Angel season 3

[buffyholic]

So, I?ve finished season 3 and I would like to hear opinions on it.
Personally, I think it?s weaker than season 2 and season 1. Don?t get me wrong, there is a lot of great stuff in here and I love it. But there some things that didn?t agree with me. I?ll explain better:

Cons:
- A lot of average episodes. There were great episodes but nothing beyond that. No episode that I say:"Holy crap, that is just outstanding". They didn?t excel very much and as I said, a lot of average ones. Every season has them but this one had a lot of those and those were weaker than the average ones of the other seasons.
- Character development was few, aside from Wesley. I feel they focused too much on plot(the plot was a little messy sometimes) and the characterization was a little pushed aside.
- What the hell did they do to Cordelia?? Enough said.
Pros:
Wesley, Wesley! Man, his journey was amazing. His three episodes were pretty good and he learned the hard way what a hero is.
- I liked Lilah a lot here. I think she really shined this season.
- The introduction of Fred was good there. She was a character I like a lot.

Still, the season was amazing, even with some flaws. Pretty good drama and I could rate it, it would be a B.

I?ll have my ratings of the episodes later.

[NileQT87]

watch lullaby, waiting in the wings, sleep tight, forgiving and a new world again if you think they were all "average". there's nothing average about the season at all--and season 4 is just as amazing--this is ats at its peak.

and this season is just chock-full of those "holy crap!" episodes (com'on, not even the ends of lullaby, sleep tight, forgiving and tomorrow?).

and ats is very plot- and character-focused. if you hate a plot glut--you'll probably hate season 4--whereas season 3-4 are my favorites (personally, i think cordy improved in season 4 even though most people have the opposite opinion--season 3 post-mexico is pretty yuck).

there's nothing average about season 3. angel, wesley, darla, connor, holtz, lilah... a LOT of amazing stuff.

and oh, yeah, keith szarabajka has an amazing voice. especially the "hands" speech.

[buffyholic]

NileQT87, I think I didn?t explain myself very well. I mean "averages" not in a bad way but I just mean that the episodes are a little weaker than those in season two, imo. And don?t get me wrong, I think the season rocks but there a few things that don?t click well. And you?re right, Lullaby and Waitings in the Wings and even That Old Gang of Mine are amazing.
Let?s start with the episodes:

Heartthrob - B
That Vision Thing - B+
That Old Gang of Mine - A
Carpe Noctem - C
Fredless - B
Billy - A-
Offspring - B
Quickening - B
Lullaby - A
Dad - B
Birthday - C
Provider - F
Waiting in the Wings - A
Couplet - B+
Loyalty - A
Sleep Tight - A
Forgiving - A-
Double or Nothing - B
The Price - B-
A New World - C
Benediction - A
Tomorrow - B

But I still love this season. So, don?t get me wrong.

[buffyholic]

I know this is about season 3 but I?ve just ordered season 4 already.
So, any opinions?

[Nina]

Season 4 is my favourite season, I hope that you will enjoy it as well.


Season 3 was a good season, but the episodes which were part of the arc were much better than the stand alone episodes. But Holtz was great bad guy, Wesley's arc is beautiful and daddy Angel is adorable. Saint Cordelia was the only character I didn't like this season.

[buffyholic]

Hey, Nina, since the season is your favourite, can you tell what should I expect from it? I?m really hoping to see Wes embrace his dark side more....

[Nina]

You'll definitely see a dark Wesley, it's a very dark season with fantastic episodes, great villians and very nice guest characters. It's one big arc without the classic structure. And the acting is beautiful, Alexis, David, Vincent ... they really show their best acting in this season (Amy is great as well, but season 5 is her season to shine).

It's also the grey area again, it's nice to think about the season after you've seen it.

[buffyholic]

Is there a lot of debate about Angel seasons as much as in BTVS? I?m not too aware of that, since I haven?t finished Angel.

[Shin]

Is there a lot of debate about Angel seasons as much as in BTVS? I?m not too aware of that, since I haven?t finished Angel.

It's a bit like Buffy, there are a few camps. Season 4 & 5 are really controversial seasons. With a lot of people it's love or hate and I've seen a lot of hate on S4 (I love it though), mostly from people who love season 5. People that like S4 a lot, usually like S5 less too. S2 is usually seen as at least one of the best season by most fans and S3 as the weakest. S1 is a hate or love thing.

[buffyholic]

Tell me about it! I?m a season 1 lover. I just love the character development and the episodes. And the beginning of a little family.
I have to admit that I?m looking forward to seeing more of Angel.

[vampmogs]

I don't like s1 at all. I'm doing a Ats run through at the moment and just cringed at some of the discs when I knew I had to get through some of the episodes... 'Expecting' 'She' arghhh.... It has some good episodes, 'City Of..' 'Five By Five' 'Sanctuary' but for a whole season it doesn't impress me very much at all.

And I'm not as big of a fan of Ats s2 as some either. It has some fantastic episodes, I love all the flashbacks and the Angel/Darla storyline, and it's even more amazing when Dru appears on the scene. But the way that all ends for the season, I mean Darla and Dru just leaving, hardly epic, and ending on Pylea which feels like it isn't even in the same season.. well I thought it was pretty disapointing really. Some of the best eps for the series but looking at it as a season in whole, it kind of fell flat IMO.

I adore s3 and s4 of Ats, I think this is Ats at it's best. I think it got a lot darker and gritty, I love the stunts, love the storylines, and love all the characters (aside from Connor.) The only problems I have are how saintly Cordy turns after Mexico, just very unrealistic.

S5 was great too, but I'd happily sacrifice Spike if it meant getting Cordy back and Eve for Lilah without a doubt.

[buffyholic]

So far, I find S3 to be the weakest. I love Lilah, Wes here is just amazing, Fred, Angel?s arc is very good here and I like Holtz and Darla. But there?s a lot of episodes here that are a little weak. The arc episodes are very riveting and exciting but some of the standalones are weak.
About Cordelia, thank god I?m not the only one thinking that S. Cordy is just boring. I?m not morbid, but I loved Cordy with their visions that could kill her in an instant. It gave her character a lot of thought and depth, watching her struggle with the visions and still trying to lead a normal, human life.

[NileQT87]

time to cue up season 4. it's not all as shiny and celestial as it last appeared.

[Boltmaiden]

It's been a while since I watched any Angel and therefore am very fuzzy on a lot of episodes and when different major events took place but I can tell you that though there are many positives that I could talk about in season 3, Holtz and Darla as Buffyholic and Nina already said, and I am a huge Fred fan...however it is because of the route they took in season three that actually made me stop watching Angel for a season.

I was appalled at where they began to take Angel and Cordelia's relationship..it literally made me feel ill and there was no way that I would accept an Angel/Cordelia pairing.

Angel's reaction to Wesley's betrayal. Maybe I am all alone here but that Angel understood why Wesley did what he did and still could not forgive him and tried to kill him yuck..i had a really hard time with that. It set up Wesley for an very interesting journey and gave Alex a chance to shine which was great and I did love the development of Wesley but was always still bothered by Angel's reaction and his treatment of Wesley from there on out.

Though I eventually came back to Angel in season 5, this decisions in season 3 forever changed how I viewed the characters and the show and most of it was not in a positive light.

[Nina]

I never had a problem with Angel's reaction towards Wesley. Wesley betrayed Angel and the rest of the team, Wesley didn't trust Angel as a father and stole his only son. Connor is in a hell because of what Wesley did. And as far as I can remember, Wesley never said 'sorry' or something like that. I think that Angel was really nice towards Wesley, he forgives him in less than a year for something what is unforgivable IMO. Angel understood why Wesley did it, but that doesn't mean that Angel has to forgive the man who kidnapped his son. Don't forget that Angel had to join W&H, deal with a screwed up kid, he was locked up on the bottom of the sea and he had to 'kill' his son ... all because of Wesley and his little mistake.

I never hated Wes for what he did, but I can see why Angel isn't cool with it. If Wesley stole my kid and I had superpowers ... I would have done a lot worse and I would probably not talk with him like everything is okay, in less than a year.

I'm with you about the Cordy & Angel thing ... it felt forced to me.

[buffyholic]

I don?t feel Cordy and Angel forced, I think it was natural. They?ve been the best of friends forever and rely on each other for everything, maybe it was something that couldn?t be helped. He loved Cordelia but not more than Buffy. Buffy is always his everything. But I love Angel and Darla?s connection even better. What I feel is that they ruined Cordelia for me. Since they made part demon (a bad choice, imo) they took all of her depth and development out the window.

[LaJaula]

I felt that the Angel/Cordy stuff in Season Two was fine-- I think that you can see hints of Angel's feelings for Cordelia as early as "Epiphany", and definitely all throughout Pylea. So, really, I didn't have a problem with Angel realizing his feelings for her in "Billy". But from there on out, I think it went downhill. The stuff in Angel's life got too huge-- his ex-lover, whom he hates and who is evil, is now pregnant with his child, and it might be a demon hellspawn or it might be the one thing Angel cares about more than anything in the world, and he's got to protect it, but now Connor's gone, and everything is gone-- and you can't throw an office romance into the mix there and expect it to mean something. On the huge scale of things, whether or not Cordy goes out to the movies with him this Friday doesn't really register.

So the writers didn't make it matter, which is both good and bad. It's good that they realized that Angel had other, larger concerns, but also bad because they would randomly try to revisit the Cordy/Angel romance in some episodes. It felt out of place and forced then. Also, I don't really think I ever saw Cordelia's feelings for Angel be anything more than friendship until "Tomorrow", and then it was so over-the-top that I couldn't stand it. She has this revelation from out of nowhere, and instead of thinking, "Wow, I guess my feelings for him may be a little bit more than I had thought," she says, "I'm in love! With Angel!" Too much, too soon. They should've either worked her into in more gradually, or had their meeting on the beach be a casual thing as opposed to the Declaration of True Love.

That being said, I still 'ship them. I don't know why. I guess I can overlook all of that because I like their relationship in all of the other seasons. (And by that I mean the Angel --> Cordy dynamic in S4)