Connor

[Vampire in Rug]

Thought I'd make a thread to discuss the character of Conner.

I'm loving the way he's written, I think the character has real potential. I'd love to see more of how the sane, superhero kid deals with the psycotic, inapropriatly erotic memories of his old self.

Lorne mentioned Connor in the last issue. Lorne shouldn't remember Connor (as far as we know). I hope this is addressed and isn't just a goof.

Brian Lynch has confirmed that Spike knows that Connor is Angel's son. Apparently Connor sees Spike as an uncle figure. I wonder what it was like when they first met. Would Holtz have encountered Spike?

I wonder how Conner reacts to Illyria being the death of Fred.

[Nina]

I fell in love with his character since season 5. In his first 2 seasons I understood him and felt sorry but I felt so bad for Angel that I couldn't like Connor. But now ... I love him.

I once stated that he is my only real champion. He was maybe confused about Angel, Cordelia and Holtz but he was always fighting evil and saving innocents. Only in the last episodes of season, he was so broken that he didn't save people anymore. But he never hated his life because he was different, he never wanted to do evil things with his powers or turned evil. Connor was against Angel, but in the grey area ... there isn't good and evil.
The moment he finds out about his powers in season 5, he wants to be a 'superhero' and help people. He is not disgusted or afraid, he is ready to give up a lot to save people. And he did it in AtF and that makes him a fantastic person IMO.

And again, I've to point out how fantastic Vincent Kartheiser is in this role. Can you imagine to have a bad actor in this role full of emotion, confusion and pain?

[kana]

Connor definitely saw himself in Angel and this caused all sorts of fun dissonance considering what Holtz told him. I definitely want to see more of the feral conflicted Connor or at least have his issues dealt with a bit more. A Connor centric issue would satisfy I'm sure.

EDIT: I actually read a fanfic where Connor was in therapy between Origin and NFA. It would be a nice bit of continuity to mention his surrogate parents (unless they were mentioned and I missed it, only up to issue 4)

[LaJaula]

In his first 2 seasons I understood him and felt sorry but I felt so bad for Angel that I couldn't like Connor.

See, it's interesting, because for me, I felt so bad for Angel that that made me love Connor. I love Connor because Angel does.* But as the season wore on, I loved him for him-- the saddest thing for me is the idea that he was never under Jasmine's spell, but that he loved her because she was the only thing that ever (in his mind, anyways) accepted him.

And again, I've to point out how fantastic Vincent Kartheiser is in this role. Can you imagine to have a bad actor in this role full of emotion, confusion and pain?

I think he did an amazing job with the role. His scenes with Cordelia in the church are phenomenal-- he manages to convey all of Connor's pain and confusion so well, and he doesn't even have anyone else to work off of.

I wonder what it was like when they first met. Would Holtz have encountered Spike?

I doubt it, since Holtz was....preserved long before Spike was even born. The only way I guess Holtz could have heard of him was during his history catchup, but it's doubtful-- for one, Spike was only with Angel for 18 out of 249 years and thus not very important, and also, I don't think Holtz got "Two Centuries of Angelus", since then he'd know about the soul. And even if he did know of Spike, I doubt he'd tell Connor.

I think that Illyria would have to be present during their meeting for each of them to figure out who the other was. Either that, or Connor would have to see Spike helping someone, then go vamp-face, and realize that, like Angel, he was a good vampire. And maybe he'd mention that he knows Angel....but I think Illyria's presence is far more likely. I hope we get their meeting in "Spike: After the Fall", because I imagine Spike's reaction would be priceless.

*This logic does not apply to Dawn. Sorry, Buff.

[ally]

I love Connor. He is my favourite, and I think some of that comes from how frustrating I found the arcs in S4. I resented Angel (and the writers) for where they took Connor and how they treated him so it made me all protective.

I'm really glad he's in S6, and that he's actually doing things, and has a story of his own and isn't just a secondary character. I also want to see a bit of a back story, we can't just have well-rounded Connor with no conflict, thats where half the appeal came from! I'd love to see him working through erotic memories and all the crazy psycho stuff he thought. I'd love to still have a bit of uncertainty about Angel, and to see them have to reconstruct (or construct in the first palce) an actual father/son bond. Which come to think of it I think we are seeing that, what with their trying to impress each other, and Angel putting him in charge of the people etc.
I also like the development between him and Spike (not just because it will stir up more rivarly between Spike and Angel) but because I think father(uncle)figure Spike would be really interesting, and was touched upon with Dawn and Spike as her protector.

I want to see some more Destroyer Connor also. He should really be in his prime in this hell!

Oh yeah, I totally forgot that Spike never met Connor as Angels son. I really hope they include that, how fun!

[Electro-Gwen]

I have to be honest, I find Connor actually quite annoying!

I like him in s5, and the last episode in s4, but just because he' sort of out of the picture.

I think the character was well constructed, but I also think he really didn't give Angel a big enough chance. I mean, Angel tried really hard to get to know his son.

I loathe thewhole Connor/Cordy thing, and that killed my likeness for both characters (Cordelia in particular).

I think Connor could be a really awesome interesting character to me, but I really don't like the whiny-ness and the hard done by attitude.

[Sacred Knight]

For most of the time I felt pity for him. He was so out there emotionally and otherwise that it was hard for me to really like him in seasons 3 and 4, but knowing he had really good reasons for all the issues he had made me sympathize with him. I never outright disliked him because of this, because I knew he had reasons beyond his control for turning out like he did.

I never even blamed him for the Cordy thing. Even before I knew Cordy was possessed I blamed solely her for that whole sick thing.

I really wish we'd seen more of him in season 5, because that Connor I liked on all levels. He was basically Angel minus the brooding and with a lot of humor, I loved that. Its why I'm looking forward so much to seeing more of them in the comics. It was a relationship I really wanted to see more of. Like Angel fixing Connor's collar before he went to kill Sahjhan. Priceless.

[ally]

My only problem with S5 and onwards Connor is that I never forgave Angel for the way he treated Connor in S4, and so I really want to see some resolution between the two. I don't want their whole history to be swept neatly under the rug so the writers can bascially re-write Connor to be the son that everyone expected. This show is all about the past, lets see some proper broding!

[Sacred Knight]

Angel rewriting Connor's past was his way of making things up to him, at least that's the way I always took it, right alongside him proving his love for him. When Connor regains his memories later, he tells Angel he understands and is grateful for what he did for him. To me that was resolution. I didn't see it as much as sweeping things under the rug as much as I saw it as Angel taking the only means he had left to save his son. Connor was absolutely broken at the end of season 4. There was no coming back from that, his horrendous experiences he had his entire life had culminated and exploded when he killed Jasmine, and there was no repairing that by normal means.

I do think they cheated by removing the core characters' memories with the exception of Angel's however. In regards to Connor's character, the route they took was the only plausible way left to save him without killing him off, and I liked that. Connor was cheated out of a normal life which every child deserves, his life filled with more deception and torment than most receive in a full lifetime, and Angel gave his life back to him the only way he could. But I felt it was a disservice to let his impact on everyone else be lost. So I was disappointed again when all was said and done, only Wesley's memories were returned to him (Illyria I don't really count, the memories of Fred's that she has access too were unlocked as well but it meant little to her anyway).

[ally]

I agree with you Sacred Knight. But the whole memory problem gets me stuck. If we go by the belief that memories help make who you are Connor now has a whole heap of memories of feelings of hate towards his father - 18 years worth. Even though he is now more level headed and stable to deal with these feelings, and he has new memories of happy family fun, he can't just ignore everything that actually DID happen. Plus, Angel never got new memories, and he can't just have happy Connor without at least having worries that scary Connor is lurking somewhere beneath the surface. That whole S4 arc was so intense that they can't just ignore it.

I don't agree with the writers using new memories as a way to fix everything. It's a massive cop out, and I understand that they didn't have much moving space with the end of that season but they should have realised that earlier so they could have steered it in a way that didn't involve a memory wipe that basically undid everything that had happened in the series. How simple is that??!!

[Sacred Knight]

I get what you mean. The way Connor explains it, the real memories that were unlocked are more like a dream to him. So there's probably some disconnect there. Here's an example; I remember a few months back, for no particular reason, I had a dream that my brother and I got into a pretty big argument. In the dream I was fuming at him, and when I woke up that morning I could still sort of feel those feelings, even though I wasn't mad at him for real. Then of course like any dream it faded within seconds. That could be the way things are with Connor, his memories of hating Angel and wanting him dead are there but disconnected like a dream, so that the feelings can't climb to the surface and actually breathe.

Though your questioning of Angel possibly worrying of the old Connor coming to surface I think is a very interesting question, and not at all far-fetched to imagine. In fact it would've made for a great episode at some point had the show continued.

As for the memory wipe I always thought it would've been better had Vail's spell not affected anyone within Wolfram & Hart at the time (just the LA branch). You cook up a reason why, and right there Joss had his way to give Connor new memories and alter everyone else's while keeping main characters' memories intact.

[LaJaula]

Spoilers for After the Fall:

Spoiler:

It seems like the mindwipe is now removed from everyone-- not only Wesley, Connor, and Illyria, but also Lorne and Gunn remember Connor. So, if has totally been removed due to Vail's death, does this mean that Willow and Faith, over in Season Eight Land, also have their memories back? If it happened for them the same way it did for Wes, Illyria, and Connor, they would have frozen for a moment before their memories came rushing back (Although, for each of them, it would only be a few days worth of memories instead of a couple of years or, in Connor's case, a lifetime). I realize that this would've occurred before Season Eight began, but it would be neat (although it's highly unlikely) if it were mentioned in the comics somehow.

[vampmogs]

Admittedly I wasn't a fan of Connor at all until 'Not Fade Away' really.

I get the pity, he would have had a horrible life growing up in Quortoth and Holtz raised him to hate Angel so I understand the initial feelings he had towards him. But I think there was a point where Connor really showed a pretty horrible side to him, that was never really explored IMO. Aside from the fact that he opted to punish Angel for eternity by sinking him to the bottom of the sea instead of just dusting him, it was how he reacted to Fred when Jasmine was around that really made me dislike his character.

Connor was the only character not under Jasmine's control. He saw her for what she was as it was later revealed, and whilst all the other characters have an excuse for trying to kill Fred because they were under her control, Connor offered to "bring back her scalp" even though, he was fully aware of what Jasmine was. He doesn't have the excuse the others do, Connor was fully aware of his actions and he did them anyway. He was willing to kill and bring back the scalp of someone he knew was good, someone who took care of him for three months. It was never really addressed, and it's a pity it wasn't, because it showed a really ugly side of Connor that was never fully explored.

And then of course there's how utterly foolish he can be at times, the guys prone to manipulation, to the point it becomes rather absurd and just annoying to me. I mean c'mon, killing the blood of a innocent virgin girl? Why would anyone still be following EvilCordy after that? That was the last straw on what really was, something he should have put a stop to a long time ago.

In 'Origins' I began to like his character more but I didn't find it believable how he reacted to the supernatural world, seemed a little silly how easy he was to adapt to it, and I didn't care for his humour or mannerisms really, I think it was a case of Vincent more so than the character, his delivery of the lines grated on me a little. But in 'NFA' I did honestly like him, and I really like him in 'After the Fall.'

I find that in Atf I'm enjoying him a lot. I loved how he didn't give Angel the crap Spike did about sending LA to Hell, or the feelings Gunn has towards Angel. Because it wasn't all Angel's fault, Connor actually helped Angel win the battle against Hamilton and send LA to hell, though his part is the most minimal out of everyone's.

[Sacred Knight]

In 'Origins' I began to like his character more but I didn't find it believable how he reacted to the supernatural world, seemed a little silly how easy he was to adapt to it, and I didn't care for his humour or mannerisms really, I think it was a case of Vincent more so than the character, his delivery of the lines grated on me a little. But in 'NFA' I did honestly like him, and I really like him in 'After the Fall.'

I know its been a while since this thread has had a reply but I was watching "Dad" earlier and immediately thought of Connor's reaction, or lacktherof, to his re-introduction to the supernatural world in "Origins". I don't think its all that out of character. His first day on earth he couldn't stop crying, and it was Angel's vamp face that soothed him. He is human and he is ensouled but right from birth Connor had a communion with the demon world, and to me it makes a lot of sense that being reintroduced to the dark parts of the world as a teenager with new memories would harbor a different reaction than that of a normal human being. It was his nature as a newborn child to not be scared but calmed by the face of a vampire, as its his nature as a teenager to take the revelation of demons and true darkness in a lighthearted, almost flippant manner. I don't know if that had any part to play in the way Vincent played that, but nonetheless I think it in reality ends up playing very true to the character.