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Scenes That Make or Break an Episode (Angel style)

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  • Scenes That Make or Break an Episode (Angel style)

    To avoid having to use spoiler tags in the Buffy thread, I figured we could use an Angel version of the thread. So: scenes that either make or break an episode for you.

    Enisy mentioned Tomorrow in the Buffy thread, and I agree-- the whole Cordelia/ascension thing kind of ruined that episode. But I do really love the scene where Angel is training Connor in the Hyperion with Fred's help. Fred puts her hands up like claws and grrs to represent a vampire, and Angel tells her, "Vampire. You're not in Cats," and she lowers her claws and grrrs more quietly.

    Doyle's death in Hero manages to outweigh the suckiness that is, IMO, the first fifty or so minutes of that episode. I just remember being so shocked and stunned when I first saw it, and Angel's and Cordelia's reactions make it even more tragic.

    I also really like the beginning and ending scenes of Judgement, but not very much in the middle. I like how bad-ass Angel, Wes, and Cordy look while marching into the gym, and I'm a sucker for any Faith/Angel scenes.

    On the "break" side of things, I hate the ending of Carpe Noctem. That's not a terribly great episode, but I do think it's funny. All of that's ruined, though, with Angel's unbelievably cheesy lines to Marcus: "You may have the attitude, and you may have the power-- but there is one thing you don't have, and never will: friends." I'm literally cringing as I type this.

    So....anyone else?
    The story's kinda bland. It's about this guy named Dumbledore Calrissian who needs to return the ring back to Mordor.

  • #2
    I love the arc themed scenes in some pretty boring episodes. Like Angel's grieving in 'Double or nothing'. That can save an episode for me.

    The dancing in 'She' is also a redeeming factor. It's the Ats episode I dislike the most, but I love the dancing.

    Angel's speech in Power Play makes me forget the fact that the episode isn't that great. So it's the end of the episode that makes it one of my favourite episodes. You could say the same for other episodes with speeches but 'Epiphany' and 'Deep Down' are great anyway.

    I hate cheesy lines or cheesy moments when they don't fit ... so Angel's "I'm Angel, I beat the bad guys.", makes 'You're Welcome' less fantastic. And like LaJaula already said; "You may have the attitude, and you may have the power- but there is one thing you don't have, and never will: friends." is another very painful line that makes me cry.

    And OOC moments can destroy an episode. 'The Girl in Question' is funny, and I would enjoy a lot of things if Angel and Spike were acting IC. Really the 'signing with the eyes' comment destroys two episodes ... 'TGIQ' and 'Becoming'. Or the crying, the weird 'I'm moving on' thing ... it would be so much better if those things weren't this stupid.

    There are probably more ... but I can't remember them right now.

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    • #3
      I don?t know if this is an example, but the part that made "City of" so fantastic to me (the whole episode is just awesome) was Tina?s murder because it was a sign that the show was gonna be different and darker. I was totally hoping that Angel would rescue her but no, I was wrong! And I?ve already that episode 4 or 5 times and still, that scene shocks me.

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      • #4
        The scene when Cordy's mirror self shouts "I'm in love, with Angel!" in Tomorrow breaks that episode before we even get to the scene when she goes up into the sky IMO. Charisma's acting is horrible in that scene, and I don't know why, You're Welcome clearly proves she has the acting chops.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by vampmogs View Post
          The scene when Cordy's mirror self shouts "I'm in love, with Angel!" in Tomorrow breaks that episode before we even get to the scene when she goes up into the sky IMO. Charisma's acting is horrible in that scene, and I don't know why, You're Welcome clearly proves she has the acting chops.
          Omg I completely agree. So glad someone else squirms at that scene. I just never bought that relationship and those last episodes didn't help. It gets on my nerves more so then the 'we know something the characters don't catastrophe' that was the end of season three.
          sigpic

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          • #6
            Y'know, vampmogs, I really hate that because the line "I'm in love with Angel!" in and of itself isn't horrible. If CC had delivered it differently-- said it quietly and shyly; laughing to herself in disbelief; saying it sarcastically but with a facial expression that conveyed that she knew it to be true-- then I wouldn't have had that much of a problem with it. But the way that Cordelia says it is just too over-the-top and dramatic and not Cordelia that it really does not work for me. At all.
            The story's kinda bland. It's about this guy named Dumbledore Calrissian who needs to return the ring back to Mordor.

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            • #7
              I totally agree with all of you. That scene is terrible and when she ascends is bad too. I don?t know if it?s because of Charisma?s acting but that scens just seems off.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by LaJaula View Post
                Y'know, vampmogs, I really hate that because the line "I'm in love with Angel!" in and of itself isn't horrible. If CC had delivered it differently-- said it quietly and shyly; laughing to herself in disbelief; saying it sarcastically but with a facial expression that conveyed that she knew it to be true-- then I wouldn't have had that much of a problem with it. But the way that Cordelia says it is just too over-the-top and dramatic and not Cordelia that it really does not work for me. At all.
                I agree. Whilst I'm not a fan of Angel/Cordelia there's no doubting it that there was love there. There's enough textual evidence to support it, by those around them and by the two characters themselves. So having her say she was in love with Angel was bound to happen, it's just the delivery and the acting.

                And I agree that it was so very unlike Cordelia, part of the problem with the latter half of season 3, after her holiday she might as well not have been Cordelia anymore. No more snark, just a saint and it's a big flop in her character's progression for me. They find the perfect balance in 'You're Welcome.' Plus I don't want Saint Cordelia, Saint Cordelia wasn't why the character was so popular, her snarky, sometimes vein but then her very caring nature was what made her so loveable. Lines like "I'm Cordelia. I don't think. I know. Okay?" is the perfect blend for her character.
                Last edited by vampmogs; 16-05-08, 04:55 AM.

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                • #9
                  And OOC moments can destroy an episode. 'The Girl in Question' is funny, and I would enjoy a lot of things if Angel and Spike were acting IC. Really the 'signing with the eyes' comment destroys two episodes ... 'TGIQ' and 'Becoming'. Or the crying, the weird 'I'm moving on' thing ... it would be so much better if those things weren't this stupid.
                  Nooooooooo! I just adored that line! It was so much fun in so many ways! In fact I adored the whole episode myself. Finally putting pay to all the self reverential shipper talk and in the process showing up Spike and Angel as being just two 'grumpy old men' who couldn't move on. Loved it!!

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                  • #10
                    I found the 'grumpy old men' vibe weird in s5 of Ats, like you said it was a vibe given to both characters at one time or another. I'm really not sure why. Yeah they're old, but they never acted old. Angel acted very much like the 26 year old in Btvs and a lot of Ats, and Spike was always portrayed as very young in Btvs as well. Angel appeared to be written older and wiser when Connor came on the scene but never as an 'old man' but in s5 both vamps were shown to be like this. No idea why the writers suddenly took this approach.

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                    • #11
                      Personally I loved it. Apart from the fact both actors were starting to look older, I think it was about time that the characters reflected a little of their 'true' age' They both are very old despite all appearances, and so there was great fun to be be gleamed from showing them at their pettiest as well as grumpiest.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sueworld View Post
                        Personally I loved it. Apart from the fact both actors were starting to look older, I think it was about time that the characters reflected a little of their 'true' age' They both are very old despite all appearances, and so there was great fun to be be gleamed from showing them at their pettiest as well as grumpiest.
                        I suspect your right about it being a reflection on how the actors were starting to visibly age. It'd be very interesting to see how they'd write Angel now in a TV movie given DB's youthful rejuvenation in 'Bones.'

                        I didn't mind the odd joke about their age, they always did have the running gag about Angel being hopeless with technology. But I just liked my vampires to retain some of their youth and zest whilst still being wise, it was a great blend in Darla. And didn't they bring Spike and Dru on initially to be younger villains that could interact with the Scoobies on that level?

                        I just always thought one of the draws of vampirism in popular culture was that they were young and pretty forever. No big deal I just found it odd suddenly there was this big shift. There was more references to Angel being 'gramps' for Spike and all that stuff, whereas in the past they'd played off eachother in a very youthful way, you never got the sense Angel was older than Spike like you did in s5 of Ats.

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                        • #13
                          Honestly, the episodes in season 2.. i think perhaps "Redefinition" and the episodes surrounding it, when Angel leaves Cordy and Wes and goes off on his own into a tangent of darkness, frustrates me. Im sure not many will agree with me here, but i just found it so unnecessary. Like, ya, sure, he could have gone off on his own for a while, but it didnt need to be done in such a dramatic way. Like the shots of him walking alone through tunnels and working out, talking about his aloneness...

                          let's not be so dramatic!

                          Also, the deterioration of Spike's character. This has been brought up time and time again. And I love Spike, I'm a huge fan. But I think that the writers knew that Spike was most everyone's favorite character, so they used and overused him. Stretched him like silly-putty 'til all that was left of his original character were the snide remarks. The way that he was reduced to following angel around to annoy him upon coming back from the dead in S5. I think he was a great addition to the show, and his and David's chemistry was... just perfect. But the fact that they were competing for the same ending... the way they fight over the prophesy. I just always felt like "this isnt Spike!".
                          Giles: All we know is that the fate of the entire world rests on it. . . Did you eat all the jellies?
                          Buffy: Did you want a jelly?
                          Giles: I always have a jelly. I'm always the one that says "let's have a jelly in the mix."

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DoughnutHole View Post
                            Honestly, the episodes in season 2.. i think perhaps "Redefinition" and the episodes surrounding it, when Angel leaves Cordy and Wes and goes off on his own into a tangent of darkness, frustrates me. Im sure not many will agree with me here, but i just found it so unnecessary. Like, ya, sure, he could have gone off on his own for a while, but it didnt need to be done in such a dramatic way. Like the shots of him walking alone through tunnels and working out, talking about his aloneness...
                            I agree about the tunnels and the very 'Rocky' training montage. Very lame indeed. I didn't like the VO at all.

                            Also, the deterioration of Spike's character. This has been brought up time and time again. And I love Spike, I'm a huge fan. But I think that the writers knew that Spike was most everyone's favorite character, so they used and overused him. Stretched him like silly-putty 'til all that was left of his original character were the snide remarks. The way that he was reduced to following angel around to annoy him upon coming back from the dead in S5. I think he was a great addition to the show, and his and David's chemistry was... just perfect. But the fact that they were competing for the same ending... the way they fight over the prophesy. I just always felt like "this isnt Spike!".
                            I had a lot more respect for Spike when he went out in 'Chosen' and for a long time wished he hadn't been brought back in Ats because they showed some really ugly sides of his personality and I started to dislike him again like I did in Btvs season six. But I'm glad now they did. Ever since 'Shells' I got respect for the character and I've enjoyed his character a lot in After the Fall so in the end I think it was worth it.

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