What about that Wolfram and Hart contract?

[ilovewesley]

I am confused. Is the Wolfram and Hart standard perpetuity clause just a convenient plot device to have an excuse to bring Wesley back? The only name we ever saw on such a contract of the Fang Gang was angel's. Wesley told Angel in Origin that he sold them out to Wolfram and Hart. Does this mean that Angel sold his friends' souls to the Senior Partners to save Connor?
Was it an act of desperation and he thought he would find a way of of it later? Does the contract mean that the Senior Partners get to send the Fang Gang to hell? I think in Jossverse it means that the Senior Partners reserve the right to bring back anyone under contract to work for them but I don't think it means actual damnation unless the Partners really really don't like them. In Angel after the fall they tell Wesley that they will incant back a zombie Lindsay if Wesley doesn't cooperate. It seems to imply that Lindsay's soul wound up wherever it was fated to go after death, presumably hell. After all Lilah said once she did this one task for the Senior Partners she was going straight back to hell. Maybe Wesley was in a heavenly dimension and they lured him out of there with a fake Fred? Or maybe Fred's soul was floating in the ether, Wesley found her, but when Illyria was transported to hell Fred's sould was sucked back into her original body. That means she is still corporeal and has a form of life and Wesley is only able to cling to this plane of existence because of the infamous Wolfram and Hart Contract. This is just about driving me nuts? Any thoughts?

[KingofCretins]

If you want to be technical, it was a convenient plot device to bring Holland Manners back.

Wesley was probably just being dramatic when he says Angel sold them out to Wolfram & Hart. For one thing, at the time he said it, he didn't have a lot of the relevant memories. I've never been a big supporter of Angel's memory wipe spell being all unilateral, but I wouldn't be surprised if everyone had to sign such a contract.

[Andrew]

That was actually my biggest problem with Wesley's return. Either Angel's contract tied the entire Fang Gang's souls to W&H which I don't think Angel would do, even for Connor, or the entire Gang individually signed contracts later on without noticing the perpetuity clause which is stupid since they've seen Manners and Lilah trounce about post mortem and would know to watch out for it. I don't think any of them would take the W&H deal if they were to have the clause.

</rant>

I take it that it means that a W&H employee's soul/spirit is W&H's property to do with as they please. Meaning that they can pull any of their employees out of their afterlives at their own discretion or even deny them an afterlife. The whole concept is a bit muddy though...

[vampmogs]

I think they would have all signed individual contracts, which included this. Wether or not they read the fine print is debatable, but they'd be rather silly to have not to.

[Nina]

I don't think that Angel would sell the sould of his friends to evil powers, because if he did ... they will need lots of ret-cons, writerfiats and fanwanks to make Angel not an absolute jackass. He already played with their minds ... that was enough grey area stuff. And I don't think that the 'mind rape' was the reason why they signed. Besides, they all knew what would happen when they signed the contract, they all saw Lilah in 'Home' and she explained why she was 'back'. Wesley tried to save her, but he found out that there was no chance to do so ... all before the signing. And not to forget, Angel just stopped Jasmine because he wants people to have a free will ... I won't believe it if Angel sold his friends out.

I think that blaming Angel because his team signed the contracts and sold their souls, is the same as blaming only Angel for the hell situation in AtF. They knew the consequences and they had a choice, they did it ... now they've to deal with it.

[ilovewesley]

Maybe the problem is that the perpetuity clause was never fully defined. If you look it up on Wikipedia under Holland Manners, Lilah Morgan, and Wesley it implies everything from immortality to eternal damnation. Looking at it from a business point of view I would guess it would mean that the Senior Partners had the right to call back into a deceased employee back from the grave at their discretion. If the Fang Gang signed individual contracts they may have thought that the Senior Partners wouldn't want their services since they are the "good guys." They may have felt that they reported to only Angel. I think that Wesley would have signed anyway if only to follow Angel. Sometimes I think Wesley suffers from "delusions of Watcherhood," and thinks of Angel as his "slayer" and of himself as angel's watcher. Jossverse nevers explains everything or belabors a point, sometimes the beauty of Jossverse is that it leaves it up to you and makes you think. One thing that did come across beautifully in Angel After the Fall #5, it that when push comes to shove everyone has Angel's back, the only exception is Gunn, who has lost his soul. The love that Buffy and Angel characters show for each other, when they are not busy betraying, infighting, and berating each other, always shines through, it is the one thing about Jossverse that I just love!