to go through it. If a guy like Spike's so crippled by even a touch, I don't want to think about how hard it must have been for a now human Angel to suffer the magic's for such a long unforgiving period of time.

    The new villain is also extremely interesting. She's very sarcastic and playful and even somewhat flirtatious but also very horrifying at the same moment. She reminds me of Glory a lot, although appears to be less ditzy. Quite terrifying to see her take down Illyria like that, so we can at least gather she's as powerful as Hamilton, perhaps even more so. And she's got one terrifying, gruesome power. She has the ability to literally turn those around her into walking rotting corpses. The artist conveyed this really well, it was horrific and shocking and it needed to be. Also quite frightening is that not only does she take down Spike and keep him chained up but she's also got Illyria/Fred trapped somewhere and there's nothing Spike can do about it. But the girl is trouble and without a doubt incredibly cruel, rather than just dusting Spike which she easily could have instead she's opted to have all the people he didn't save, rotting like corpses around him and crying out for his help. That's going to hit Spike really hard. Overall a really compelling awesome villain and quite surprising to learn that it was she who was running the ladies before Spike.

    Spike also had some nice moments this issue. I really enjoyed seeing him come to the rescue (or at least attempt to) in the truck, it was very awesome. Even more awesome was how inspired and faithful Jeremy is in Spike in particular, and Illyria/Fred as well. The only thing I found somewhat strange was that Spike made no efforts to try and help the guy (Angel) trapped in the magic's that were hurting him so badly. Surely that should have been a priority? But that's just a small problem for me, I'm more interested to see how Spike reacts to everything that's going on around him. He's just lost a lot of the people he swore to protect and our new lady has decided to make this as hard as possible for him by surrounding him with them. That's going to hurt Spike a lot, can't wait to see how he deals with it.

    A very nice issue. As a side piece it's fantastic, much better than ?First Night' I think. It's also giving Spike some nice things to work through as well, and is setting up a new villainess who's bound to cause a lot of trouble.

    Vampmogs

    ~ Banner by Nina ~

  • #2
    I loved the issue, it was very interesting and it had a lot of stories to tell. My only problem was Fred, again. I don't like it how she is degraded in some dumb, powerless girl without attitude. Fred survived 5 years in Pylea ... we saw Fred being badass in many episodes and she had a lot of great lines in the past. I hope that there is an good reason for this Fred.


    Let's start with Angel ... who was he talking to? Cordelia fits, she is powered up to a new level, she believes in Angel like nobody else and she can see what happens with her friends. It would also explain Angel's new trouble with speaking her name.
    And poor Angel, in pain .. again. I knew that he probably wouldn't rest somewhere with a cocktail and a caring nurse ... but this is really bad.

    Liked Spike much more in this issue, I love how he thinks. But couldn't he hear that it was Angel in the bubble? He knows that voice very well. Anyway ... I love that he is trying to be a good leader. And hello Maria, she looked cute in the first panels.

    The new bad girl ... creepy. I love how she was painted ...

    Comment


    • #3
      I just finished reading it! I enjoyed issue number 1 but this one was so much better! I agree with about the villain, she is a little bit like glory, she's funny but at the same time completely scary!

      I didn't realised it was angel at first, but now that you guys say it, yeah it was him (had to go read again that part). It's odd that Spike just left, I mean he must have heard Angel's voice right?

      And I'm really curious about Maria, apparently the evil woman and all the other ladies knew her well. I'm looking forward to learn more about her role in the story.

      Oh, and I loved the scene with the dragon and Spike thinking about all the possibilities to fight it.
      avatar credit: me!!

      Comment


      • #4
        I haven't got a huge amount to say about this issue, but on the whole I liked it, but then anyone who manages to get Spike chained and partially shirtless gets my vote.

        I like the new 'big bad', but it's early days yet and I want to see how they manage to flesh her out more. I think what happened to 'team Spike' was indeed horrific and that it managed to hit Spike where he lives emotionally, which is why it works so well.

        Sorry, still no keen on poor old Spider, but we'll see.

        Looking forward to the next issue with relish.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Nina View Post
          I loved the issue, it was very interesting and it had a lot of stories to tell. My only problem was Fred, again. I don't like it how she is degraded in some dumb, powerless girl without attitude. Fred survived 5 years in Pylea ... we saw Fred being badass in many episodes and she had a lot of great lines in the past. I hope that there is an good reason for this Fred.
          Fred does seem a little "off" but perhaps it's just the effects all the body swapping has had on her? I've kind of got the impression that she's even a bit deranged? She certainly seemed so in this issue how she was saying things out load when common sense should have told her to zip it? Who knows, maybe Lynch just hasn't got a strong grasp on her character yet but it seems unlikely considering how well he writes everyone else. I think there's maybe more to it or maybe she's just written this way so it appears like she needs a protector like Spike. It wouldn't be the first time in the verse a character's been either dumbed down or weakened for the sake of another character's story.

          Liked Spike much more in this issue, I love how he thinks. But couldn't he hear that it was Angel in the bubble? He knows that voice very well.
          Perhaps Angel's voice was meant to be distorted in the bubble? I was more concerned with why Spike made no efforts to save him. He didn't know it was Angel but he knew it was someone in great pain, it seemed like he just gave up to easily.

          ~ Banner by Nina ~

          Comment


          • #6
            I thought this issue was so hilarious - and SO SPIKE!

            I loved his "head conversation" about the Dragon! Scales? Tail? Eyes? And so typically Spike when he decides to "live to fight another day"! Even funnier when it turns out the Dragon just wanted his help - not to eat him!

            Okay - the conversation with Angel - I'm not sure about that whole scene. I don't think Spike knew it was Angel. The way the writing for Angel was done was different than usual making me think his "voice" sounded different and therefore not recognizeable to Spike.

            But *what* Angel said is what threw me - "How long is it supposed to be like this?" "Now I know how you must have felt." Who is he talking about? I thought at first Spike - because it seems he is burning - Spike makes reference to "Entire body on fire." So I thought maybe Angel was referring to Spike when he died in the Hellmouth.

            And then Spike's answer of "Am I supposed to sacrifice it?" Am I the Sacrifice?" What is "IT" and what would make Spike think he needed to sacrifice it?

            My first thought was Spike thinking he was going through his "Hellmouth Experience" all over again - thinking he was going to have to sacrifice his new soul again for Angel!!

            Do you think the Dragon was sent to find Spike and bring him to Angel? Is there anything from the earlier issues of A:ATF where Angel mentions Spike not helping him out?

            It was an odd conversation...
            Originally posted by lara View Post
            I just finished reading it! I enjoyed issue number 1 but this one was so much better! I agree with about the villain, she is a little bit like glory, she's funny but at the same time completely scary!
            I thought the same thing lara!! She reminded me so much of Glory!! And the way she put Illyria down - pixie? - not so much. Goddess? Maybe...maybe...

            Originally posted by sueworld View Post
            I haven't got a huge amount to say about this issue, but on the whole I liked it, but then anyone who manages to get Spike chained and partially shirtless gets my vote.
            Ah yes...Spike in Chains...*pause for dirty thought*

            I like the new 'big bad', but it's early days yet and I want to see how they manage to flesh her out more. I think what happened to 'team Spike' was indeed horrific and that it managed to hit Spike where he lives emotionally, which is why it works so well.
            I loved the way he ticked down his crew - Jerry, New Kid, Surrogate Parents, Annoying Teenagers... But he was especially worried about being away from his "flock" that was really sweet. And when he found out Fred/Illyria had been taken - he hauled out ALL the artillary!

            Sorry, still no keen on poor old Spider, but we'll see.
            Her first appearance was a bit confusing... What was up with the "little girl innocent" act? Was it just that? And act? And her conversation with herself, "Cast me out all the time." "They are just jealous." "I've been here longer than most of them." Cast out of where? The group? And where is "here"? Hell-A?

            So, I think Spider-Marie and Spike put a little somethin', somethin' together to overthrow the Pixie-Chick. That must be how Spike/Illyria become the new Lord of Beverly Hills.

            Nina - Again the Fred thing - puzzling. I still think it has something to do with Hell-A. I think it's interfering with the "balance" between Illyria and Fred. It's either one or the other.

            I am LOVING this storyline so far! And have I mentioned how HAPPY I am that FRANCO URU is drawing!?!? HAPPY! Very HAPPY!
            -TP<3
            "At that point I'd love a fight and a heart to heart and then of course naughtiness and happy ever after."
            - Dorian's Kitten re: Spuffy Reunion

            Spuffy Videos!

            Comment


            • #7
              or perhaps he recognized it was angel from the way that angel was talking (he was saying very angel-like things). spike's comment about "this nutjob. he's living in it." points me towards him knowing it's angel. that's the kind of language that spike would reserve solely for angel's self-sacrificial personality.

              i noticed that spike was conveniently absent from illyria's blabbing about angel's humanity. i actually am convinced that spike knows angel is human beforehand. first, spike hears the man in the yellow glow magic blabbering quite clearly about humanity, and second, spike was extremely protective and even short tempered when the girls offered to tend to angel--like he didn't want them to know about or get near angel. i think spike is the only one that knew before the others (illyria aside).

              my theory about fred's mysterious stomach wound is that the wound is in the exact placement of where cyvus vail stabbed wesley!!! part of illyria's hell seems to be being infected by fred. illyria having a gaping stomach wound would be a definite reminder of wesley's death--the one thing that affected illyria emotionally and her greatest moment of human weakness.

              everyone in hell-a appears to be experiencing their own personal hells. i'm convinced that this is the common thread in brian lynch's story arcs of each character.

              it also seems that maria/spider's comment of being older than the other girls refers to the fact that she's been around since the victorian age (circa 1900 due to spike's ponytail). and i'm not convinced that illyria's timeslips are all irrelevant. we know that spider might lose her head in the future. and we saw both angel and spike in fray-era wardrobe, angel being a bit aged and spike with flying cars in front of a beheaded maria. none of the other timeslips were false, so why would the future ones be? it also points to the fact that maria, while having ended up that way due to wiccan tampering, is at least 100 (+20) years old and immortal.

              also, it seems that spike perhaps thought that angel was in there for a reason and wasn't particularly fond of the idea of trying to touch the magic again.

              and i think the magic power is definitely there to help angel mend his broken back--the magic that wesley cooked up from w&h's sources that was referenced.

              i get the feeling that atf is supposed to be approx. 2 months after not fade away from two references to 2 months. angel mentions that he's still aching from 2 months ago (referring to his broken back as having been 2 months ago?) and one of jeremy's gang mentions that there haven't been any new movies for 2 months. spike: atf seems to be an immediate precursor to angel: atf (subject to change). the end of spike: atf sounds like it's meant to meet up with the start of angel: atf. being the timeline geek that i am... angel states cordy's vision gift was specifically "2 months" prior (due to the specificness of smile time, date-wise--with a bit of a split between the week from valentine's day teaser and the next full moon in march and 3 victims pre-teaser + 4 more victims post-teaser, means that cordy died in february--air date consistent--and not fade away actually happened in april rather than the usual may), which means atf happens in june.

              the non-deserving to know her name and how she snapped at noelle calling her "non-" reminded me of jasmine more than glory. ditto with the decaying powers--which seemed to include her own face looking decayed while she was turning the others into dried mummy-like zombies. probably my favorite thing about "non-" is that her face seems to turn decayed with glowing eyes when she works her mojo. awesome. it seems that jeremy a.k.a. "jerry" was spared as part of "non-"'s worse fate (as she spoke about) as he wasn't decayed with the others. spike might try to rescue him.

              and i think the dragon was definitely trying to get spike to help angel.
              Last edited by NileQT87; 08-08-08, 07:54 AM.

              "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
              "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

              Comment


              • #8
                Spike and Dragon FTW!

                I'm fairly sure the pain guy is Angel, though it would be nifty if they went another way. Other options? Wes, Lindsey, uh...some guy. Seriously, it's probably Angel. Either way his speakings are muy interesante. The last sentence especially.

                I've got my suspicions about Jerry now - he's the only one who wears a scent (covering his true scent), the only one who didn't turn into a rotting corpse, he garners a compliment from 'the pixie', and he just happens to be Spike's right hand man?

                Ah, Marie...I have no clue who people hate you so much. I certainly have nothing against you and your adorable Duck shirt.

                Evil Pixie is great...wonder what's her name?

                "I, uh, I love trucks." - best single line of the issue

                I hate how easily Illyria went down. That's not the Old One I know and love.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I really hope Illyria doesn't turn into the bench mark for how strong and powerful someone is. First it was Hamilton and not this Pixie lady. Both fights didn't seem to be about anything but beating her. I'm not saying she should win every fight, but the one thing she does know about is fighting, surely she should be one of the toughest to beat. I know its early days but I really hope they don't go down the route of just using her to show how powerful other people are, rather than let her be powerful as well considering her lineage.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well, Hamilton had the power of W&H backing him up and they're pretty much unstoppable, so I can understand why he could beat Illyria. Angel actually had to gain the W&H power for himself before he could beat Hamilton.

                    As for Non, it looked to me like Illyria was smacking her down before Non used a surprise energy/zombie attack and healed her own face. I think Illyria was just caught of guard is all. I think "Non" knew not to take Illyria lightly.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Besides, it's a very known thing in the 'verse. When a big bad is introduced, it's very powerful and dangerous. And in the end, it wasn't that scary after all. Right now they showed us that Non is not an easy one, but in issue 4 she will probably bite the dust.

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