Who is best for Fred as a lover?

[ilovewesley]

It looks to me like we are headed for a Fred/Spike/Illyria threesome. Originally, if season 6 had continued on TV, Joss was going to do this with Wesley, but now Wesley is dead/incorporeal/ and sooner or later going to move on. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if Spike and Fred or Fred manifestation haven't already done the deed. Spike thinks Wesley is dead and gone. Fred/Illyria comforted Wesley during the final scene. Spike wouldn't push it, being the sweetheart that he is, but Fred-her motto has always seemed to be love the one you are with. Though she is perfectly capable of surviving on her own, hello, 5 years on Pylea, she gravitates to the alpha male. Starting with a crush on Angel, moving on to Gunn, dallying with Knox- not alpha but one who knew the ropes at Wolfram and Hart, why not Spike?
The whole Wesley/Fred thing seemed forced at best, for Wesley an obsession, a way to regain lost innocence?, for Fred, Season Five Wesley starting to show great promise as some kind of a wizard and therefore somewhat alpha, though I personally think actual Wes is too unstable, needy, and clingy for Fred. What do you think?

[Nina]

I don't hope that we will get a Fred/Spike pairing, pure because I would love it when they become best friends. Spike needs a real friend and right now, I think that Fred is the best candidate. Besides, Fred was already in love with Angel, Gunn, Knox and Wesley in the three seasons that she was in Ats.
Which brings me to my main problem with Fred, her relations are never equal because she jumps from man to man, where Wesley waited for her since season 3. That doesn't change the fact that Wesley & Fred are my favourite pairing for Fred, but I prefer Wesley & Lilah more than Fred & Wesley.

I'm all for Fred being single ... or a Fred who will in a relation with Wesley but not another lover.


If Fred wasn't half in a relationship with Wesley and didn't spend the last seasons dating and crushing on all the male castmembers ... I would like a Spike and Fred relationship more. It's the first relationship with Spike that feels healthy and honest to me, so I can see the potential.

[Enisy]

Let them develop the Wesley/Fred relationship a bit more, especially if they do it through an Illyria/Wesley/Fred triangle. We barely even saw a glimpse of Fred's feelings in Season 5 of Angel, or, for that matter, the foundation for her feelings.

Agree with Nina about Spike/Fred being the icing on the man-eater!Fred cake. Amy Acker even joked about it in the commentary of A Hole in the World. 'Sides, Spike's feelings for her seem totally platonic to me after his casual "Tons. Loved the bird." line.

[Boltmaiden]

I loved Fred and Spike's friendship but I didn't see it developing into more. I always wanted Wesley and Fred, but I enjoyed Fred's crush on Angel as well. I wasn't really into her and Gunn and could of cared less about Knox. Of course my feelings about Knox as a character changed all together after what he pulled but that is not for this thread

I truly think that Wesley and Fred would have continued to be happy together and that Fred's habit of switching partners would have ended.

With Illyria in the mix now I do not know what will happen as far as love triangles are concerned but whether there is a Spike/Fred/Wesley one or a Illyria/Wesley/Fred one or whatever, I think I could enjoy any of the combinations.

[NileQT87]

i want wesley/fred/illyria. and i want fred to conquer illyria with her feelings, emotions and memories. the astronaut beating the caveman. what would really be interesting if illyria has trouble seeing where it ends and fred starts. it would be

and i'm dreading spike/fred/illyria... because it's like giving us gunn instead of wesley, when everybody wanted wesley/fred together back in season 3! it would be, once again, just a way to put off her going to wesley--which is what people have always ultimately wanted.

if anybody is second man to angel, it's wesley. spike is important, but on ats, it's wesley who almost matches angel in dramatic importance.

and i was rooting more for angel/fred than angel/cordelia. but fred belongs with wesley.

[sherrilina]

The whole Wesley/Fred thing seemed forced at best, for Wesley an obsession, a way to regain lost innocence?, for Fred, Season Five Wesley starting to show great promise as some kind of a wizard and therefore somewhat alpha, though I personally think actual Wes is too unstable, needy, and clingy for Fred. What do you think?

I think you're on to something there about the alpha male thing, and I agree that the Wes/Fred thing seemed pretty forced, especially when she had so recently been flirting with/falling for the Knox....it was like, she seems him do that spell, then suddenly starts approaching him, after being not interested for so long....I don't think her love for him ran that deep, or that it really even had a chance to given how quickly she was killed off after her change of heart there....I've never been a big fan of Wes/Fred for that reason.

I don't know if I'd like Fred/Spike either (that would seem a little extreme, lol, after all the other guys! Though I did think their interactions were cute!), and since Gunn (my partner of choice for her, who I do think was the best one for her as a lover, who I think she loved best) doesn't seem to be an option I'd go with her being single right now...

and i'm dreading spike/fred/illyria... because it's like giving us gunn instead of wesley, when everybody wanted wesley/fred together back in season 3! it would be, once again, just a way to put off her going to wesley--which is what people have always ultimately wanted.

Speak for yourself, not all of us hated Fred/Gunn, or want Wes/Fred! In fact there's a fair few people who don't like Wes/Fred at all, let alone "have always ultimately wanted" them together--that's like saying most fans have "always ultimately wanted Bangel" It's just not true, even if it's true for some or a fair number of people....

[ilovewesley]

Fred/Illyria/Spike Fred/Illyria/Wes

Where does this leave us? Well the writers of Season 6 can opt for Wes and Fred's souls fading happily away into a heaven dimension or we can see another dramatic parting. Wesley can fade away and Fred continue life as a Fred/Illyria Siamese twin. I hate that I have to wait until May 28th for the next After the Fall chapter. One thought. Back in Season Five, just before Fred's collapse on the stairs, Lorne told Fred and Wes to get a balcony, meaning Romeo and Juliet. If I remember my Shakespeare, the tragedy was that Juliet took something that gave her the appearance of being dead, unfortunately Romeo, believing she was dead, committed suicide to be with her. She woke up shortly afterwards and finding him dead, also committed suicide. If Fred is actually the other half of Illyria then that puts the end of Angel#6 with Fred as Juliet finding out that Romeo/Wes is already dead. Will Fred commit suicide to be with Wes? Nope! Fred is a survivor.

[vampmogs]

Honestly Spike and Fred hugging in 'First Night' did seem to have a romantic vibe for me, rather than a platonic one. But Lynch has already stated that we're not really getting any romance in Ats: After the Fall so it'll never be developed. They'll stick with the Wes/Fred/Illyria triangle, which I agree needs to be finished before they could stick Fred with someone else.

Honestly, I like the interaction between Spike/Fred more than I do any of his other relations, and that's including Buffy and Angel, by far. I think she brings out the best sides of Spike, and she wasn't some "ditzy school girl with a crush" she makes that pretty clear, she even was aware to the fact that he may have been trying to play her a little in the beginning but she wanted to help him because it was the right thing to do. Ever since then I liked it. So I wouldn't say no to a platonic relationship between either of them or them becoming a couple, but I don't really think this is the right time for that to play out.

[ilovewesley]

Honestly the one person Fred does not work with is Wes, even if he does consider her the girl of his dreams. Wes never learned how to handle his emotions, they were liabilities for any good "watcher" or what the council deemed a good watcher. Girl of his dreams, what Wes loves in Fred is the idealized lady fair of knights of old. Romantic, but not really very down to earth. Ironically, she actually brings out the worse in him. He is willing to help her commit murder(Professor Slidell) or to go psycho on his best friend Gunn, just so he can get the girl. Fred had more chemistry with Willow then she ever had with Fred. Wesley had more chemistry with Illyria then Fred. I honestly could see him a better match with Willow or Faith or Buffy if they were an option. They aren't, Wes is dead and will most likely stay that way and I don't see any crossovers in the near future. What I do see is Angel, Wes, Spike and Lorne do whatever they can to rescue Fred and get her out of hell.

[ThePoet's<3]

I don't think they will go that route either. I like a Fred/Spike friendship - with loads of respect and admiration on Spike's part.

However - if TPTB go that way I won't mind. But I like Wesley/Fred more.

[Curiouswolf]

The thing about Fred being anyone's lover in ATF is that there are several indications that she has become insane because of sharing her body with Illyria. Now, Spike has been involved with crazy chicks before such as Dru and season 6 Bi-Polar Buffy but that was when he was soulless and evil or morally ambiguous at best. I doubt Spike would take advantage now that he's a soulled champion. However, there's that one line in issue #3 where Spike comments on the Angel smackdown to Spider saying "It's not what it looks like, I learned that the hard way..." So, who knows ?

I'll also point out that Wes is a ghost who can't even do any Phantom Dennis or GhostSpike tricks since he's under the control of the Partners. That doesn't leave a lot of potential for Wes/Fred there, less than Buffy season 3 B/A really. He can't even give her spongebaths like Phantom Dennis did Cordy.