Dangling plot threads and unanswered????

[ilovewesley]

I am not sure if it is poor story plots, unanswered questions or sheer sadism, but there are some issues in angel after the fall that are driving me nuts. Were the Fang Gang stupid enough to sell their afterlives to the Senior Partners or did Angel do it for them or were they all brainwashed during the memory wipe? Is LA going to hell the Senior Partners getting revenge on Angel or is a result of the increasing unstability of Illyria/Fred with the Senior Partners trying to get the situation to work to their advantage? What is the greater evil Wesley warned Lorne about that the Senior Partners can't even control? Did poor Angel shanshu because the Senior Partners wanted him helpless and vulnerable when he most needed to be champion or was he supposed to receive his reward after destroying the Black Thorn, and was transported into hell thru a dimension slip caused by an increasing unstable Illyria? Is Wesley damned forever and was Angel committing suicide by demon challenge so he wouldn't be alone?

[Nina]

I can only guess ... so here are my ideas.

I am not sure if it is poor story plots, unanswered questions or sheer sadism, but there are some issues in angel after the fall that are driving me nuts. Were the Fang Gang stupid enough to sell their afterlives to the Senior Partners or did Angel do it for them or were they all brainwashed during the memory wipe?

Angel believes to much in a free choice for everybody and he knows the importance of a soul. I doubt that he would ever sell the souls of his friends to an evil law firm. The same for brainwashing that badly ...

Angel went to save Connor, and the others were corrupted by pretty things and their dreams. The only weak spot is Wesley, who should be above this kind of trics ...

Is LA going to hell the Senior Partners getting revenge on Angel or is a result of the increasing unstability of Illyria/Fred with the Senior Partners trying to get the situation to work to their advantage?

I think that W&H tried to punish Angel and his team, but I also think that they lost control ... and I think that they lost the war. Angel will probably survive ... but if the power of the SP in this world will survive? I doubt it.

What is the greater evil Wesley warned Lorne about that the Senior Partners can't even control?

I don't know, but I'm dying to find that one out. Maybe some Old Ones? They are introduced pretty late in the story ... so they can be the next big evil.

Did poor Angel shanshu because the Senior Partners wanted him helpless and vulnerable when he most needed to be champion or was he supposed to receive his reward after destroying the Black Thorn,

I think the first, Angel always believed that the shanshu was a reward because that's what he wanted most ... but nowhere is stated that it was a reward. And I also think/hope that Angel will stay human and show them all that you don't need superpowers to win or be dangerous. It would be a nice contrast with Buffy and her Slayer army.

And was transported into hell thru a dimension slip caused by an increasing unstable Illyria?

I've no idea ... it wouldn't suprise me if it is a side effect of hell. But maybe it would happen anyway because Fred's memories are still there and the memories can make a person who he/she is. Fred will never return in her old form because she lost her soul, but it wouldn't suprise me if Illyria and Fred would become one new person.

edit:
I need to read the questions better.
But I don't think that Illyria has anything to do with the dimension slip ... it has to be something bigger and more powerful.

Is Wesley damned forever

I hope not, it would be a sad ending for a tragic life of a good man. I know that it would fit but I prefer to think that Wesley will rest in peace some day.

and was Angel committing suicide by demon challenge so he wouldn't be alone?

I think this was one of Angel's stupid plans. He felt guilty, he needed to do something and he started bluffing and jumped into something too big for him ... stupid, but it's not much different of the NFA plan. Good intentions, too much emotions and not thinking clear.

[vampmogs]

On the subject of Angel and his Shanshu, I think the more obvious answer would the Senior Partners or another 'evil' did this to him rather than the idea he actually did 'shanshu.' Which is why I think a nice 'twist' would be that no one played a part in this but Angel fulfilling the prophecy. I do find it believable it could be his reward for being willing to sign it away, or because he fulfilled his prophecy by playing a major part in the apocalypse.

So many are expecting that someone intervened and made Angel human to weaken him or emotionally cripple him. I think the best twist would be to reveal that he actually did legitimately shanshu, and deal with the consequences of that. I immediately became suspicious after the very matter- of- fact talk between Angel and Wes when Angel concluded he didn't Shanshu but that someone made him this way. In typical Whedon fashion, I kind expect Angel to be completely wrong.

[Nina]

But they can both be right ... can't they? Maybe the shanshu is to make Angel weaker, but it's still the shanshu. Not one prophecy or god did say that it was a reward or that it would be the work of good powers, it would happen after he played a major role in the biggest apocalypse ... that did happen, why and by who doesn't matter for the actual shanshu. At least that's how I understand the situation.

[kana]

But they can both be right ... can't they? Maybe the shanshu is to make Angel weaker, but it's still the shanshu. Not one prophecy or god did say that it was a reward or that it would be the work of good powers, it would happen after he played a major role in the biggest apocalypse ... that did happen, why and by who doesn't matter for the actual shanshu. At least that's how I understand the situation.

Absolutely, I've alway thought that. Even the word Shanshu is ambiguous in regards to a vampire. It said nothing about the Powers, nor about it being a reward, nor was it specific about the Battle.

[vampmogs]

But they can both be right ... can't they? Maybe the shanshu is to make Angel weaker, but it's still the shanshu. Not one prophecy or god did say that it was a reward or that it would be the work of good powers, it would happen after he played a major role in the biggest apocalypse ... that did happen, why and by who doesn't matter for the actual shanshu. At least that's how I understand the situation.

Well yeah I could agree with that. Angel saw it as a reward because it was something he always wanted, to be human. Spike saw it as a reward as well, but partly I think because he wanted to be the glorified monkey. The actual Shanshu, as said many times by Wolfram and Hart, is that the vampire with a soul plays a major part in the apocalypse. Now the Senator in 'Not Fade Away' says "... and as his reward, becomes human." She too views it as a reward, so it's a bit unclear exactly what the Shanshu says. But Lindsey says, "no one knows what side he's going to be on" and 'Not Fade Away' was very murky in that regard. So really it works. He can be Shanshued but he no longer views it as a reward because he can't be at his best as a human.

The only reason I assume the PTB are the ones responsible for the Shanshu is because they've always seemed to have an active interest in Angel as a character. It was them who wanted him to be a champion, arguably it was them who created the snow in 'Amends' or even brought him back in the first place. I think it was them who allowed him into Kate's apartment, who wanted Angel back on track in season 5 and let Cordelia go to him, and IMO them who made Angel stop and sense the Shanshu Prophecy during 'Blind Date' when he first infiltrates Wolfram and Hart.