Angel: ATF - "First Night Part II" - Issue #7 - SPOILERS!!!!

[ThePoet's<3]

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***SPOILER ALERT***

The following posts will contain comments about Angel: After the Fall - "First Night II" - Issue #7
If you don't want to be "spoiled" read no further!

Otherwise...

DISCUSS!!



Well - Was Kate on any of your "mystery character" lists?!? (Actually, Nina gets the prize!)

That totally caught me off guard but I was really glad to see her! I've been watching Angel Season Two and had just finished with her story in "Epiphany" - which is where that quote she tells Connor about in Issue #7 originates. It was a good reminder of "Why We Fight".

I liked how Connor typically latched onto her as he has other women along the way.

I get the feeling Connor was really confused that night - more of the First Dad, Second Dad, etc. He's very split - which must be the "alternate universe" which was created for everyone unraveling.

But the story was a bit quick and left me hoping she will show up again in future Angel: ATF or whatever comes after...

I thought the Wesley story was so beautiful! He was given the thing he wanted and still turned it down to be 1) incorporeal and 2) work for W&H and 3) still help his friends - in Hell-A.

And before all the complaints are tossed about - I thought the Fred nude scene was tastefully done. AND - hey - this is W&H's version of heaven so if Fred looks *ahem* healthy then so be it!


I'm a tad confused by what's happening with Beta George and the vampire baby-siitting him during the fight. Is this vampire also telepathic? The vampire alludes to Beta being born with with his powers and he has to fight for his powers. (Right?)

AND - the biggest shocker of all?!? Did someone mention...




SLAYERS?!?!?

Were Slayers there the night of the Fight?? Did they receive their powers that same night and feel called to respond to the fight?

I can't wait for First Night #3!

[RuFio]

Yeah I was totally stoked to see Kate. The last we've seen of her was mid season two & her character had a good run. I like the characters the writers are bringing back in the Angel comics better than those in Buffy's. Contrary to some opinions, I think Nina, Gwen, Groo & Kate were great characters who were under-used in the show.
So yea, kate's return was the highlight for me.

[NileQT87]

my thoughts... oh, wesley. i love that he's still the type to not believe the lie, and seeing it with his head and not his heart. reminds me of how he ousted aubrey (holtz's gang), and of course, his speech about how the first thing a watcher learns is to separate reality from the lie. the one time he gave in to the lie was with illyria as he was dying.

that bit just makes me love wes all the more. do the senior partners have a thing about giving their "children" adam and eve imagery? we've had two eves. apples, fig leaves and snakes included.

it sounds like wolfram & hart is counting on trying to take wesley away from his intellectualized head-space and get him at the heart. they're counting on it. they're counting on wesley having some hope for reuniting with fred. it's the only leverage they've got on him (besides his bodily state and where they can send him).

interestingly, they don't control illyria and they have stated how much they dislike the wild card--meaning, they don't have fred if she's really stuck in there with illyria. if that really is fred in there with illyria, and wesley now knows where fred is... that's a problem for wolfram & hart. the leverage is gone. the only thing that they have on him is now that he's incorporeal and that they can send him to hell.

wesley is intellectual enough to self-sacrifice himself for a higher purpose and make hard decisions that go against the emotional reaction (stealing connor and sacrificing his relationship with his 'family'). what it comes down to is if he's going to still act as a liaison or if he's going to choose hell over abandoning the side he believes in. it'll even be interesting if wolfram & hart doesn't know where fred potentially is--wesley could use that against them.

though, if wolfram & hart does know fred has some sort of presence in illyria--that would explain another reason they incorporealized wesley. it traps him further. his heaven is on earth rather than the cliché. he doesn't just want fred. he wants all of it--including a fred who cares about their friends and him helping the mission.

and i think this issue proved that it isn't angel's fault that L.A. is in hell. it's wolfram & hart wanting angel to doubt himself again--it's their fault. they want to use his habit of feeling guilt for everything against him. it sounds like it's wolfram & hart telling everyone to believe it's angel's fault. it's the old game they played with him in season 2--make him doubt himself. what is really up is that they are punishing him for pulling the rug out from under them (the circle of the black thorn).

as for kate and connor... absolutely LOVED the repetition of the speech angel gave kate in epiphany. angel's speech to connor in deep down had similar philosophy. given connor's crack at the person who said it sounding "self-important", i think the existentialist speech was a dead giveaway to him.

[Wolfie Gilmore]

Ok, haven't read this yet but...Kate? Woo! I've been begging for her to come back for so long. Thank you evil Wolfram and Hart God/fixer type people Can't wait to read.

[ThePoet's<3]

my thoughts... oh, wesley. i love that he's still the type to not believe the lie, and seeing it with his head and not his heart. reminds me of how he ousted aubrey (holtz's gang), and of course, his speech about how the first thing a watcher learns is to separate reality from the lie. the one time he gave in to the lie was with illyria as he was dying.

Yes - it was a big call-back to the last episode. I loved when he told Illyria to "stop being her" when Fred's parents came to visit in "The Girl in Question".

that bit just makes me love wes all the more. do the senior partners have a thing about giving their "children" adam and eve imagery? we've had two eves. apples, fig leaves and snakes included.

Adam and Eve imagery?? I don't get it... Yeah just a tad over the top right? But just shows us the extremes W&H were going to to keep Wesley right where he was. Which probably means - it's good for the A-Team for Wesley to be where he is now!

it sounds like wolfram & hart is counting on trying to take wesley away from his intellectualized head-space and get him at the heart. they're counting on it. they're counting on wesley having some hope for reuniting with fred. it's the only leverage they've got on him (besides his bodily state and where they can send him).

interestingly, they don't control illyria and they have stated how much they dislike the wild card--meaning, they don't have fred if she's really stuck in there with illyria. if that really is fred in there with illyria, and wesley now know where fred is... that's a problem for wolfram & hart. the leverage is gone. the only thing that they have on him is now that he's incorporeal and that they can send him to hell.

wesley is intellectual enough to self-sacrifice himself for a higher purpose and make hard decisions that go against the emotional reaction (stealing connor and sacrificing his relationship with his 'family'). what it comes down to is if he's going to still act as a liaison or if he's going to choose hell over abandoning the side he believes in. it'll even be interesting if wolfram & hart doesn't know where fred potentially is--wesley could use that against them.

though, if wolfram & hart does know fred has some sort of presence in illyria--that would explain another reason they incorporealized wesley. it traps him further. his heaven is on earth rather than the cliché. he doesn't just want fred. he wants all of it--including a fred who cares about their friends and him helping the mission.

That's my gut feeling as well that W&H knows Fred still exists within Illyria. As we saw in the last issue (#5) she is having some type of division. I don't know if it's comparable to what Nina is going through or not. Perhaps that's a hint that Fred does exist somewhere within Illyria.

and i think this issue proved that it isn't angel's fault that L.A. is in hell. it's wolfram & hart wanting angel to doubt himself again--it's their fault. they want to use his habit of feeling guilt for everything against him. it sounds like it's wolfram & hart telling everyone to believe it's angel's fault. it's the old game they played with him in season 2--make him doubt himself. what is really up is that they are punishing him for pulling the rug out from under them (the circle of the black thorn).

Then he must have been very close! Holland tells Angel that it doesn't matter one way or another whether Angel defeats W&H. W&H (Evil) has existed since the beginning of time. "Since the first cave man hit another cave man." (And now I really like the "Genesis" shout out in the beginning! ) So Angel must have wounded W&H pretty badly this time!

as for kate and connor... absolutely LOVED the repetition of the speech angel gave kate in epiphany. angel's speech to connor in deep down had similar philosophy. given connor's crack at the person who said it sounding "self-important", i think the existentialist speech was a dead giveaway to him.

I always wished Kate would have remained a part of "Angel". I suppose that's why I like "Moonlight" so much. It was great timing for me as I had just watched Season 2 Angel.

[Jaseon]

heh, i called kate ages ago ^_^

[KingofCretins]

The Slayers mentioned wouldn't have received their powers the night of the fall, because "Chosen" was more or less a year before "Not Fade Away". Any Slayers there were simply caught up in it like everything else. I also doubt they played any pivotal role in the alley fight for a few reasons --

• Either Joss or Lynch or both said before that there was no army of Slayers that showed up to save them.
• The fact that Gunn has them prisoner or something is a tricky A to B line to draw if they were fighting side by side... especially since if Slayers who know what's going on from day one are not going to be easily captured. Slayers > vampires.
• We already *saw* a good chunk of the alley fight in flashback, and it apparently didn't involve any Slayers.

Kate being around is wonderful, I completely liked her attitude and how she was working. It was a little disappointing to get the impression that she was just walking in and out of the story, though. I hope she turns up again in the regular story.

Wow, can you imagine how much she and Angel might jump each other with him human? It'd be like being back in early Season 1 again

[Thomas]

Kate being around is wonderful, I completely liked her attitude and how she was working. It was a little disappointing to get the impression that she was just walking in and out of the story, though. I hope she turns up again in the regular story.

Wow, can you imagine how much she and Angel might jump each other with him human? It'd be like being back in early Season 1 again

Maybe it's just me, but I assumed when Kate said she was going to blow-up the army of demons, she meant she was going to go all kamikaze on them. Which would explain why she's not around in the first five issues. Plus, the bomb was pretty big, I doubt Kate could fight her way into the demons, activate the bomb, and then get out safely. She is just human after all.

[Nina]

Well - Was Kate on any of your "mystery character" lists?!? (Actually, Nina gets the prize!)

Well, I'm not sure if I was the first person who guessed Kate ... but *yeeeh*


I loved the issue, okay I miss Angel in his own series ... but I was so happy with the Wesley, Connor and Kate stuff that I can live with it.


First Wesley,
Beatiful drawings in his arc, he looked sometimes a little freaky ... but the best art I saw in any of the comics (Buffy and Angel). Fred had more curves than Amy ... but we see that all the time, season 8!Buffy is also curvier than Sarah ... and Jenny has a lot of curves, Nina has even more in the comics. I've no problem with it ...

I love that he is the important man, poor underrated Wesley is a big player. And I *know* that Wesley is going to be the reason that W&H aren't winning. I don't know what W&H expects that Wesley is going to do, but I bet he isn't going to do that.

I'm very curious how Wesley is going to get Angel with his crushed body from the streets to the office.

Kate, I hope that this isn't the last we saw of her ... she is a nice addition to the story. I love that she quoted Angel's speech, I love that speech so much and it's very inspiring and powerful. So without knowing, Connor is going to listen to father 1 ... finally inspired by Angel. But back to Kate; I loved her in het story and I hope that she'll survive and show up again.

And Beta George, I still like him. I'm curious how those slayers end up being used by Gunn and his team. And I think that this means that Spike's girls aren't slayers. Or they were a squad once, but I doubt that a slayersquad of Buffy will be the playmates of Spike.

I didn't really liked the art of Kate's and Beta George's story ... and I want to say one more time that I love the coverart with all the characters.