Season 8 vs After the Fall

[Nina]

Okay, this is a really unoriginal poll, but I can't help myself.
I was doubting in which board this poll should be posted, I picked this one but I'm not sure if this is the correct one. But this board was still a little bit empty and here can be talked about the comics without spoilertags.


But okay, season 8 or AtF.


I prefer AtF. Partly because I enjoy the Ats characters more than the BtVS characters. But AtF uses all the characters every time, and there happens so much more. Although, I prefer the BtVS art.

And human!Angel is more interesting than 'maybe corrupted'!Buffy IMO. Twilight is a great bad guy but it can't beat W&H/lords of LA/vampire Gunn/Spider.

[Enisy]

Maybe this belongs to "General Discussions"? It's pertinent to both Buffy and Angel.

Anyway, I voted for Angel: After the Fall. No contest, even. Better writing, better characters (who also look their age in the art), tighter plot, and some of the best plot-twists/cliffhangers in the 'verse.

[tangent]

It's hard to compare the two for me.

I like the darkness in ATF. the idea of it all taking place in a hell dimension. I also like the way it's being taken forward. I think of the two ATF is the more original scenario and the plot twist at the end of the last issue was propbably the biggest you could hope for but it still fits with Angel's overall mythos really well.


Buffy8 is a different kettle of fish. It's not hitting us as hard with single issues but seems to be weaving a lot of disparate strands together. It's going to be hard to judge it until it all pays off i think. The thing i like about season8 though is that while ATF strikes me a being a very novel treatment of what's gone before that is taking us in a brand new direction season8 is taking the new situation and making it seem very familliar. In a way I think Season8 is more reminiscent of the original show, and i think that's deliberate after what Joss & co have undoubtedly heard a bout fans reactions to season7.

So to wrap up the ramble i would go for equal but different.

[Enisy]

In a way I think Season8 is more reminiscent of the original show, and i think that's deliberate after what Joss & co have undoubtedly heard a bout fans reactions to season7.

Funny you should say that, because I'm hearing the exact opposite from some factions of the fandom: that it's like Season 7 v2.0, that we have to deal with more Potentials, that the Scoobies are even more isolated (especially Willow and Buffy), that Giles and Buffy's relationship is never going to be repaired, that Buffy's behaviour is even more questionable than it was last season, etc. It's not a view I share, but I've heard it from quite a few people.

I think of the two ATF is the more original scenario and the plot twist at the end of the last issue was propbably the biggest you could hope for but it still fits with Angel's overall mythos really well.

Chris Ryall says the cliffhanger in Issue 5 will be bigger. Brrrr...

[Nina]

Just an OT-question:

Is issue 5 the last issue before the mini series about the first night?
In that case, I would probably die after the cliffhanger.

But I guess that the cliffhanger is about Angel going to fight all those lords.

[Enisy]

Yep, First Night starts after Issue 5. And I doubt the cliffhanger will be as simple as that.

[NimNams]

For me, it's as big win for Season 8. Though I like the Angel universe, I've personally found both the writing and the art to be confusing. Sometimes, the dialogue makes perfect sense. At other times (i.e. throughout all of issue 4), I find myself losing track of what these characters are talking about, as if I've somehow missed huge plot points or something. The art is...well, perhaps it's better not to say anything.

Buffy Season 8, on the other hand, has given me that "Welcome Home" feeling from the get-go. The art is cleaner, the colours work to help the inks instead of blurring them, and the likenesses are close enough that I can follow along at home. The writing is, of course, excellent. It's not entirely like it was on the show, but it is a different medium, and as such, a different way of conveying the story is needed. And I've gotta say, having a comic book master like BKV write an arc is never a bad thing.

[sueworld]

I read both, but if I have to choose I'd say I prefer AtF.

I adore how tightly packed and free flowing the series is, and how authentic the characters voices are, unlike Season 8 which I have to say seems to be dragging a hell of a lot of the story out, and in the end is on the verge of boring me sadly. Also as weird as it may seem I think Brian has a better grasp of Buffyverse characters...yeah I know, work that one out!

[NimNams]

Also as weird as it may seem I think Brian has a better grasp of Buffyverse characters...yeah I know, work that one out!

Actually, I don't think that's a strange thought at all. Joss is used to writing these characters for television. That's in no way a guarantee that he'll have as much success transferring them over to comics.

Personally, I think BKV's arc felt more 'Buffy' than anything Joss has written to this point. It makes sense, since BKV is a comic writer first and a television writer second. For Joss, it's the other way around. It could even be argued that Joss is first a television writer, then a film writer, then a comic writer. Three different mediums, requiring three different skill sets. No one can be perfect at everything.

[Heather]

I read both Season 8 and After the Fall and I honestly think that it's a tie between the two for me.

After the Fall has a fantastic story and the writing is very spiffy. I enjoy the voices of the characters, the quick movement of the story, and the shocking plot-twists and cliffhangers. It's a much more...enthralling read. However, it does have the occasional confusing tidbits where I don't understand what the characters are talking about (for example: I didn't know whether or not Angel's opening narration in AtF #1 was about Fred or Cordelia). Also, I absolutely loathe the art. All of the female characters look the same to me, the coloring is messy, and it all looks very amateur to me. The artist does, however, have a grasp of Angel, in my opinion, since I do think that he is drawn the best out of everybody. I just hope that the artist changes throughout AtF's run because the preview pages for "First Night" look phenomenal and are done by, in my opinion, far superior artists.

Season 8, however, has amazing art. The characters may not always look like they do in real life, but you can definitely tell who is who. The coloring is cleaner and the details are amazing. Plus, the facial expressions of the characters are all so realistic and perfect (unlike in AtF, where I feel that everybody is stuck with either a robotic, emotionless expression or a wide-eyed and open-mouthed angry face). The story, however, is moving very slowly and I'm not as hooked by the situation at hand (at least, not yet). I do understand, however, that Season 8's story needs to be stretched out for 40 issues, but I think that Joss could've developed a tighter, faster storyline that lasts that length. Though, on a positive note, I think that the writers who have worked on Season 8 so far have a firm grasp on the characters and the feeling of the show because it all definitely does feel like Buffy.

I guess that I might like Season 8 more, but I'm not really sure yet. I think it's far too early for me to know for sure.

[vampmogs]

that we have to deal with more Potentials,

Seriously though, are people just immediatly resistant to them from the get go. Because so far what isn't to like about Satsu, what has she possibly done to make anyone hate her? She's no Kennedy.

that the Scoobies are even more isolated (especially Willow and Buffy),

I personally think the difference her is that they're isolated because it is called for in the story, and they make a big deal out of that isolation. The isolation in season seven was due mainly to the fact the writers seemingly forgot Xander existed at all, and never bothered to give Buffy and Willow any screentime together. It was never in the story that they distanced.

that Giles and Buffy's relationship is never going to be repaired,

On who's authority though? Does someone know something we don't? Who's to say it won't be repaired? a LOT of people were claiming it was a lame wrap up to their problems in 'Chosen' .. probably the same people who are complaining that there's still conflict there.

Personally, I couldn't vote. The two are very different things. Ats is faster but it's gonna be, Btvs is spread over 40 issues and is having one huge arc, if Ats started when Btvs did now, we'd almost be at the end of the series. After the Fall has a lot more to cover in a much shorter space of time, Buffy's working on a huge canvas.

[Sacred Knight]

I'm actually kind of leaning towards After the Fall right now. Which is kinda unusual for me because concerning shows, I've always put Buffy on a pedestal over Angel. I mean I love Angel don't get me wrong, but I've always had more invested in Buffy.

However I'm really enjoying this LA Hell storyline, and dig the cool twists they keep throwing at us. The only thing I don't really like is the art but it's alright enough.

With that said though I'm not really feeling the big complaints with Season 8, and I think the latest "twist" which is getting a lot of negative attention in the latest issue is only going to serve to make the storyline better as it goes on. I think considering how much longer Season 8 is going to be than After The Fall, ATF is just getting off the ground much quicker and moving along at a more desireable pace. On the other hand Season 8 is, as I see it, in the middle of only laying the foundations for what the season is going to entail. So its serving as a lot of set up right now rather results.

[ThePoet's<3]

I read both but AtF is my favorite of the two.

First - because my favorite character moved to Angel - Spike. Spike was the reason I watched Buffy the TV series and now I prefer AtF because that's where my favorite character has moved.

Second - Brian Lynch - with the exception of Brian Vaughn is without a doubt one of the best writers! I fell in love with how well he writes Spike's voice and mannerisms. (he stll casts Spike in a light I'm not 100% please with - too much Angel influence he needs to re-watch Destiny and see Spike kick the stuffin out of Angel. Mybe he will get a new respect for him.) But hands down he is the better writer..

I'm enjoying the storyline of AtF at this point. And I guess because there will be less issues of AtF than S8 the story seems to be going somewhere. Kinda like when the creators of LOST finally said - "We will produce 4 seasons of the show and that's it." It has helped them to "tighten" up the stories and the impact has been awesome!

I feel the same way about AtF. It's as if there is a definite and deliberate direction for the story to move.

I will say the exception is the Faith-arc from Buffy. But again, that storyline has to do with my second favorite character.

I do like the Twilight story but wish we didn't have to go through the entire social awareness issues of Joss Whedon.

Ditto to Sue's comment about BKV having a better understanding of the Buffy characters than their creator...(

[Vampire in Rug]

he stll casts Spike in a light I'm not 100% please with - too much Angel influence he needs to re-watch Destiny and see Spike kick the stuffin out of Angel. Mybe he will get a new respect for him.

To be fair, Angel has beaten Spike plenty of times in the past. And even though Spike defeated Angel in "Destiny", Angel did put up quite a fight. What do you mean by "too much Angel influence"?

I agree that "After the Fall" is the better series. Brian is a great comics writer and the story just seems tighter, and better planned. We get more plot in each issue.

I don't mind the artwork in "After the Fall", but I must say I prefer the artwork in season 8. That's just a personal preference though.

The one area where season 8 blows ATF out of the water is the covers to each issue. The covers to season 8 have all been amazing, the ATF covers have been pretty mediocre IMO. But in terms of storytelling, my vote goes to ATF.

[Veverka]

I'm surprised at the results so far- for me, major shock aside, Angel is doing nothing to keep me hooked.

Buffy, on the other hand, every issue has me completely feeling the whole spectrum of emotions, I laugh aloud, I gasp, etc.

[Wolfie Gilmore]

I felt that ATF got into its stride quicker - the first few issues of the Buffy comics felt a bit like one of those foals trying to learn how to walk, and having too many limbs (read: charaters/stuff going on) to be able to work out what to put where.

I've never been as much of an Angel fan as I am a Buffy fan, so in a way, that makes me less judgemental about it, because I don't care so much. I enjoy it as a romp of a read, with fights and vamps and OTT stuff like talking fish. I think some of it touches on interesting themes - Gunn's vampirism, for example, and the parallels with Angel's humanity - but on the whole, it feels a bit more straight up and down and linear. More like a blockbuster novel that keeps you reading but doesn't necessarily touch you in the stirring places of your soul.

That all got a bit weird.

Anyway, the Buffy comics are flawed and patchy...and yet, I'm much more involved in them. They really picked up for me around the chain, and with the Faith arc, they had me. They do some very funny stuff (though, the ATS comics are funny too, but more in a funny lines way I think, rather than using the comics medium to full funny advantage). The scooby reactions to Satsu and Buffy, for example. Or Andrew's facial expression when playing strip poker.

I think the moral questions and personal tensions in season 8 are more interesting than the ATF stuff. But, ATF has a dragon, so...that makes it a closer race

[KingofCretins]

Overall, I've been enjoying Season 8 more, because it does feel like a "season", you know it's a long arc from the start. But, I've gotta say... I think "After the Fall" really does more work to really capture the imagination.

Consider this -- each comic has now had a major plot development, teased beforehand.

In "After the Fall", it was Angel

Spoiler:

*turning into a frakking human being after this being, for years, the defining objective motivation of his entire character arc*.

In Season 8, Buffy

Spoiler:

slept with a girl.

I mean... ouch. When you put it that way... ouch.

[LaJaula]

I'm enjoying AtF more, and I think it's because it feels more like Angel than Season Eight does like Buffy. Also, I think it's because I'm more invested in the AtF characters than I am Season Eight.

Spoiler:

Angel's a human. Gunn's a vampire. Wesley is incorporeal. Illyria is going crazy. Spike's in charge of rescue missions. Connor's a superhero.

Really, to me, this is taking these characters that I've known and loved for years in entirely new directions, and exploring totally different, yet still in-character aspects of themselves. Season Eight so far just feels like a rehash of the UPN seasons. It does have potential, though, and I realize that we're really only a short ways in, but at this point I'm favoring AtF.

[Dorian's Kitten]

Great poll. I was actually just thinking about this earlier. I was surprised when I realized that I am more involved emotionally in ATF. I've always preferred Buffy, but...wow. Aft is just more intense and fast-paced. Also there's Spike.

I do however prefer the art for season eight.

I will continue reading both-at least for now, but Buffy has not been as exciting for me lately. (With the obvious exception.)