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  • "I wanna see how it ends."

    Angel's story ... how does it end? Do you want to see him die, do you want to see him fighting until the end of time or do you want a happy end. And how does Angel feel in the end, is he happy? Is he broken? Is he finally the hero?

    I want to see Angel who is free, free of guilt ... free of people/gods who say what he should do. And that he is accepted by the world, and more important that he made amends with himself and that he is happy. I don't need the happy end with wife, childeren and a dog for him (I''ve nothing against it, as long they won't write it like JK Rowling wrote HP's happy end.) ... as long he finds peace, I'm good.
    Nina
    and her haircut.
    Last edited by Nina; 10-04-08, 02:10 PM.


  • #2
    I've had many different versions play through my head at different times, each being my favourite for a short time, then another takes its place

    Being Human:

    Of course everyone's thought about this, and well in 'After the Fall' we've seen it happen. It was something Angel always wanted, something he fought for, and I think he does deserve a happy ending because he's had such a horrible life, in particular throughout the last few seasons.

    Being Human and with Buffy:

    Seriously, didn't even cross my mind when watching Ats until I read an article at the time the series was ending, with a pic of the two of them and the writer stating his disappointment that it didn't look like he'd get this ending. And it got me thinking, not because of Buffy, not because I'm a Bangel or not a Bangel really, but I must admit I like this idea because again, it gives Angel a happy ending, an ending he wanted.

    Keep on fighting:

    I've considered it, and being the selfish mad fan I am it makes sense for me to want this because basically, I want more Angel stories.

    Angel dying:

    Mmm.. it's got that whole tragic vibe which is perfect for Ats, but I really ain't sure about this. Self sacrificing himself to make an amends once and for all could be tragic and amazingly moving at the same time, and since the demise of Cordelia and Doyle it'd be fitting Angel bows out as well... but I just don't know. It's so bleak

    ~ Banner by Nina ~

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    • #3
      Originally posted by vampmogs View Post
      Being Human and with Buffy:

      Seriously, didn't even cross my mind when watching Ats until I read an article at the time the series was ending, with a pic of the two of them and the writer stating his disappointment that it didn't look like he'd get this ending. And it got me thinking, not because of Buffy, not because I'm a Bangel or not a Bangel really, but I must admit I like this idea because again, it gives Angel a happy ending, an ending he wanted.
      That just hit me, we are always talking about Buffy and who she is going to end up with. But for Angel there is one real option now Cordelia and Darla are dead. Only Buffy is still there of the women he loves so much and I doubt that the writers will put a new great romance in his life between now and the end. If Angel wants to end up with Buffy and Buffy ends up with somebody else, it's a very sad end for him. And somewhere Angel needs to end up with a wife because that is his dream, the only thing he never had. I just wrote that I don't need a page with a happy end for Angel, but if he ends up as a normal guy ... he needs a family I guess.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Nina View Post
        That just hit me, we are always talking about Buffy and who she is going to end up with. But for Angel there is one real option now Cordelia and Darla are dead. Only Buffy is still there of the women he loves so much and I doubt that the writers will put a new great romance in his life between now and the end. If Angel wants to end up with Buffy and Buffy ends up with somebody else, it's a very sad end for him. And somewhere Angel needs to end up with a wife because that is his dream, the only thing he never had. I just wrote that I don't need a page with a happy end for Angel, but if he ends up as a normal guy ... he needs a family I guess.
        I agree. I mean the whole Bangel vs Spuffy aside, and even who Buffy would want to end up with, looking at this entirley through Angel's eyes it would be kind of sad if he didn't end up with Buffy, now that, like you said Cordelia is dead.

        ~ Banner by Nina ~

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        • #5
          To be honest I'd like an ending reminiscent of To Shanshu in LA. Something less bleak than NFA that gives Angel hope without making anything to finite. I want Angel to continue to balance purpose and hope, with the possibility of shedding the self imposed curse of his self-hatred. He should find thi whether he is a vampire or a human. To me the Shanshu was always a representation of what he wanted, with it's advent being almost meaningless in itself (well to Angel).

          I'd like there to be a clear indication that this 'figurative' Shanshu of sorts was within his grasp without him actually possessing it and with it comes a peace born out self-discovery and understanding. I've always thought Angel could give this to himself better than a prophecy or a certain Slayer could.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by kana View Post
            To be honest I'd like an ending reminiscent of To Shanshu in LA. Something less bleak than NFA that gives Angel hope without making anything to finite. I want Angel to continue to balance purpose and hope, with the possibility of shedding the self imposed curse of his self-hatred. He should find thi whether he is a vampire or a human. To me the Shanshu was always a representation of what he wanted, with it's advent being almost meaningless in itself (well to Angel).

            I'd like there to be a clear indication that this 'figurative' Shanshu of sorts was within his grasp without him actually possessing it and with it comes a peace born out self-discovery and understanding. I've always thought Angel could give this to himself better than a prophecy or a certain Slayer could.
            You've got me thinking. What I'd actually love to see is Angel having the curse removed, he could still be a vampire, should he revert to form in 'Atf' but he could eventually live a little more and be happy without feeling like he needs to brood. I think that'd ultimately open up so many doors for him.

            ~ Banner by Nina ~

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            • #7
              My problem with that ending would be that Angel still hates vampires, and hates to be one ... in 'Angel' he ever said that he wanted to kill them all ... that would be a nice ending, Angel making the world vampire free ... but I guess that won't happen, at least not by his hand.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Nina View Post
                My problem with that ending would be that Angel still hates vampires, and hates to be one ... in 'Angel' he ever said that he wanted to kill them all ... that would be a nice ending, Angel making the world vampire free ... but I guess that won't happen, at least not by his hand.
                I see your point. I just thought it could be a nice message for the series, that it doesn't matter who or what you are, as long as you're a good person who's happy and is good to yourself and others. I think it'd be a nice moment for Angel to be happy in who he is, to embrace that he's a vampire, but be given some of life's pleasures that his curse prevents him from experiencing.

                But then.. I'm a sucker for the whole Shanshu turning human ending. I still think the big twist in 'After the Fall' will be that Angel was in fact Shanshued. He assumes he wasn't, the majority of fans do too, so I think it'd be one hell of a sweet reaction for both character and fandom alike after a revelation he actually was Shanshued. No one would be expecting it after he sent LA to hell.

                ~ Banner by Nina ~

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                • #9
                  I like the message as well but I don't know if it's possible, Angel dreams of a real family, become a human is his holy grail and humanity is the most beautiful thing in the world for him ... I really need to be sure that there will be a moment that Angel will be human and have a family for his own. I guess that I'm also member of the 'sucker for the shanshued Angel' club. Maybe I need a happy ending anyway.

                  I already believe that this is his shanshu, it would fit perfectly in his unlucky and ironic life, finding out that he is human while he jumping of a building in hell.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Nina View Post
                    I already believe that this is his shanshu, it would fit perfectly in his unlucky and ironic life, finding out that he is human while he jumping of a building in hell.
                    Uh huh, it'd also subvert everything about his heroes journey if we learnt he did play his role in the apocalypse, on the wrong side, like Wolfram and Hart wanted all along.

                    Then on the other hand it could be his reward for being willing to sign it away. Wether you agree with his stand in 'Not Fade Away' or not, I think in that particular scene he deserves brownie points for being willing to give up his own happiness for what he believed, was more important than that.

                    ~ Banner by Nina ~

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                    • #11
                      We don't know if he did what W&H did, Wesley suspects that W&H lost control and that another power took over. We don't know what happened. But I don't think that this was planned by W&H actually, I think that Angel and his free will made a mess of their plans. So, I'm no fan of his plan in NFA, but I think that W&H aren't fans either.

                      The signing away was for me the biggest sacrifice of a character since Buffy killed Angel in becoming. He gets lots of cookies for that action.
                      Nina
                      and her haircut.
                      Last edited by Nina; 10-04-08, 04:48 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Well, I was thinking that I'd really like an ending similar to "Not Fade Away", because I honestly think that was the most perfect ending for the series that was possible. But after reading kana's post, I'm leaning more towards "To Shanshu in L.A." I just really love that scene-- Angel and his crew may be beaten down, and they may be small in number, but they've got each other, and they've got hope, and that's all that matters.

                        You'd need to fit Connor into Angel's ending somehow-- Angel loves him more than anything, and if he's gone, there is no happy ending for Angel. At all. I was watching "Inside Out" recently, and it made me think about what Connor will be like when he actually does have a kid (assuming he lives that long). I kind of think a nice ending would be with Connor handing his little baby to Angel-- totally accepting Angel's role in his life, and trusting him. But then again, it's still not really Angel's, because the baby would still be Connor's before his....but then again, maybe that helps cement Angel's status as a loner while still giving him a family.
                        The story's kinda bland. It's about this guy named Dumbledore Calrissian who needs to return the ring back to Mordor.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nina View Post
                          The signing away was for me the biggest sacrifice of a character since Buffy killed Angel in becoming. He gets lots of cookies for that action.
                          I still remember my older sister's reaction to that scene. I'd already seen the episode when it first aired but when it aired for the second time on Fox (before the DVD's were available) I asked her to tape it for me when I was at a high school thing during the evening. My sister actually rang me, to tell me that Angel had just signed away his chance of being human and how sad it was, and how amazed she was he did it. This is a girl who never really cared about Ats, she finds it dull in comparison to Buffy, and she's never been so invested in either series or their characters to react in such a way. But somehow this scene really got to her, ever since she's been far more favourable to Angel's character.

                          I can't help but think of that when I watch that scene, I love how it managed to touch people in different ways.

                          It is possible however, that whoever is the one pulling all the strings behind this, such as leading Angel to believe Spike had killed those innocent people, will have also been the one to teleport Angel from the battle and turn him human. Apparently the mystery individual is revealed in Issue 10.

                          ~ Banner by Nina ~

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                          • #14
                            I agree with Mogs about the investment in Angel's journey whether he's human or not. I think there is an interesting concept in his current humanity being the Shanshu prophecy transpired.

                            Like Connor who was born to bring Jasmine forth, I suppose it doesn't matter what happens to you but what you do with it. No matter what the fates step in and do, as long as Angel is alive (or undead) he can do what he likes with his existence, whether he chooses to be a champion or whether he retires or perhaps (and this is an option if he remains human) become a full time soul saver and leaves the warrior bit to Connor, Buffy etc. I've always read Angel's role and an advocate for the human condition whether he wields a weapon or not. His humanity, whatever the nefarious reasons behind it's transpiration, may be an invaliable tool of education for him, whether it be permanent or not.

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                            • #15
                              I don't want a second Not Fade Away, but at the same time, I don't see how the final, "that's all folks" ending can be anything else. Like Joss said, the series is about redemption, and that's something you fight for every day. That does not jibe with "closure". (Which, by the way, is my least favourite prospect for an ending, especially if we're talking human, married-with-two-kids-and-a-dog Angel. But I'm pretty confident that Joss has too much dignity and too much intuition/knowledge about what makes stories "tick" to go there. As opposed to a certain miss Rowling.)

                              (set made by Francy for me)

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                              • #16
                                The end?

                                Gah - that is really a hard question.

                                I can`t really see him as a human that will settle with the white picket fence, and a 9-5 job. Even if Buffy is around. Cause that really means he has stopped fighting, and he might endure that for a few years until he starts to brood again - this time for other reasons.

                                What I would hope is perhaps this:

                                Angel finally getting rid of the curse, and finally accepting himself as what he is. A man-pire, fighting on the side of good. Stopped brooding, with a good relationship with his son and the ability to be part of his life.

                                But.. I really can`t see ANY happy ending for him other than the peace that would come with the dusting.. really.

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                                • #17
                                  dusting isn't peace. it's hell. that means a human soul is either headed where angelus is headed (hell) or back to the ether (a state of nothingness--limbo).

                                  and i think you should pick up the comics. angel's dying doesn't mean dusting right now.

                                  i want to see something happy, i think. angel is the ultimate punching bag for the jossverse. and believe me when i say i am a glutton for angst and tragedy (hence why i love him, wesley, etc... so much)... but i also think it would be a message of hope if he somehow comes out of this getting what he wants in life. i think connor is a must, for sure.

                                  but i think it also goes back to the very things angel's been talking about since the beginning of btvs--the things he wants and the things he always kept talking about for buffy (though, in many ways, he was probably talking about the things he would like as a human--what human means to him--you never know what you've lost until it's gone). and yeah, that inner bangel in me would also like to see buffy return to opening her heart back up--returning to who she was before the angel experience closed her off from ever truly being able to love again.

                                  and if not buffy, i think i would want darla. why? he started his journey with her. and she really got dealt a bad hand. connor having both of his real parents finally would be powerful for him and his suffering. and darla--the idea that she could finally be loved, cared about, etc... would finish off her arc even more than she was able to in the trial and lullaby. and inside out is begging for more to be seen between connor and darla.

                                  either darla or buffy fit that "back to the beginning" idea. i think that's most appropriate for both buffy and angel.

                                  "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                                  "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

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