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  • The Girl in Question

    One of the last episodes of Ats,

    It's one of the worst episodes ever IMO. I like the funny lines, but it's like the writers (Steven S. DeKnight & Drew Goddard) have never met the characters (But hee, Drew also wrote the OOC episode; LMPTM). Do I've to believe that Angel is acting like a little boy in Rome when he is planning to take the Circle of the Black Thorn down? With a crazy Illyria walking around in LA? The worst moment is the scene with the crying Angel.

    I love the CEO of W&H Rome, and I like the relationship of Angel and Spike ... and their lines are hysterical. But the whole Andrew shuts them u... awful, he already did that in 'Damage'.

    But back to the OOC;
    Angel is so stupid, it's not funny anymore. And the moving on, in the end ... and the 'locking Buffy up' plan? It made Spike and Angel look like two of the most pathetic men ever.

    And the stupid joke of Spike's duster? He is okay with a fake? Poor Robin.

    Spoiler:
    And the whole making fun of Angel by Andrew (and Giles? Buffy? Xander?), I hated that part. I'm happy Buffy isn't the second Paris Hilton, but making fun of somebody who wants to save/warn you? It's very low. That immortal guy is clearly not a great guy, he is the Don Corleone of the demons, or something like that. And Angel was pathetic, but he didn't deserve this smack down (Not after his help in Chosen and Damage).



    But anyway, I saw that here are people who like/love TGiQ, so I'm curious to read the other opinions about TGiQ.


  • #2
    I think the point of it was that Buffy, decoy or not, wasn't *in* any real danger that she couldn't have handled, and Angel and Spike damn well knew it. Warning her was always a pretense. They weren't being noble or helpful, they were being petty exes. Joss himself said during the "Chosen" commentary, Angel is never more fun than when he's being petty.

    Personally, I like contemplating this episode in the context of Season 8 -- makes me feel pretty certain that the Immortal's people had nothing to do with what happened to Angel's spy getting beat up. I think it's almost certain that it was Andrew's Slayers that spot someone tailing their 'asset' and they sent a message.

    I don't blame Goddard and DeKnight -- the episode itself was a bad idea, and poorly placed in the middle of the Illyria/Black Thorn arcs.

    It's probably better that Spike have a coat that's just a coat and not a Slayer-skin coat.
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    • #3
      I just adored this episode. I never get why so many seem to dislike it so. Although after saying that I can't but help notice that more of the two main shipper groups seem to dislike it more then anyone else.

      Spike and Angel come across as two grumpy old men, and I love them even more for that.

      A truly wonderful episode with some brilliantly funny lines/scenes in.

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      • #4
        For me, the real value of the episode was back in LA.

        Or if you're *cough*Spangel*cough*.

        They could have spent the entire episode on Wes and Illyria and the Burkles and that would have been fine.
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        • #5
          I didn't enjoy this one. I can see why some might like it, and if it had taken place earlier in the season, I wouldn't have any problem with it. Thing is, we were in the middle of a serious story and all the momentum of it was in LA, and they interrupted that to give us a goofy story set thousands of miles away. King's right, there is some value in this episode with everything involving Illyria and company, but I felt the rest really deflated a lot of dramatic tension they had done so well to build up at that point.

          I'd also argue that a specifically Buffy-centric episode (especially one where we don't even get to see Buffy) has no place this late in the season (perhaps even this late in entire series run, but you could have gotten away with it as a throwaway episode early in the season). It's one of the reasons I was so glad "You're Welcome" was rewritten for Cordelia.

          It was kind of nice to see Darla and Dru (and I suppose Andrew as well) one last time, but I don't feel any sort of nostalgia factor is worth pissing an episode up the wall for. Overall it felt like a waste.

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          • #6
            Yes, it was placed a little too late in the season. But personally I wouldn't have missed it for the world...



            "Ciao!"



            "Is Angel crying? "No....not yet."



            Angel and Spike 'moving on.' *g*

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            • #7
              [Emerges into the world after a few eons wandering through different hell dimensions.]

              I rather liked the episode, but to me, the interest was Illyria/Wesley/Fred's parents.

              The parts about Angel, Buffy and Spike were mostly fillers, and somewhat long at that, so that I didn't like that much (I watched those parts waiting for the main story to come back).

              Of course, I realize that the intention of the writers may well have been a different one , and maybe I got the main story and the filler parts swapped (or maybe they were both meant to be important; I don't know), but that's how it looked to me, and it wasn't a bad episode (though there were other parts of the Illyria storyline I didn't like, at least that episode was interesting to me. ).
              Last edited by EvilVampire; 27-01-08, 11:31 PM.

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              • #8
                Sure the episode is funny but I have no idea why they decided to place it this late into the season and completely screw up everything they were setting up with the circle. The show was cancelled late into the season and we really hadn't been given a build up to what this Circle was and why it was so important. I can't believe they'd make an episode like this when they could have been setting up that storyline instead. Whilst parts of it was funny, Spike and Angel did act OOC in some scenes, and it did make both of them look pretty awful at times. Having Angel have someone spy on Buffy and have Spike express nostalgia for the coat he took from his victim really weren't their best moments at all. And really the first was for the sake of the story the latter was for a cheap laugh.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by sueworld View Post
                  Yes, it was placed a little too late in the season. But personally I wouldn't have missed it for the world...



                  "Ciao!"



                  "Is Angel crying? "No....not yet."



                  Angel and Spike 'moving on.' *g*
                  I know, I love it. It's a Spike Angel episode. Plus some Andrew.. I love a non arc funny episode. Plus I think they we're suppost to have Dawn there... and possible Buffy in the next episode which didn't happen. Found this post from Joss on whedonesque about it recently actually.. more to do with Andrews sexuality.

                  It has to be said: the Andrew scene in "The Girl in Question" was a victim of me dropping the ball. I specifically said there should be a party of men AND women, all glamorous and Italian, waiting for Andrew. I wasn't there when it was shot, and didn't have the time/money/energy to change it after the fact, though it made me crazy.

                  Andrew's sexuality is always on the cusp of self-awareness because Andrew is stunted emotionally and because it's hilarious.

                  [Side-note: The "people change" thing is a hold-over from the fact that the scene was originally written for Dawn (but Michelle turned us down). The idea was, there's little Dawn, then in the last scene there's hot grown-up Dawn going out on the town, a heavy visual support of people changing (since Spike and Angel always see her as older brothers do). But Tommy made it his own, 'cause he's Tommy.]

                  Oh, and speaking of Tommy, re: Buckaroo? Perfect Tommy was probably gay. How the girls did squeal, but that wonderful matching shirt and vest? Yeah. One man's opinion.
                  Last edited by alexa; 28-01-08, 02:12 AM.
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                  • #10
                    [Side-note: The "people change" thing is a hold-over from the fact that the scene was originally written for Dawn (but Michelle turned us down). The idea was, there's little Dawn, then in the last scene there's hot grown-up Dawn going out on the town, a heavy visual support of people changing (since Spike and Angel always see her as older brothers do). But Tommy made it his own, 'cause he's Tommy.]
                    Why does Joss hate me so? Seriously. He didn't have to tell me that it was supposed to be Dawn instead of Buffy because holy shite that would have been so much more awesome and probably would have added a level to the episode to make it so much better. Though think about how much Season 8 would have been changed if Joss had gotten MT to be in it. No faux-Buffy in Italy ... or Giant Dawn for that matter.

                    I'm pretty sure that Michelle was filming Six Feet Under at that time though and that is why she couldn't do it.

                    God I so would have liked to see grown up and suapah hot Dawn. She so got better in Season 7...
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                    • #11
                      This episode reminds me of Go Fish, which was also placed before the last two episodes of season 2. The bad placement of both episodes made fans hate them, even though both have good, memorable moments.
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                      • #12
                        I love Go Fish and The Girl in Question but as I'm sure most of you know by now I alays go for the comedy ones, although I have to admit I wasn't that keen on The Girl in Question the first time I saw it but there are some classic scenes like Spike and Angel fighting and Angel's new jacket. I think aswell as it being late in the season, it could be something to do with the comedy factor as a lot of the comedy episodes do appear to be the least faves with the fans such as Beer Bad, Go Fish and Band Candy.
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                        • #13
                          I did like the episode, but like a lot of people, I preferred to be in LA. I wanted to get back to what was going on w/ the Burkles! However, I will say that I had a couple laughs in the episode and petty Angel is always fun, but I was in the swing of the season and I always hate being taken from that. Granted, that doesn't mean I don't like the comedy eps. I just don't like to be taken away in the middle of a big emotional build-up just to get a few laughs. I always feel as if I've been torn away from a great novel just as I get to the last chapter. It's hard to get right back into the mix.

                          Now, I'm wondering if part of this was because what was going on in LA was so intense w/ the Burkles in town, that they thought we would need some relief from that. Just don't take my book away right as I get to the good spots!
                          It's blood...It's just like mine.
                          It doesn't matter where you came from or how you got here.

                          You are my sister.

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                          • #14
                            Other point:

                            Fred made a request before she died:
                            I need you to talk to my parents. They have to know I wasn't scared, that it was quick. That I wasn't scared.
                            We find out in TGiQ that her parents don't know she is dead. I know that it's difficult with the whole Illyria thing. But her parents knew about the demons and stuff like that. Fred asked Wesley to talk to her parents ... and a lot of episodes (which are days? weeks? months?) after her death, they still don't know.

                            It made me sad for her parents, they are so sweet and all, and they don't know her daughter is dead. They are so happy in TGiQ, the whole Wesley as son-in-law thing, the vacation etc. I think they deserve to know that their daughter is dead.

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                            • #15
                              They did deserve to know, it was Fred's dying wish afterall. This is yet another price of Angel and the others disconnect. Wes hardly even seemed ready when they were there. Angel could fill a library with what he doesn't tell people but I think Wes felt virtually incapable of telling them.

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                              • #16
                                So, is this the episode where Fred?s parents come to W&H? And Illryia disguises herself as Fred?

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                                • #17
                                  Yes, in this episode there are two plotlines, the first is in Rome with Angel and Spike being petty and the second is with Illyria pretending to be Fred to make Fred's parents happy.

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                                  • #18
                                    I liked the Illyria/Wesley plot line, the rest of the episode was terrible.

                                    It's funny because some of my favourite episodes are written Steven S. DeKnight and Drew Goddard; Damage, Calvary, Release, Origin, Lineage, Shells, Awakening.

                                    But this episode was just... really bad.

                                    A complete waste of the third last angel episode ever IMO.

                                    The Immortal is lame.
                                    The chase around Italy is lame.
                                    The Jokes are lame.
                                    Watching Angel and Spike fight over Buffy without her even appearing in the episode is INCREDIBLY lame.
                                    The entire Arc and pretty much every second of it (except maybe the Rome W&H CEO) is lame.

                                    I think I thought it was okay the first time I watched it but having watched season 1-5 5 times through now it's just a complete waste of space.

                                    (The Goddard and DeKnight episode 'Why We Fight' is another example of this, albeit less terrible.)

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                                    • #19
                                      I think S5 of Angel had a lot of Gratuitous sillyness... which is interesting, seeing as S7 of Buffy had an overabundance of dead-seriousness. Considering they're both created by the same man. I'm assuming it has a lot to do with the actors themselves, as I've concluded from watching bonus features on each of the DVDs that the cast of Angel seemed to mesh better.

                                      As for the Episode... If you take it out of context, It's lovely and a lot of fun. David Boreanaz is such a comical guy in real life, and past seasons of Angel gave little opportunity for his personality to really show. It was clear they were just having fun.

                                      However, on the other hand, I felt it was an insult to both Angel and Buffy's beginnings. Considering we spent several good years of our lives watching the relationship between Buffy and Angel/Buffy and Spike develope, disintegrate, and evolve, only to have it trampled all over in a single episode of Angel.

                                      But, in all honestly, S5 was an almost entirely different show than previous seasons...

                                      Anyway, that's my two cents.
                                      Giles: All we know is that the fate of the entire world rests on it. . . Did you eat all the jellies?
                                      Buffy: Did you want a jelly?
                                      Giles: I always have a jelly. I'm always the one that says "let's have a jelly in the mix."

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                                      • #20
                                        The Immortal is lame.
                                        The chase around Italy is lame.
                                        The Jokes are lame.
                                        Watching Angel and Spike fight over Buffy without her even appearing in the episode is INCREDIBLY lame.
                                        The entire Arc and pretty much every second of it (except maybe the Rome W&H CEO) is lame.
                                        Aww thats unfair. I mean the sight of two bickering 'old' vamps on a Vesper? Who wouldn't find that funny...*snort*



                                        "Hop on little Momma!"

                                        Call me lame then because I adored it all, and It was about time that both Spike and and Angel had some gentle fun pocked outta them in that show, and TGIQ did just that.

                                        Also it pocked fun at some of the more ridiculous elements of the whole 'shipper' side of the show. With both Spike and Angel coming off as equally obsessed with all things Buffy shaped.

                                        Apart from the Wes/Illyria section, this was very much a comedy episode and should be viewed as that. A last laugh before things got incredibly serious once more.

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