Holtz/Justine

[Obsessed]

I've been watching Season Three for the past few days and I was wondering if any of you thought that Holtz loved Justine, did her care for her or just used her? Clearly she had feelings for him...

[kana]

I'm actually not sure. I believed he cared for her and for Connor but vengeance consumed him. I'm not sure if he told Connor about Justine but he seemed to tell him the details of their dream in Utah and Connor seemed to trust Justine pretty quickly. Not sure about this one.

[Dorian's Kitten]

When Conner recounts the plans about Utah he noticeably leaves Justine out. I don't think Holtz was capable of caring for Justine, he was just too consumed by thoughts of revenge. I don't even think he actually cared for Conner. If he had he would not have had Justine make it look like Angel killed him. He was just using Conner as a tool for vengeance.

[KingofCretins]

If Holtz weren't the complete badass that he is, I doubt he'd remember Justine's name if asked. Wesley read that relationship very well -- she was a slave, led around by her nose with Holtz leveraging her own need for vengeance to serve his.

[vampmogs]

I think this can best be summed up by how he throws Justine aside and makes way for the portal. Here we have a very physical representation of how Holtz viewed his relationship with Justine; she was disposable. We have Holtz with the baby and his eyes set on that portal, a way to get his vengeance after all those years of waiting for it. He shoves Justine aside for his goal and succeeds in his plan. I personally couldn't come up with a better scene to illustrate how Holtz really felt about her. Vengeance clearly meant more than any relationship he managed to acquire after being brought back.

[Cinderela]

I think this can best be summed up by how he throws Justine aside and makes way for the portal. Here we have a very physical representation of how Holtz viewed his relationship with Justine; she was disposable. We have Holtz with the baby and his eyes set on that portal, a way to get his vengeance after all those years of waiting for it. He shoves Justine aside for his goal and succeeds in his plan. I personally couldn't come up with a better scene to illustrate how Holtz really felt about her. Vengeance clearly meant more than any relationship he managed to acquire after being brought back.

That's the exact same thing I was thinking all along - but warnings screamed at the TV didn't help Justine at all! Holtz just used everyone and everything that crossed his path. Didn't turn out too well in the end for him, tho.

[kana]

It's interesting that Holtz believe he was corrupted when he was talking to Justine.

Holtz: I'm not asking you follow me into hell, just help send me there.

[Obsessed]

Then when Holtz returned- he once again tricked or lured Justine into making his goal a reality by letting her think he had affections for her, right? The bedroom scene- it indicates that he felt something but really, it was just another ploy- I guess. I always felt there was some kind of chemistry between them- yet it was just the thirst for vengence that drew them together. Even though Justine seem to have feelings for him later on or perhaps she was just lonely into thinking she loved or needed him.