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  • Spike: After the Fall issue 1

    Next week (I think) we can read the first issue of the Spike mini series ... and here is the preview (5 pages) :

    click


    I like it, Urru is back (I prefer Runge, but still like Urru's art) and it feels good ... it's not much yet, but Illyria has big trouble dealing with humans ... Spike needs to keep an eye on her before she kills little kids.


  • #2
    that sums up why i prefer runge. urru cares more about drawing big, non-joss monsters and curvy girls. urru is more consistent, but his priorities to what he prefers to draw are different than what i like to see (dramatic character stuff).

    if we can just get lynch to calm down on the jokey stuff (it's not working for me) and go for the pain and drama, atf would be perfect. in fact, most of the times i've cringed at lynch's writing were during failed jokes. ats was never this jokey. i realize lynch seems to prioritize comedy heavily, but imo, his drama/touching moments come off better. but i rather hate "smile time"-style humor... and well, he wrote shadow puppets (awful--asylum was MUCH better), which makes smile time look serious. i like subtle, dry humor. it's funnier if its just a subtle twist of words or dead-pan irony and not large, goofy gestures ("bippity boppity boo" and the slayer chanting just made me uncomfortable--like let's delete this page! still hate wesley saying "chase that rainbow another day, big boy"--not wesley's voice at all. just imagining that in alexis' voice makes my head hurt. wesley starting the slayer chanting also bothered me.). lynch's comedy is drastically different from ats'. he does better with capturing the straight dramatic storytelling.

    a:atf is definitely more my interest, but s:atf is a perfect chance to see what happens between first night and a:atf. hopefully, lots of connor, gwen, illyria, nina, lorne, etc... wouldn't hate even just a page of angel indisposed with wesley looking after him, how wesley's corpse was moved and apparently well-embalmed or wesley in the white room.

    spider is more interesting than she was (mostly the wiccan tampering/spider legs coming out of her back), but i'm not really attached. i'm still stuck on her greedy outburst over the hagun shaft and wanting to kill angel.
    Last edited by NileQT87; 13-07-08, 02:57 PM.

    "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
    "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

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    • #3
      I prefer Urru's work myself. I can't put my finger on it, but it seems to 'flow' better.

      As to Spike "After the Fall''. I imagine given it's title we're going to be mainly concentrating on Spike story, and how he teamed up with Illyria and Spider and her 'gang'.

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      • #4
        I'm exited to see Illyria kicking some ass, and how those two teamed up together. I suppose though it was always the most likely partnership she'd make after Wesley was killed. I just wish there wasn't likely to be Fred stuff involved somewhere along the line.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Nina View Post
          Next week (I think) we can read the first issue of the Spike mini series ... and here is the preview (5 pages) :

          click


          I like it, Urru is back (I prefer Runge, but still like Urru's art) and it feels good ... it's not much yet, but Illyria has big trouble dealing with humans ... Spike needs to keep an eye on her before she kills little kids.
          Double-check that release date... I was online last night looking for the date and I found the July 16 date on Wiki but I also saw it being pushed to July 30th...

          http://heavyink.com/comic/5082-Spike-After-The-Fall-1

          Does anyone else have a problem Dark Horse vs. IDW? Dark Horse is so much more user friendly! I have alerts on all the coming Buffy issues, omnibus, TPB emailed to me. You can't get bupkus from IDW.

          Originally posted by sueworld View Post
          I prefer Urru's work myself. I can't put my finger on it, but it seems to 'flow' better.

          As to Spike "After the Fall''. I imagine given it's title we're going to be mainly concentrating on Spike story, and how he teamed up with Illyria and Spider and her 'gang'.
          Here's another vote for Uru.

          The man can draw action! And I'm really glad they brought him over for the Spike series. I think most Spike fans like Uru because of Asylum and Shadow Puppets.

          I heard the "Whedonesquer's" were the big complaint against Uru.

          My only complaint about Lynch's writing Spike is the lack of Season 7 Spike. There needs to be a little more "sensitive" Spike in the writing. But a lot of Spike post-soul came over from Angel. And that was a whole different set of writers than Buffy writers.

          And yes, I believe this will be mostly about Spike, Illyria and Spider - but I think it will also introduce how it came that he and Connor, Gwen and Nina came to start saving humans in Hell.
          -TP<3
          "At that point I'd love a fight and a heart to heart and then of course naughtiness and happy ever after."
          - Dorian's Kitten re: Spuffy Reunion

          Spuffy Videos!

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          • #6
            Well, it's out today. Did somebody read it yet? Over at IDW they love the issue ...
            Last edited by Nina; 17-07-08, 10:40 AM.

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            • #7
              I was too busy to get my copy today... I'll get it tomorrow! But so far I hear great things about it! Hey - my joy? Lynch and Uru back together again!! I just love that team! (Dratted Whedonesquers!)
              -TP<3
              "At that point I'd love a fight and a heart to heart and then of course naughtiness and happy ever after."
              - Dorian's Kitten re: Spuffy Reunion

              Spuffy Videos!

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              • #8
                I prefer Runge over Uruu myself. Runge is a bit hit and miss but he can do some stunning images, especially the close ups. Uruu is a bit all over the place for me, it's kind of 'meh.' Not that it is bad but I've very rarley stopped and went 'wow that's amazing' with any of his images, they're not bad but they've never stopped me in my tracks. Out of Runge, Jeanty and Uruu, he's actually my least favourite.

                Has anyone read this yet?

                ~ Banner by Nina ~

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                • #9
                  Yes, I did ...

                  Great story, but I had some trouble with understanding it sometimes ... I don't know what the problem was, I think that I had trouble with the many text and to understand this new situation.

                  Spoiler:

                  Well, let's start with Spike, some moments I had some trouble with how he is written, too aggressive ... and I've to adjust to see the world through his eyes ... but for the most of the time, he was spot on and his view on this new role as protecter of innocents is well done.

                  Illyria is Illyria and I love when she just pushed the demon away and said 'ours'. It must be difficult to deal with her.

                  Fred is what I disliked the most, I love to see Fred, but this Fred is not more than a damsel in distress. Fred stood up for herself in the past and Fred is smart enough to stay away from that kid. Now she seems like a dumb (but very sweet) barbie doll without any voice or attitude, waiting for Spike to save and protect her. We already saw this in A;ATF but in this issue it was painfully clear that Fred is not Fred.
                  But she has a gigantic wound, what would've caused that?

                  Poor Jeremy, everybody calls him Jerry now. And somehow he is forced into the second in charge role. I like his character, he has an attitude.

                  Those people with their 4-D dino ... annoyed me. Stupid people.

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                  • #10
                    I haven't yet read this issue yet, but in terms of what Nina said about Fred, I was wondering if its sort of like Fred (if that really is Fred, and not Illyria just suffering with Fred's memories or something) has been affected by Illyria's mind. Sort of a bit like Donna with the Time Lord stuff, maybe Illyria seeing things in a different way and all that knowledge has made Fred totally different, or maybe she's seen Illyria in her past form and her war like ways and its scarred her mentally, on top of all she's been through with being destroyed from the inside out by Illyria. A being of the power of Illyria must work in a totally different way, and if Fred was there within her when it was all happening maybe Illyria's mind has made her go insane purely because she is structured so differetly and Fred has seen things no human should. I don't know, but she can't just live inside Illyria, I hate that idea. Maybe they could write Illyria getting some of her Primordial ass kicking powers back and finding a way to seperate them or something, and then going off to run around the universe being kick ass to the bad guys. It'd be nice to have a super powered good guy for once. And maybe Fred could be her guide to being more human, and Illyria could show Fred the universe, I'm sure Fred wouldn't mind a guided tour of the universe. Now I'm getting off topic and carried away, lol.
                    Last edited by dinamo; 17-07-08, 02:09 PM.

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                    • #11
                      I guess that we will be back at the old discussion, how much influence has a soul. Fred's soul is destroyed, it can't return. I guess that we could say that Fred's humanity is gone ... just like with vampires; human soul is gone, demon is in the body and the memories are still there. If Fred is only aware of her own memories, she would be some twisted version of Fred (how twisted, depends on Illyria's soul ...) just like Angelus is a twisted version of Liam.

                      So I don't understand how; Illyria + Fred's memory = scared woman without any attitude. You would think that Illyria would make Fred more kick ass instead of what we see now. It's not like Fred is crazy or less good ... she just lost all her strength as a person.

                      But I'm curious if 'Fred' shares the memories of Illyria ... and what Illyria does know.

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                      • #12
                        I got my copy of Spike: After the fall, I'm so excited about this comic, hope it will clarify some things that have been bothering me since Angel season 5. Anyway, I read it today and have to agree with Nina on this:

                        Spoiler:
                        The Fred thing, I don't get it either, she's Illyria now, Fred's soul is gone, destroyed they said on the show, yet Illyria assumes her shape and then you don't see Illyria in her, but you don't see Fred either, that bugs me, I want just one of them.


                        I think that Spike is a little too agressive so far, well what with the city going to hell and all, but still not completely OOC for him. I still have my reserves though about how he's going to be portrayed in the future but... we'll see.
                        Last edited by lara; 18-07-08, 05:16 AM.
                        avatar credit: me!!

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                        • #13
                          I've just finished reading it and I liked it. Not a hell of a lot actually happened and the only reason that bothers me a tad is because this is what only four issues long? Not a lot of time to muck around, but honestly Lynch mustn’t have had much of choice, you have to set Spike's situation up some how. Can't imagine Lynch attempting to do this in four issues if Hell A hadn't already been set up in 'Angel After the Fall.'

                          I actually liked Spike's aggressiveness, though how his attitude changes towards Fred. I thought it was perfectly in character for him. Remember Spike from 'Soul Purpose' and how rude he was to the woman in the alley who he saves? From memory he calls her a 'retard' and a 'stupid cow' as well as a 'bimbo.' Spike's made progress since then, but not heaps of progress yet, and this will help explore that. So I think Lynch was spot on in how he was written. Especially with Spike referring to the young plump kid as "it" that's totally Spike, and it'll be really interesting if this can somehow be resolved a little. Already it's showing pros and cons with Spike and that's what I was hoping for with this one shot. The pros- he just saved the kid, the cons- he doesn't seem to respect humans a whole lot yet.

                          With Fred he's totally different, the same way Spike was in season five, he's far more tender and protective. It's actually why I really enjoy the concept of Spike/Fred even though it'll never happen with Wes/Fred/Illyria and to a lesser extent, Spike/Spider this season. I think Spike/Fred is going to be a bit like Spike/Anya, something was always there even if it's not acted on, and hey given the crapfest and pointless events of 'Entropy' perhaps Spike/Fred will benefit from staying that way, whereas it completely ruined the Spike/Anya connection. But I liked his protectiveness of her, I thought it was great and liked the tonal shift in Spike with Fred in comparison to the others, I thought how he was written was spot on.

                          And hey, a small detail but what I really loved was Spike actually stopping and thinking about Angel and Buffy’s leadership roles, the difficulties they were presented with and how his attitude towards them, in particular Angel could be annoying. Spike’s in a leadership role now and the fact he actually stopped and reflected on that, to me at least, already shows this mini series is capable of showing change and growth in Spike. I like that, because it’s easy to be the ass to people like Angel who actually have all the weight of the problems on their shoulders, and now Spike gets put in Angel’s situation and realises how irritating people might be to the leader who’s got so much on their plate. Hopefully that’ll change how Spike acts around Angel sometimes, and may benefit their relationship. Even if it’s a minimal thing, it’s still positive growth, and there’s no bad there.

                          The art- still don’t love it, but don’t in any way hate it. It’s just ‘meh’ to me, I doesn’t really evoke any strong feelings one way or the other. And same goes for the colours, they seem a bit wishy washy to me. I still think Urru is my least favourite artist out of Franco, Jeanty and Urru. I actually have a theory that’s why Urru doesn’t get as much flak as Franco or especially Jeanty, because his art is more safe. The other two artists have more impact, they make the book their own wether you like it or not, Urru’s doesn’t really make me feel much at all. But it’s not bad, it doesn’t lessen my enjoyment of the book at all, but it doesn’t *add* to my enjoyment either.

                          In regards to the dinosaur demons, yeah not typical for Ats or the Buffyverse in general but aside from the fact the comic book medium does give the writers the ability to have more extravagant demons as evident in both season eight and 'After the Fall,' we have to remember this is a hell dimension with more 'hell-like demons' and less 'human hybrids' so it make sense we'd be seeing some pretty out there creatures. Couldn't it even be possible the tentacle demon is an 'Old One' the same way the demon from the Hellmouth was, Illyria in her true form was or the Mayor was? That'd be pretty cool.

                          All in all a good issue for me. I liked the writing, liked Jeremy and liked how the books already showed signs it's capable of changing Spike's character. But, gotta say, nothing really did happen this issue. No big revelations, no big character appearances, it did pretty much consist of Spike killing a couple of demons, talking to some people then walking to Wolfram and Hart. BUT to be fair it's started in a landscape already been explored to quite an extent in 'After the Fall' so there's not loads of new stuff you can bring to the table and the set up is necessary. Just that out of 'The Long Way Home Issue #1' with the reveal of the castle, giant Dawn, Immortal fake-out, Amy's return, Twilight Symbol and 'Angel After the Fall Issue #1' with the reveal of LA's state, Angel's dragon, Wesley's new state of being and Gunn's transformation as a vamp, this first issue didn't really have a lot of big wow moments. Not so much a criticism but just an observation, still a very good read.
                          Last edited by vampmogs; 18-07-08, 12:18 PM.

                          ~ Banner by Nina ~

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                          • #14
                            Okay... I posted a review last night - but it's not here. So, I will post it again - hopefully I will remember what I posted! AND - the comic is out now - so we don't have to use spoiler tags, right?? That should be a "given".

                            I am LOVING Spike: ATF!

                            I read it again today with some of the other poster opinions in mind - but honestly keep getting swept up in the wonderfulness of Spike!! (Yes, I am a fan... )

                            Spoiler:
                            Favorite lines:

                            "Sodding Hell."

                            "Okay." "THAT came with the jacket." (referring to his sword)

                            "Ours."

                            "Pacific Spike time."

                            "Swing away Jerry." (I don't know - sounded like a shout out to "Signs" to me...)

                            "Right then." "How have you been?" (referring to the Dragon)

                            I'm not seeing "agressive" Spike like everyone else... I'm seeing "assertive" Spike. There IS a difference!!

                            We have never seen Spike in charge! This is new for Spike! And I think the difference is the New Soul.

                            Yes, we've seen Spike work with Dru and other Big Bads to put together schemes to annoy Buffy and the Scoobies - the Ring of Imara, working with Adam, etc.

                            But this is Spike - with soul - leading a group of Humans to safety and trying to protect them. He is being assertive! He now has to deal with the ramifications of responsibility and the feelings he will have if he loses these people to death. And that's different when you have a soul. So, I see assertive Spike - not agressive. I see "life or death" Spike. Spike being responsible and making life-threatening decisions - without Angel, without Buffy - kinda decisions.

                            Quite frankly - I'm PROUD of him!!

                            He's definitely dealing with the angst that making these decisions cause -

                            "Did Angel deal with this kind of lip?" "I mean other than from me?"

                            He's grappling with decisions like food for his people, shelter for his people, protecting his people. We aren't used to seeing Spike in charge and this is the way he is dealing with it. And he can't be "Mr. Nice Guy". ("Come on, don't SUCK Spike.") Just like ANGEL couldn't always be Mr. Nice Guy. Often making the big decisions do not make you popular (Buffy anyone??).

                            The Illyria thing... That confuses me a bit too. But my thoughts are you have Illyria= Dangerous/Powerful and you have Fred= compassion/helplessness. And maybe because they are in Hell you can't have the happy medium which was the Fred we know and love?? That's what I put together to help me through those scenes. Because yes - we know that Fred can be a pretty tough lady when she wants to be! AND -we have seen Illyria display certain aspects of compassion towards Wesley.

                            So I'm thinking Hell doesn't deal with balance - it deal with good or evil, or black and white - at least where Illyria is concerned.

                            My questions are - why does Fred have a gaping wound in her side?? One Spike seems to make a reference too?

                            Jeremy seems a likeable chap - one I'm sure Spike will hate to lose. Perhaps we will see him deal with the ramifications of having a soul and losing friends.

                            Just other great stuff I noticed - I LOVE how Lynch speaks "Spike" so well!

                            "Saved by the gits."

                            "Oh what now?"

                            "Birthplace of Fire and Brimstone and I can't get a bloody-"

                            BTW - What IS up with Spike's Silver lighter??

                            They better not take that away from him! It's the only original "Spike thing" we have left!
                            -TP<3
                            "At that point I'd love a fight and a heart to heart and then of course naughtiness and happy ever after."
                            - Dorian's Kitten re: Spuffy Reunion

                            Spuffy Videos!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I just bought me a copy of it and haven't had the chance to read it yet. I'm glad to see Urru back.

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