Something in them or something done to them?

[kana]

This thread is about Billy Blim's ability to make men into misogynist.

Now admittedly I would find it disturbing to believe that all men have a innate hatred towards women.

1
Lilah theorising isn't so far removed from Faith's all men are beasts speech. It almost posits that all men have the same base drives with different levels of restraint. The misogyny is there but how it manifests depends on the man.

Where does this leave Angel?

Angel claimed something similar and that he was immune because he no longer that that hatred that the Billy brought out in others. Hmmm. We know Angel can feel rage, even petty rage but why is he specifically immune to misogyny if others are not? Perhaps the psychologically disposition he has a vampire with a soul renders him immune, with all he's been through. Not very satifying though.

2
Fred believes that it was something done to them. In other words Billy transfers his own misogyny onto other men. Different men express it in different ways but it is not something innate. Wes's insecurities made him question his status as a good man. No doubt the feelings of inadequacy were outwardly directed and focused toward Fred when Wes himself wouldn't consciously nor subconsciously do the same thing had he not been under the spell.

I guess I want to believe in the second theory because I believe well many men can feel the same insecurities that Wesley felt it does not equate to a fundamental hatred or fear women which I don't think exists not even in the verse at least not in itself. What Billy does, is bring such frustrations and feelings and have men direct them at women when in actual fact the frustrations that lie within do not have a single face but with many men they cannot tell the difference.

I also like to believe that Angel was immune simply because he was a vampire but because of some deeper mental benevolence. I just don't find it satisfying and we'd need more evidence of such a disposition.

So what do you guys think?

[Nina]

I prefer the second theory, because it made more sense as that every man hates women. When we use the second theory, we know that Angel is immune, just like in Earshot when she couldn't hear was Angel was thinking. It's a vampire thing.

But another point is Angel's view on women, he was bored with the noble women in 1750. He didn't want to marry a woman because she was rich or pretty, he wanted love and a woman who could think and care for herself. He saw women as equals in a time that women were less as the men. Besides the feministic Darla would never sire a man who can't accept her as an equal. Angel is an alpha-male but he always respects the women in his life. And this is for the most characters normal, because of this time, but for somebody who is born in 1727, it's a big deal I guess.