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Was Buffy a B*t*h

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  • Was Buffy a B*t*h

    In Sanctuary, Angel and Buffy argue, she hits him, he hits her back, etc.
    But how out of order was Buffy here.
    Angel, once again, had done a good job of trying to redeem Faith, and then
    Buffy just shows up, gets annoyed, tries to be the boss and tell Angel the way it is,
    and actually goes as low as to bring up that shes got a new boyfriend now, that she trusts.
    And she has the nerve to get annoyed at Angel for all this, what a Bitch.

  • #2
    I understand why Buffy behaved like this, she was out of line but after what happened you can't expect from her that she is behaving like nothing happened. On the other side, Angel was behaving without empathy towards Buffy. Not that this means that Buffy was aloud to do what she did ... but Angel wasn't a saint either.

    But she was wrong, and that's why I'm annoyed that Angel is the one who has to make amends. In my eyes, Buffy should've went to Angel to say sorry and not the other way around.

    About the hitting, that was really one of her worst moments. Hitting somebody less strong because he doesn't do what you want him to do and you don't want to talk about it and not saying sorry isn't very pretty. You see that the same happens in Damage; Buffy wants something, Angel wants to talk about it because he doesn't want to give Dana to Andrew and the scoobies use power to get what they want. Clearly Buffy thinks that she has that right. It's a pretty bad characteristic of Buffy.

    What she says to Angel in the police station is of course also out of line, it's Buffy's pride that doesn't want to say that Angel was right and instead she hurts him on the worst way. The ironic part is of course that Riley is the one who cheated on her while Angel never looked at another woman while they were dating.

    Again, I get why she did it ... but she should've been the one who said sorry first.
    Last edited by Nina; 12-06-08, 07:56 PM.

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    • #3
      What, when did Reilly Cheat on buffy? That never happened.
      And about the hitting, Im sure Angel wasnt really that bothered about it, he's a guy, he dosnt relly care about stuff like that, it was how she was acting that was annoying him.

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      • #4
        The vampirewhore was a metaphor for normal cheating. Buffy saw it as cheating ... I guess that we can call it cheating.


        And about Angel being the guy ... that doesn't count this time. Buffy is the stronger one, the male while Angel is the weaker female. It's not different than a man hitting a woman in another tv-series. And yes, Buffy didn't broke his jaw but hitting a weaker person because you want to stop that person is in no way acceptable (if you can say that hitting because you disagree is acceptable).
        Last edited by Nina; 12-06-08, 08:09 PM.

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        • #5
          But the hitting would have been the least of Angels concerns, even though Buffy is a *little bit stronger*
          angel is still capable of beating her in a fight, so i doubt he even cared about that.
          But look at Buffys reaction by comparison, she's *stronger* but she reacted like a meek little girlie, all crying and upset.

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          • #6
            Yeah, I never got that ... she tried to hit him again and he defends himself and she acts like Angel started hitting her instead. Maybe she didn't expected the reaction because people let her do what she wants the most of the time ... Angel was always on her side and now he wasn't. But still, not her best moment.

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            • #7
              Im glad he made her upset, coz your right, she does get the final say on things usually
              and she is bossy. Its good to see Angel standing up to her.

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              • #8
                You know what? She was a bitca and I LOVED IT!!!!! It's fantastic every time we get Bitch!Buffy. I think she had every right to be as pissed as she was when she came to LA. I mean you get Buffy's first love coercing with her arch nemesis. Faith had just taken over Buffy's life, slept with her boyfriend, took her mother hostage and run's away after she destroys Buffy's life. Hitting Angel probably wasn't the best idea but Buffy had to be pretty frustrated with Angel when she found out he was helping the one person she loathed so I can understand why she hit him.
                T _A _T _E _R _S'____ W _O _R _L _D

                Proud recipient of the "Vagenis Award of Excellence"

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                • #9
                  I think Buffy had the right to act the way she did in this episode, I mean Faith had first tried to kill her mother, then she had stolen her body which nearly resulted in Buffy being deported, Faith then proceeded to have sex with Riley and then she had the crap beaten out of her in the church, not to mention that Faith had used her mother's credit card to book a flight, but that's less major. On top of all this Buffy arrives in LA to see Angel, to help him with Faith to discover him hugging Faith, not to mention that Angel's shirt is open, which could mean Buffy leaps to radical explanations.

                  But Buffy's overall behaviour toward Faith and Angel was justified because to Buffy it would've looked like Angel was harbouring a known killer, okay, so maybe she didn't really have to start in on Riley, but yeah. I think both Buffy and Angel have reasonable points for their actions.

                  I love bitch Buffy, it's one of the reasons why Living Conditions is one of my favourite episodes from that season.
                  sigpic

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                  • #10
                    Buffy quite often used her fists and asked questions later. If something upset her she struck out. I did laugh when Angel said the comment about "not to be all school yard". Remember when she dragged Giles out of the factory after he attacked Angel for killing Jenny? When he got angry at Buffy she hit him hard enough to knock him to the ground. Buffy was like that.

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                    • #11
                      I've talked about this issue many times before so I'm just going to sum up my feelings on the matter really quickly.

                      Buffy *did* have a right to be extremely angry at Faith. Here's a list of what Faith did to her in less than a year leading up to 'Sanctuary;'

                      *Tried to frame her for murder after Faith killed Finch
                      *Betrayed Buffy and all her friends by working with the Mayor
                      *Attempted to take away Angel's soul and steal Buffy's boyfriend
                      *Attempted to chain Buffy up and torture her to death
                      *Tried to kill Angel
                      *Planned to join the Mayor in killing Buffy, her friends, the senior class and the entire population of Sunnydale
                      *Beat and kept her mother hostage
                      *Stole Buffy's body
                      *Slept with Riley

                      With such an impressive list like that, it's only human and expected that Buffy would despise Faith at this point in time. Especially considering, as she states herself, "I tried so hard to help you and you spat on me!" Here's a couple of quotes summing up the chances Buffy has given Faith;

                      "I'm not going to give up on her" (Buffy to Giles in 'Consequences' after Faith tries to blame her for killing Finch)

                      "It doesn't have to be like this you know" (Buffy to Faith in 'This Years Girl' after Faith awakens from her coma.)


                      That's not taking into account Buffy's very sympathetic concern that Faith may be "scared and alone hiding somewhere" after she initially finds out Faith's awoken from the coma.

                      Then you have Buffy's scepticism that Faith really wants to change when she says "she's playing you!" to Angel. Which is a justified response after Faith played Buffy and her trust in season 3. Faith had "changed" before, or at least she pretended to, until she tries to capture Buffy and have her brutaly tortured that is.

                      So is to be expected Buffy would be angry at Faith, Yes. Is to be expected Buffy would be cynical that Faith really expects to change, Yes.

                      Where Buffy failed was how she treat Angel. I think they're both to blame a little for this. Angel wasn't being very sympathetic to the people around him at all. He tells Faith that just because she wants to change it doesn't mean the world is ready to, so he does understood this. But he fails in conveying that to any of his friends or Buffy, he hurts Wes as a result of this as well as Buffy. Buffy asks him "do you care?" concerning everything Faith has done to Buffy and I think she had a legitimate point to ask, because he didn't give this sense at all, nor did he seem particularly willing to acknowledge the world wasn't ready for Faith to change necessarily, even if he understood it.

                      But the blame really falls to Buffy in how it went down to Angel. She hit him first which was *NOT* okay. You don't strike someone in an argument when they've made no advancements to harm you in any physical way. And it's not even just one single act of passion, she reers back and takes a second swing, only this time Angel blocks her and hits her first. He was entitled to do this, he was defending himself. Buffy was the attacker.

                      But just a couple of points I want to add on how I interpreted this;

                      Originally Posted by Nina
                      Yeah, I never got that ... she tried to hit him again and he defends himself and she acts like Angel started hitting her instead. Maybe she didn't expected the reaction because people let her do what she wants the most of the time ... Angel was always on her side and now he wasn't. But still, not her best moment.
                      Buffy states "you did it for her" when Angel says that she hit him first. That's what hurt Buffy. Buffy was acting rash and as I said above, *wrong* but that's why this hurt her. I don't think the idea of him defending himself was so wrong to her, only that she never expected he'd hit her for Faith. That's what stung, as she says later on in the episode after their argument, "Faith wins again." That's how she felt here. Faith swept in and messed everything up, her relationship with Riley and with Angel and Buffy's "left to clean up yet another one of [her] messes."

                      So yeah, Buffy was wrong in the way she acted to Angel, though I think Angel could have been a tad more sensitive. But Buffy was completely justified in being so angry at Faith and sceptical about her change, completely.

                      It would have been downright strange if Buffy just shrugged her shoulders and said "oh you want to be good now, lets be best friends!" Buffy's character is a human being with human emotions, that's why we love her, and most humans couldn't just turn the other cheek in a situation like this. Especially when Buffy had already done that in 'Consequences' when Faith betrayed her and again in 'This Years Girl.' There's only so many chances Faith can ruin before Buffy's had enough.

                      In the end it all worked out for the best though. Angel went back to Sunnydale which was pretty big of him considering Buffy had more to be sorry for than he did. They both apologised to eachother in the way they spoke to one another and how they acted and became better because of it. Good lesson learnt.

                      ~ Banner by Nina ~

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by vampmogs View Post
                        Buffy states "you did it for her" when Angel says that she hit him first. That's what hurt Buffy. Buffy was acting rash and as I said above, *wrong* but that's why this hurt her. I don't think the idea of him defending himself was so wrong to her, only that she never expected he'd hit her for Faith. That's what stung, as she says later on in the episode after their argument, "Faith wins again." That's how she felt here. Faith swept in and messed everything up, her relationship with Riley and with Angel and Buffy's "left to clean up yet another one of [her] messes."
                        I did forget about that line, and I agree ... that's probably why she looked so shocked. But it's a weird thing to say, Angel hit her back as defence and to stop her hitting him, not for Faith.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nina View Post
                          I did forget about that line, and I agree ... that's probably why she looked so shocked. But it's a weird thing to say, Angel hit her back as defence and to stop her hitting him, not for Faith.
                          Well yeah, logically that's correct. But Buffy was fuming over Faith, logic kind of went out of the window with her in this episode, hence hitting Angel in the first place.

                          She feels like he turned on her from Faith, the whole "do you even care" calling Angel her knight, seeing them hugging each other, "Faith wins again" ect. Even if she attacked him first, Angel hitting her back, to her, felt as if it was all because of Faith and for Faith. And really to some extent it was, they were only fighting because of Faith.

                          When in reality he never only defended himself from a second attack from the girl, who as he states, is stronger than him. He was perfectly entitled to do this, not only should have Buffy refrained from hitting him the first time, but the attempt to do it again clearly crossed the line in a big way.

                          Buffy actually has a habit of reacting badly when she’s being touched. We’ve seen it on numerous occasions. Angel pushes her away in ‘Amends’ and she retaliates by smacking him in the face, Angel touches her to pull her back from chasing Faith in ‘Sanctuary’ and she hits him across the face, Spike grabs her to stop walking away in ‘Smashed’ and she punches him across the face, Faith pushes her out of the window in 'No Future For You' and as she goes to explain to Buffy, Buffy clocks her one in the face ect.

                          The only time we’ve really seen her refrain was with Riley when he holds onto her to stop her from leaving and she very coldly and seriously tells him to get his hand off of her. She gave him some leniency, but it’s a clear example of how much she really doesn’t like to be touched sometimes.

                          Probably a result from being continuously jumped at in the dark and being violently attacked on a nightly basis, the girl needs her space and reacts badly to someone invading it. It's kind of humorously commented on by Willow/Xander in 'Inca Mummy Girl' when Buffy goes to stop Ronny from scraping off some of the material from a museum exhibit. Willow stops her and says the "non violent" approach should work better. Buffy seems offended saying "I wasn’t going to use violence, I don't always use violence, right?" in which Xander replies "As long as you believe that." That’s also accompanied by the numerous violent incident reports Willow finds in Buffy’s file during ‘Phases’ and Buffy says she was “just sticking up for herself.”
                          Last edited by vampmogs; 17-06-08, 02:51 PM.

                          ~ Banner by Nina ~

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                          • #14
                            Honestly? Buffy's Human. Just as Human as anyone else. She's always had her moments where she's acted less than super. And this was one of them. She was obviously confused about where to focus her anger and her frustration. Angel's always been there for her, and will always be there for her, and as a general rule, people take their frustration out on the people they trust and love the most. While her anger was misguided, I think it was reasonable in the sense that she is human and she was in pain.
                            Giles: All we know is that the fate of the entire world rests on it. . . Did you eat all the jellies?
                            Buffy: Did you want a jelly?
                            Giles: I always have a jelly. I'm always the one that says "let's have a jelly in the mix."

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                            • #15
                              I think Buffy was in her right to feel angry at Faith and Angel. Buffy always tried to be her friend and Faith always spat on her (Buffy?s words, not mine). Besides, she tried to kill Angel, even her, Xander, Willow, she stole her body and slept with Riley and she even tried to kill Joyce. That?s to much to take and Buffy had enough. And she was shocked to see Angel being so kind to Faith, considering all they went through.
                              This is tricky because I believe Buffy was in her right but I?m also on Faith?s side a little.

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                              • #16
                                Emotion's Slave

                                As explained below, buffy has lost it by the time this argument flairs up. She is not thinking straight and she is completely driven by her emotions. Not only that but she has super powers with vigiorous training in combat. Given all that, her hitting Angel should not come as a suprise. Although hitting him was wrong, it seems to me that it was unavoidable. We have all lost it at some point. We have all been not our selves. And we have all done stupid things because of it. However, Buffy had already lost control of her emotions and instead they were controlling her. With everything that had lead up to that fight, can anyone really blame the slayer for acting badly and irrationally. No one is in control all the time nor is anyone perfect any of the time. We all have our flaws and Buffy's flaw is her emotions. Her emotions are also her strengths, but that is for another time.

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by miscjj06 View Post
                                  As explained below, buffy has lost it by the time this argument flairs up. She is not thinking straight and she is completely driven by her emotions. Not only that but she has super powers with vigiorous training in combat. Given all that, her hitting Angel should not come as a suprise. Although hitting him was wrong, it seems to me that it was unavoidable. We have all lost it at some point. We have all been not our selves. And we have all done stupid things because of it. However, Buffy had already lost control of her emotions and instead they were controlling her. With everything that had lead up to that fight, can anyone really blame the slayer for acting badly and irrationally. No one is in control all the time nor is anyone perfect any of the time. We all have our flaws and Buffy's flaw is her emotions. Her emotions are also her strengths, but that is for another time.
                                  I totally agree with that. It?s true that Buffy?s emotions are both a flaw and a strenght and she goes with the flow. I think Faith brings out the worst in Buffy. She has super strenght but she is human, so she also makes bad judgements.

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                                  • #18
                                    But what do you two think about the fact that it's Angel who has to clear the air ... and not Buffy? She is the one who started (very understandable) the fight where Angel should have showed more sympathy but what he did was the only way to get Faith in prison ... he did nothing really wrong where Buffy was way out of line. Isn't it Buffy's job to clear the air?

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                                    • #19
                                      The way I saw it is that Angel wasn't being insensitive, he was being firm. Firm in his convictions and his mission. It's interesting that although Buffy wasn concerned for Angel's safety she still thinks of him as 'hers'. Buffy is a good person but both Angel and Faith hit home truths in that she's about control and likes things to revolve around 'Planet Buffy'.

                                      Angel's attitude towards Buffy wasn't about her and he meant it. He wasn't trying to spite her he trying to do something positive with Faith. All he tried to do was explain himself on at least two occasions but she shut him down. Saying "There, there Buffy" would have been an inffectual patronizing routine which would been equally insulting in terms of their relationship. He was simply making his declaration of independence, demonstrating the absolute importance of her mission. That's not about you Buff, deal with it.

                                      Angel's apology however was as understandable as Buffy's anger. Buffy's anger towards Angel was little about right and wrong, well to me it can't be. Her attacks at Angel were not simply verbal. If Angel was insensitive, Buffy was vicious. It was more about their relationship. I don't have Bangel goggles on but's about them and the loe they possibly still share on a level. Even after Angel is more or less proven right she says Faith wins again. A girl is redeemed but she sees the rupture in her relationship with her former lover and in her world. In her eyes Faith broken what she trusts, what she knows. And yeah, hang on she uses those words against Angel at the end. Coincidence? Yeah right.

                                      In turn Angel going to Buffy wasn't about mending his wrong or her wrong, because, in this respect there is little wrong or right but the emotional situation. Buffy's admittance is a powerful one. Her anger subsided and she could understand his perspective as he understood hers. Buffy uses logic and Angel uses emotion. The roles reverse to show understanding. Bangelist must weep over the Yoko Factor scene.

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by kana View Post
                                        In turn Angel going to Buffy wasn't about mending his wrong or her wrong, because, in this respect there is little wrong or right but the emotional situation. Buffy's admittance is a powerful one. Her anger subsided and she could understand his perspective as he understood hers.
                                        I totally agree, apoligizing isn't always about fault and it doesn't make you weak. In a case like this it's about mending a bridge before it all falls down. Sometimes when the greater fault is hard to see, like in this case, and pride gets in the way, no one apoligizes and the relationship is lost. Angel took on the role as "the greater man/woman" and saved it in time, allowing both of them to sleep better at night. However, he should have probably used a phone.

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